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Flintlock pistol...UPDATE on brass barrel
steeltoe1978
Member Posts: 3,248
I'm looking to purchase a flintlock pistol for my younger brother (he's 23) because he recently saw an antique one for $6,000 in a shop and thought that it was really cool. This is the first time he has shown any interest in guns, and I'd like to help introduce him to a possible new hobby. I'm looking to spend up to $200 and I'd like to know what the best bang for my buck would be. I'd like to buy one that is new or NOS, preferably Kentucky style or similar and in .45 cal. What brands should I look for and which ones should I stay away from? Any input is appreciated. Thanks!
Comments
I had one in 50 cal a few years ago that was well made with a trouble free lock and was very accurate.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=100627527
The barrel is steel.
The brass is the triggerguard.
These really are beautiful pistols.
I want to get one of these pistols, and when a guy comes by riding a horse, jump in front of him, point the pistol at his head, and yell out "Stand and Deliver!" like the highwaymen used to do in England.
That is a good looking pistol steeltoe. Same one that Dixie sells but a lot cheaper and never fired, you can't beat that. Pedersoli makes good guns.
The barrel is steel.
The brass is the triggerguard.
These really are beautiful pistols.
I want to get one of these pistols, and when a guy comes by riding a horse, jump in front of him, point the pistol at his head, and yell out "Stand and Deliver!" like the highwaymen used to do in England.
It turns out that the one I bought is indeed the "brass barrel" version which some say is "rare" (but then again, anyone will say anything is rare these days to make a buck. Here's another auction for a brass barrel version that I bid on, but the price got too high. Once I get the gun in, I'll polish up the brass until it shines like the one in the pics in the below link. Also, it wouldn't be too hard to find someone riding by on a horse around here... we're not too far from Lancaster, and there's a lot of Amish there. [:D][:D][:D] Maybe we'll be highwaymen for Halloween... [:o)][:D][:o)]
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=99732565
I have never seen, or heard, of such a thing. I didn't know brass would hold up to the pressure. I am going to ask the expert, mongrel, about this.
Yeah, the Amish would be perfect to play Highwayman with because they don't carry guns. They probably don't believe in banks, ole Hans probably has a leather pouch with 100 gold crowns in his pocket.
Original brass-barrelled pistols are, as Pagan says, very collectable. I have no way of knowing relative numbers, brass versus iron or steel, in terms of which guns were made of what, back in the day -- but I have seen photographs of several very ornate pairs of brass-barrelled flintlock pistols, including two by a maker by the last name of Memory whose work, according to the text that accompanied the pictures, was not really considered to be of the very finest quality by late 18th-century English standards (the Manton brothers, Joseph Lang, and a few others were the standard by which others were weighed and found wanting), but was still jaw-droppingly gorgeous. Unfortunately the book (one of those big coffee table volumes, long on pictures, short on words, and containing more than a few factual glitches) is long-lost.
But, yes, there were brass-barrelled pistols, and at least one rifle (featured in Shumway's "Rifles Of Colonial America") with a brass tube. Theory holds that, in the case of the pistols, most often they were ordered by officers and other men of means connected with the various navies of the 18th century, real or imagined resistance to corrosion being the reason. Guns in general were built with heavy breech sections to their barrels, in those days, and pressures were relatively low, particularly in pistols, so safety wasn't the issue one might think; and the soft lead used in balls and bullets of the time (and today, if one is wise) wouldn't damage the smooth bores that were pretty much universal on handguns.
As stated, I would highly recommend the use of pure lead balls in the brass-barrelled Pedersoli in question, here. Since that's all you can really get in store-bought'n balls anyhow, this is really a non-issue, as is the need to keep powder charges small. Heavy loads in a gun like this will likely discourage extensive shooting before damage to the barrel becomes something to worry about.
It is still hard for me to believe.
Yeah, steeltoe, why don't you hold a magnet to that barrel, and give us the report.
It is still hard for me to believe.
Still waiting to hear from the seller regarding an address to send the payment to.... I'll do this and post the results for you all.
???
After a week he won't send an address to send the money to?
???
Just got the payment info. It's cool, as he stated in his first email that he wouldn't be able to get it to me until this weekend or early next week. It's his first sale too, but he's been in contact with me, so no problems. I should get it this week.
I knew from mongrel's report that they made brass barrels 200 years ago, now I know that the repro is pure brass.
It would make sense to have that pistol on shipboard, corrosion from salt air would be a beast on a steel barrelled flintlock pistol.
Dixie Gun Works carries a couple of Pedersoli .45 caliber pistols, and recommends in both a .440" round ball and .015" patch, over 25 grains of FFFg black powder. Being a flintlock, this is one gun that will definitely require the use of genuine black powder, rather than substitutes such as Pyrodex that will ignite reliably in percussion guns. Pyrodex needs a hotter flame to ignite (the reason it can be sold in stores such as Wal-Mart, whereas the much more volatile black powder calls for special storage and licensing that causes most stores to not want to deal with it) and a flinter as a general rule just doesn't generate enough spark. I've experimented with Pyrodex in my flinters, using it as main charge only and as main charge and priming both, and have never gotten anything remotely close to sure-fire ignition either way.
I'd be inclined to load 15 to 20 grains of powder and call it good, since this is a brass rather than steel barrel. Use the same ball/patch combo described above. I should point out, though, that I'm not much of a black powder pistol shooter and I've never shot a brass-barrelled gun of any sort. You could e-mail Dixie Gun Works (or call them -- info@dixiegunworks.com or (731) 885-0700) and ask what they recommend. The folks there are very helpful and if they pass along a piece of info you can be sure you're getting good advice.
Round balls, patches, percussion caps, and cleaning supplies are all fairly easy to find. If there's a Cabela's, Bass Pro Shop, Dick's, or other big box sporting goods outlet near you, they ought to have what you need. Your local gun shop (unless you're one of those unfortunates who's deprived of such an establishment) will either have them or can get them. Black powder you may have to mail order, but the upside to that is, most outfits that deal in black powder will also have every accessory, necessity, doo-dad, and just plain piece of frivolty you could ever want for black powder shooting.
Allen and I and a bunch of others stand (well, scrunch down at our keyboards....) ready to assist with all manner of advice and opinions, some of which might even be useful to you and your brother.
Don't shoot your eye out![;)]
THANKS FOR THE GREAT INFO! I really appreciate it, and it's a good thing that I read the info, because I we were going to go out and try pyrodex in it next weekend. I'll check the local gunshop, and the Dick's Sporting Goods (2 of them within 15 miles) and if they don't have black powder, I'll head over to the nearest Cabela's which is only about an hour or so away. Thanks again!