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Norinco Copy of the 1887 Winchester
M1Garandlover
Member Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭✭✭
Wondering if anyone out there has one of the Norinco copies of the 1887 lever action 12 gauge and are they worth a darn? I tried one of there model 1897 type shotguns and did not like the way it operated. thanks
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Wondering if anyone out there has one of the Norinco copies of the 1887 lever action 12 gauge and are they worth a darn? I tried one of there model 1897 type shotguns and did not like the way it operated. thanks
M1Garandlover,
The reason you don't like the operation on the chinese Model 1897 pump gun is because it is new and not 50 to 100 years old. A lot of cowboys have their old '97s worked over. I have seen the chinese reproductions, and they are not bad. The wood on them sucks, though. It's some kind of cheap white hardwood that is painted brown. The finish comes off easily and leaves big white scratches.
The reproduction of the Winchester Model 1887 lever action 12 gauge, a John Browning design, is made in china, but I don't think it's a Norinco gun. Anyway, it is a very well-made, quality piece, in my opinion. I have one that I shoot cowboy with and I think it is a great gun. The wood is very good walnut and fitted very well. The blued metal finish is well done, too. It can be speed loaded two rounds at a time once you get the hang of doing it. The action could use some smoothing out, but I find it easy and quick to shoot.
The reproduction of the Winchester Model 1887 lever action 12 gauge, a John Browning design, is made in china, but I don't think it's a Norinco gun. Anyway, it is a very well-made, quality piece, in my opinion. I have one that I shoot cowboy with and I think it is a great gun. The wood is very good walnut and fitted very well. The blued metal finish is well done, too. It can be speed loaded two rounds at a time once you get the hang of doing it. The action could use some smoothing out, but I find it easy and quick to shoot.
If you really owned one, you would know that they are made by Norinco... http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=101612786
And no, there is not a different maker of them.
The Norinco Model 1897s are pieces of cheaply made junk. There was a topic posted not long ago on the Experts forum, and several gunsmiths who have worked on them attributed to that fact. Having no personal experience with the Norinco Model 1887, I can only assume that it too, is of the same poor quality.
Gee, it looks like God called me out about ten days ago. And me having left the saloon and ridden to Hays City to deliver a prisoner! Dang! But, I'm back now, so I guess I'll read the effete snob's comment, although it is scarcely worth the effort.
I made a comment in an earlier reply (above) about not knowing who manufactured my shotgun. So who should mosey in but the GunBroker resident self-professed, Number One(!)-in-the-whole-world-Winchester-expert wizard, who proceeds to deliver the insinuation that I am lying about owning the gun.quote:If you really owned one, you would know that they are made by Norinco... Don't you just love having some disrespectful nitwit call you a liar? People like this have something going on inside them they will never resolve; I guess it's the need to belittle and defame others in an attempt to make themselves look good and build up their own low self esteem. Bert needs to stop this awful behavior toward others, simply because he doesn't need to.
Having said that about Bert H., I will also say that you can pretty much be assured that the information he brings regarding Winchester firearms is exceptionally accurate and you can generally rely on it as such. I would say, given what I've seen, that I would rely on Bert's assessments more than published data. If the published data conflicts, he's always available on the Experts forum to respond to what he has said vs. the published data.
Okay.....The reproduction Winchester 1887, made by somebody...Bert says Norinco, so let's say Norinco...really is a nice gun. Bert, get your hands on one; they are really a lot of fun. The John Browning design is unique, I think. The receiver looks familiar in a way I couldn't place for a long time, but I now think it is somewhat resembling an old Sharps(?). The reproduction has a two-piece cocking lever and the hinge where the pieces connect can abrade your third finger pretty good. The gun comes with a leather cover over the bottom of the lever, but it is a pretty cheesy affair that I pulled off and gave to another cowboy who wanted it. This sharp point on the inside of the lever and the fact that it comes with a plastic buttplate are the only criticisms I have with the gun. I have not dismantled it, however it has not malfunctioned even once and I've put several hundred rounds through it so far. I thought about taking a small file or stone to the lever to smooth off the sharp edge at the connection, but instead I got a flat piece of vegetable tanned leather and a leather sewing awl and stitched a very tight sleeve all the way around the lever That covers up the sharp edge, and this full sleeve on the lever also makes the gun considerably easier to handle! Also, Numrich Arms sells a reproduction investment cast steel buttplate with the extension that comes over the top of the stock that was common on the 1887 and the later 1897 pump, so if that sounds good, you can get one and carefully fit it to the reproduction 1887.
Bert, I think, is a purist about Winchesters and I guess for him there's no tolerance for something less than the best. The Norinco reproduction of the Winchester Model 1897 pump gun is admittedly less than the best. The wood, as I mentioned earlier, is bad. "How bad was it!?" It was so bad even the Indians at the cowboy shoot felt sorry for us!!
We have to remember that these old guns were, compared to today's guns, hand made one at a time. The quality of the reproductions do not compare. I have seen and fired the 1897 Norinco reproduction (a gunsmith had worked over the action) and it functioned and felt pretty good! Granted, it is obviously not a Winchester original, but for cowboys on a budget, it's all right.
As I said, the.... okay, Norinco(!) reproduction Winchester Model 1887 shotgun is to me, as different quality-wise as night is to day from the reproduction Model 1897 pump guns that I've seen. That's the reason I questioned the idea that Norinco made both of them. The wood-to-metal fit is very nice and tight. Be careful if you try to remove the forearm wood, as it is fitted tight and you could easily snap the wood trying to remove them from their fitted spaces! The wood is decently patterned walnut with an oil-type finish. The blueing is a nice rich satin and is decent enough. The $400-450 price is worth it.
It does take a bit of practice to load two at a time into the gun. I made up some dummy 12gauge to practice with, but four 12gauge snap caps are easier and you can get the hang of loading doubles into the gun in a couple hours of practice.
If you have an old original 1887 or 1901, don't shoot even very light smokeles loads in it....period. It's not worth it to take the risk, either for yourself or the gun. The original old guns (don't know for sure about the 1901s) should have a round, Winchester Repeating Arms Company (WRACo) monogram about 1-1/2" diameter on the left side of the receiver. The reproductions do not have this logo.
Check out Coyote's very excellent website, with 1887 action video!
http://www.coyotecap.com/GunWorks_Home.html