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? traditional muzzle loaders

wtroperwtroper Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭✭
I posted another question below. Refer to it for the background. However, assuming that I do not elect to hunt with a muzzle loading handgun, I would prefer a traditional rifle over an inline, but I would want a "good one." Since I am not at all knowledgeable of the differences between the various makers of traditional rifles, I would welcome an experienced person's thoughts on the various alternatives.

Thanks.

Comments

  • bull300wsmbull300wsm Member Posts: 3,289
    edited November -1
    Not sure what you mean by "good one" but my son has used a Traditions side lock for 4-H. He has come in third and tenth in state in traditional muzzleloading. This gun is very accurate and fairly cheap at 250.00. But I am trying to find a T/C Renegade for him to try...heard they were accurate as well and durable and made in the USA[:D]...Bull
  • HandgunHTR52HandgunHTR52 Member Posts: 2,735
    edited November -1
    wtroper - I would try to find a used T/C Renegade or Hawken and then buy a Green Mountain barrel for it. The Green Mountain barrels are very accurate and they are drop in fit to the T/C's. If you get lucky, you may be able to find one for sale where the original owner rusted up the barrel and is willing to sell cheap.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 32,922 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Get a used TC Hawken. Most guys are not interested in traditional guns anymore and you can get a good used one for half the cost of a new one.
    Just check the bore carefully and make sure it isn't rusted up.
    If it is rusted, like handgunhtr said, then you get a BIG discount, and you just buy a Green Mountain barrel for it. Takes about 45 seconds to change barrels.
  • rgergergerge Member Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have a bunch of side locks, and the best luck I have is with theT/C, personally I think they're more fun to shoot, my son really enjoys them as well. Right now on gunbroker there are several hawkens for less than $200.00 you won't be sorry.
  • wtroperwtroper Member Posts: 814 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for your thoughts. I am comfortable with TC's contenders & Encores. Had thought of a TC Hawken. Looks like I should try TC.
  • mbsamsmbsams Member Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have had a Lyaman Great Plains rifle for many years. It's excellent in looks and quality. Extreemly accurate too. It's a 54 with 1 in 60 twist and will shoot moa with iron sights and patched round ball with real black powder. I tried full patch 430 gr slugs too. Amazingly they went into 3 inches at one hundred. My elk load now. Give thay Lyman a close look - you can't beat them - I have a TC too - it's real good but not as good as the Lyman.
  • firstharmonicfirstharmonic Member Posts: 890 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    TC muzzleloaders are American made and come with a lifetime warranty, no matter who owns it. You could buy a new one, a used one from a friend or find one in the woods - it doesn't matter. That guarantee will be honored. Of course, that is not for abuse or improper cleaning resulting in a rusted or pitted barrel but for darned near everything else. And they're fine sidelocks.
  • dtknowlesdtknowles Member Posts: 810 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have two TC sidelock muzzle loaders I got from a friend as basket cases. They were going so cheap he just gave them to me. I reassembled them and shot them. One is a New Englander, has a shorter round blued barrel. The other is a Hawken with a longer browned octaganal barrel. The New Englander is real handy and shoots a three inch group at 100 yards and the rise/drop is predictable at the shorter and longer ranges. The Hawken shoots fine groups but the something is going on that makes it shoot higher at longer ranges instead of lower. It has a rough spot in barrel about a third of the way from the breach. I have since gotten a Savage 10ML and of course that is a different animal. Anyway, I would have sold off one of the TC's but the going price is so low as to make the effort, well not urgent.

    Tim
  • diver-rigdiver-rig Member Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You do know that inlines pre date sidelocks don't cha?
  • LeatherbellyLeatherbelly Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wt,
    Ever think a custom made muzzleloader would fit the bill? T/C's are just ok in my books.You get 'em cheap but that's what they are.You sell them cheap.JMHO tho.It depends on how much you want to spend.For me,I need a well made rifle that fits me.Nothing more frustrating then shooting an ill fit gun.If she don't fit,she won't shoot to full potentcial(sp).As with anything,you get what you pay for.An old friend told me once,"the cost is long forgotten when the value is still present."
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by diver-rig
    You do know that inlines pre date sidelocks don't cha?


    Care to elaborate??
  • diver-rigdiver-rig Member Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tony Knight worked several years for the Rock Island railroad company in Illinois. As times changed Tony was laid off and moved home to Missouri. Being an avid hunter and gunsmith, Tony opened up a shop in his home doing repairs and selling firearms. Several of Tony's customers had drawn muzzleloader Elk tags and had had bad luck with the inclement weather they had encountered during their hunt. Several misfires from there flintlocks had made for an unsuccessful hunt. After coming home and speaking with Tony about their hunt, Tony started working on a much more reliable ignition system that would retro fit their muzzleloaders. After reading several books and articles on muzzleloading Tony ran across an older 1800's version of in-line muzzleloading. From that article, Tony used his tools and knowledge to make the first modern day in-line muzzleloader in 1985. The MK-85 was named after his daughter Michele Knight. Tony's idea became well known throughout the next several years and he moved the company to Centerville Iowa where the company resides to this day. In 1997 Tony once again shocked the muzzleloading world with the Knight DISC rifle which has set the standard for all muzzleloaders today.




    http://www.cabelas.com/story-123/sigler_inline_muzz/10527/In-Line%2BMuzzleloaders%2BBuyer%27s%2BGuide.shtml

    The idea of the in-line wasn't new though. The basic concept has been around since the 1800's. Why it took so long for the idea to make it into the market is unknown. With the introduction of that first Knight rifle, many other companies soon followed with their own versions and a willing public readily accepted most.


    I'll keep looking. I've read somewhere back in the day, the first muzzleloaders were in-line. you ran a smoldering wick in the back of a rifle, "in-line" with the charge. Mr Knight just improved on it.. I'll keep looking.
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380
    edited November -1
    very interesting.

    thanks
  • mongrel1776mongrel1776 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    diver-rig --

    You're right about the early firearms -- it was basically a system of touching a wick or heated wire to the touchhole, much the same as firing a cannon. Then there was a sort-of prototype of the wheellock that is referred to as the "tannenbusche" (I think; my reference books are packed and I'm going on memory, always a dangerous path for me). The firing mechanism of this gun consisted of a serrated bar pulled out the rear of the breech, by hand, with a piece of pyrites rasping against it, creating sparks and igniting the powder. Both systems pre-date the first sidelocks, which were matchlocks fitted with a rudimentary hammer-and-trigger combo that was nothing more than a lever -- pull the trigger, lower the hammer, in one arcing motion.

    The irony of this sequence is that these early "in-lines" were very poor systems, impossible to aim and highly unreliable, and they were fairly quickly improved on and then replaced by the sidelock concept. My sidelock flinters, and the flinters and caplocks of the guys I shoot with, aren't going anywhere, so to say they'll be "replaced" by in-lines is far from true. The greater popularity of the in-line system is beyond dispute, though, so in a very real sense muzzleloaders have come full-circle.
  • diver-rigdiver-rig Member Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do realize that modern in line guns aren't the same. But the modern in line did get it's start in the 1800's. If that isn't old enough then I don't know what is.
  • mongrel1776mongrel1776 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by diver-rig
    I do realize that modern in line guns aren't the same. But the modern in line did get it's start in the 1800's. If that isn't old enough then I don't know what is.

    I was making the point that the idea is very, very old -- not arguing with you.
  • diver-rigdiver-rig Member Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    [/quote]
    I was making the point that the idea is very, very old -- not arguing with you.
    [/quote]

    I agree with you. Didn't think you were. Sorry if it sounded another way. Accually, I was just babbling I guess and not even directed to you.
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