This maybe a stupid question but ....

Arby

I have an 1863 replica .44 cap and ball pistol with the brass body that I shoot occasionally and I measure each load with a dipper fashioned from 45LC brass....works fine but it is a slow go.

I was told that you really can't over load black powder and the only downside to not measuring loads is that you waste unburned powder.

I have noticed that the muzzle loaders use a powder horn and don't seem to measure a precise amount of powder.

The question is...do you need to measure a precise load or can you just load up making sure that you load enough to give good performance?

Also is it really necessary to put lube on top of the ball after loading? Can you get a auto fire by not doing so?

allen griggs

You do not need to put lube on top of the balls to prevent a chain fire.
I use a lubed wad on top of the powder, and beneath the ball and I have never had a chain fire.

hillbille

Arby there are a few different answers to each question. 1st as to the powder measure the more precise the measure the more accurate the shot, I measure mine by putting my finger ovre the nipple on my powder horn then open and close the flask this leaves me with just the nipple full of powder which is CLOSE to 25 grains as i have a 25 grain nipple, you can get different size nipples from 10-40 grains ect.
2nd per the overload question if yu get to much powder the ball will stick out past the end of the cylinder and the revolver will not rotate proper. accuracy usualy fall off around 25-30 grains, this depends on the pistol, powder and bullet used.
3rd If you don't put lube over the bullet yes you can have chain fires, maybe not every time, but personaly it is not a chance I am willing to take. If you use the pre greased wads you can buy at a local shop , you put them over the powder, under the ball, they seem to work real well in stoping chain fires, they just cost a little more but I think they are not as messy as grease, and leave the pistol a little less messy to clean up later.
Lastly with the brass bodied pistol you are describing I also would not load it heavy, as it is not as strong as the steel counterparts, also the powder charges I was talking about earlier are with FFF black powder, I have not used pyrodex, or 777, so I can't speak as to the safe charges with them. As per the accuracy part, out to about 25-30 yards I can get close enough to a golf ball to make it move 3,4 times out of 6, while I may not split holes on paper that is good enough for me. sorry to e so long winded, hope this helps a little.

glabray

The "correct" load of black powder will be one that is large enough that loading the ball causes the powder to be compressed somewhat, but not so large that the ball will not seat beyond the front of the cylinder.

Lube over the top of the ball is pretty much useless. The high pressure gas escaping from a shot will pretty much blow away the lube over the adjacent chambers unless you use a thick, sticky lube and that stuff is mess enough to make you give up the sport. Use a lubed wad under the ball instead if you feel you need one. Actually, if the ball diameter is correct (a few thousanths oversize) and the mouth of the chambers is square, loading a ball will shave off a small ring of lead. This is evidence of proper sealing of the lead to the chamber walls and no lube or wad is needed. If the ball is a little undersize, you need a wad.

That said, the vast majority of multiple-discharges that I have seen on C&B revolvers have been caused at the nipple end, not at the ball end. This can be caused by cheap guns not having proper isolation of each nipple and/or by use of the wrong size caps.

Arby

Thanks once again guys...This helps with the confidence factor.

Glabray...I have noticed that when I seated the ball that there is a fine lead shaving that is left outside the cylinder...wasn't sure if that was OK or not.

tbrennan

When shooting at targets out to 50 yds 20grains of 3F Black Powder is good but you need to add Cream of Wheat over powder to make up spasce and then add wad and ball. Wheat amount is a matter of experiment until right amount is found. When all is compacted with ram the ball should be just flush with the surface so it will pass the forcing cone portion of the barrel by just thousandths. Why burn up more powder than needed aside from beating yourself up with the recoil and stress on firearm. Oh you also should experiment with ball size. Recommended as opposed to actual. My .44 said to use .454 ball and after experiment I use .457 with good results. It is a need to try. Start with the recommended and go from there.

LEE3370

You mentioned you had a brass framed model. Stick with the 20 grain load and that revolver will last you a good long time. Overload it and it won't last long at all.
I use 15 grains in .36 cal brass framed ones and 20 grains in .44 brass framed ones. With those loads I see no signs of stress or stretching of the brass in the frame.
If you feel the "need" to go to full power, get a steel framed model.

rgerge

The only time I lube over the cylinder is if I'm out hunting just to ensure no moisture gets in, deer season in Vermont is in november and it's cold and wet, and I use a wad under the ball as well. And like one of the other guys said "no more than 20 grains in a .44, with a .451 rb. I have a brass framed Griswold and Gunison and 20 grains is plenty.

Arby

I think that I may have miss spoke about my pistola being an 1863 Navy Colt replica.

I bought the kit from CVA around 1985. It is a round barrel brass framed .44 C@B with a Naval scene scrimshaw engraved on the cylinder. I think it is an 1851 Navy replica, not 1863.

According to the stamp under the loading lever (ASM) I believe it was made by Armi San Marcus.

Building the kit was a lot of fun with a lot of hand work with jewelers files , etc. Before I fired it I took it to a gunsmith and had it checked out and blued. Shoots very nicely and I have not had any problems with it. It shoots about 1 inch off center at 11 o'clock at 25 yards.

I think I read somewhere that Colt never made an 1851 Navy in .44. Anyone know if that is a true statement?

After reading the comments to my original post I probably will take it to the range this week and pop off a few. I need to hit the range and recheck some 45 ACP reloads before qualifying for the third renewal on my CHL...might just make a day of it.

rgerge

that's acorrect statement about the 1851, no .44

ken44-40

quote:I bought the kit from CVA around 1985. It is a round barrel brass framed .44 C@B with a Naval scene scrimshaw engraved on the cylinder. I think it is an 1851 Navy replica, not 1863.
.44 cal and a round barrel would make it an 1860 Army.
A brass framed .44 loaded with 20gr fffg, lubed wad, and a .454 roundball, ignited by #10 Remington caps on Treso nipples will last a lifetime and will most likely never have a chain fire.

Arby

Thanks Ken...

rgerge

if it has half round and half octagonal, it's a griswald and gunison

Winston Bode

The lube on the front of the chamber is not necessarily only to stop a chain fire. It also serves to keep the fouling soft and keep the revolver going longer. With no lube you will probably start binding the cylinder after about 12 shots and will have to disassemble it and clean it before you can shoot any more. Again, the lube will keep the fouling soft, instead of baking it on, and it will also be easier to clean when you are through.

Bode

Hawk Carse

A .44 that looks like an 1851 Colt (or a Griswold & Gunnison or other Southron pistol) is a "reproduction" with no original. Not made in the day. By the time Colt saw a demand for a .44 lighter than a Dragoon, they had the creeping rammer and the gun was the 1860.

As LEE3370 says, do not push a brass framed revolver. Turner Kirkland, founder of Dixie Gun Works, sold them with but the caveat that they were not as durable as steel.