Rifle used in Cowboy Action Shooting

Scout53

Is the Taurus Thunderbolt,45 Colt, used in Cowboy Action Shooting?
Is there a better type of rifle to use and is there a better cal.?
Has anyone any experience with the Thunderbolt?
Thank you for any information.

Hawk Carse

The Taurus Thunderbolt has a dreadful reputation in CAS, and even the better Colt Lightning repros seem not to have all the bugs out.
I recommend a lever action. .45 is traditional (except there were no period .45 Colt rifles), but the hotshots are using .38s so as to not get kicked. Me, all I have is .44-40 but I don't shoot enough any more to justify a new "set" of guns. If I did, they would be .38s.

44caliberkid

The Taurus and all the slide action rifles are notoriously troublesome. Most shooters use an 1866, 1873 or 1892 replica or a Marlin Cowboy. 45 Colt and 38/ 357 are the most commonly used calibers.
I think most of the Taurus's are being stored at the Taurus warranty facility.

Scout53

Thank you for your replies.
Is the 44 mag the same or nearly the same as the 44-40?
I see that there are 44mag lever actions for sale and some are near my price range (I don't have alot to spend).
Is there one model or maker Rossi, Marlin, Winchester etc. that might have a low price rifle that is good for Cowboy Action and just plain shooting? Or does CAS require action work etc. just to be able to show up and shoot for the fun of it?
Thank you for any direction that you might point me in.
Scout53

Hawk Carse

.44 Magnum is not the same as .44-40, nowhere close.
The .44-40 (.44 WCF) is the cartridge for the original 1873 Winchester and is much less powerful than the Magnum. Plenty for CAS, adequate for game if you are a good stalker, and fine for defending the wagon train, etc.

Are you a reloader?

If not, you will find ammunition expensive. .38 Special is the least expensive and kicks the least. .45 Colt rifles are available now although they were not on the frontier. I think there are some light target loads for .44 Magnum and .44 Specials can be shot in most Magnum guns, but it will run the cost up. .44-40 and .38-40 are authentic but expensive to buy and a bit more tedious to reload.

The 1894 Marlin is a good choice. It does not have to be overhauled to have fun.

I have a real Winchester 1892 which is nice but have no experience of the foreign copies. Winchester 1894 in revolver calibers is not as successful. Copies of the 1873 are good but more expensive.

44caliberkid

Going with a Rossi or Puma in any caliber would be a good inexpensive, entry level choice. Just keep in mind, CAS requires lead bullet loads at the low end of the power spectrum, so if you choose 44 mag or 357 mag, you will need to reload mild charges with lead bullets. Using 38 special or 44 special in the Rossi's doesn't always work well, they need the full length cartridge to operate properly. 44-40 and 45 Colt are commonly available in a cowboy load.

Scout53

Thank you for the replies.
I read that reloading, which I would like to do, the 44-40 is harder to reload compared to the 44 mag. Do you agree?
Also, would it be possible to load the 44 mag.or the 44-40 "light" and it still do alright for Cowboy Action Shooting? I thought that using a lever action over a semi-auto would allow me to load a lighter charge because the action would not use the energy of the cartridge to function.
Any thoughts on these questions are welcomed.
Thank you.
Scout53

Hawk Carse

Sure, you can handload to make them do pretty well anything you want.

The .44-40 is a little more tedious to reload because it is a slightly bottlenecked case and there are no carbide sizing dies made for it. So the brass needs to be lubricated, sized, then delubed. Adds work but does a nice job. The brass is thinner than most newer calibers and you will occasionally crush one against the die mouth if not perfectly aligned. I load for it, but .44-40 would not be my first choice if starting over or my first recommendation to a new loader.

I don't understand the reference to a semiauto. They are not allowed in CAS.

Scout53

Hawk Carse,
What I ment about semi-auto is that auto loaders need a certain amount of energy to cycle. Otherwise the cartridge does not eject properly. A manually operated ejection systeme, lever action, should work with any cartridge load whether low or high power, as long as there is enough power to push the projectile clear of the barrel.
I hope this makes sense out of my earlier message.
Thank you for your reply and if you have anything further to add I will appreciate it.
Do you recommend the 44 mag. over a 44-40 cal.?
Thank you.

Scout53

Hawk Carse,
I didn't mean that I thought that I could use a semi auto, although it sounded that way. I was just trying to compare the two. The semi auto needs so much power to operate and the lever action does not.
My thoughts did not come out as I had intended.
Thank you for your help.

44caliberkid

Yes, the 44 magnum can be loaded down to CAS velocities. You can use Trailboss powder and a 200 - 240 grain lead bullet. Just look up data that gives you about 750 - 850 fps.
I don't recommend one over another, it's just a matter of personal preference, however, since you seem to be a beginner, I'd say go with the 44 mag. Brass and bullets are plentiful and you can get carbide reloading dies.
If you get a Rossi or Browning 1892 reproduction, you might try it with 44 specials to see if they cycle. If it works you can buy off the shelf cowboy loads for 44 special.

44caliberkid

I checked with a couple shooters I know who use a Rossi (Puma) in 44 magnum and they say 44 Special rounds cycle through just fine, so if you don't handload you could use cowboy loads for 44 special. Of course most 44 special loads are lead bullet and pretty mild velocity wise, so would qualify.

beeker77

I got a great deal on a Winchester Model 94 in .32 Win Special.
Does the rifle have to use the same ammo as the pistol?
Can a Norinco Model 1897 pump be used for shotgun?

44caliberkid

CAS rifles have to be pistol caliber rifles. You would blow a hole through our steel plates with a 32 Special.

beeker77

quote:Originally posted by 44caliberkid
CAS rifles have to be pistol caliber rifles. You would blow a hole through our steel plates with a 32 Special.


[:0] Wow. Thanks.
Would that be true even with cast lead bullets and low charges?

44caliberkid

No, we have had side matches using bottle necked cartridges (like a 30-30 match) and lead bullets, light charges, but they usually use "issued" ammo, so we can be sure the load is right.
No club is going to take your word for it and risk ruining their targets.

beeker77

quote:Originally posted by 44caliberkid
No, we have had side matches using bottle necked cartridges (like a 30-30 match) and lead bullets, light charges, but they usually use "issued" ammo, so we can be sure the load is right.
No club is going to take your word for it and risk ruining their targets.


Makes sense. Always assume the worst; better safe than sorry, etc. [;)]

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Scout53

Thank you for sharing your opinions and experiences. This is a great help to me.
Thank you.

sonne

I'm a SASS shooter as is my daughter. The most reliable rifles are the 1873 Winchester (me) copies & and the 1895 Marlin (her). The 1873 can be tuned for faster shooting. It's about $150 to do the minimum. You DON'T have to do this to shoot well although it's a bit slower unmodified. There's nothing much that can be done to the Marlin to improve a fine rifle. It's cheaper up front & you won't be disappointed. There's nothing wrong with shooting .38's. MANY shooters use them.
There are Maximum & Minimum load & speed limits in SASS if you're a reloader. This limits the use of high velocity ammo for safety reasons. The low limit stops those that are attempting to lower their recoil to almost non-existant. I've seen some low loads that were so slow you could follow the bullet in flight. Those ain't legal, Pardner!
Good luck and remember it's for fun!

Nite Ryder

Like Sonne stated, CAS is all about having fun. Before I stated shooting CAS in 2006 I had most of the guns already. I've used an AWA Pump rifle in 45 Colt caliber (copy of Colt lightning), it didn't work well. Get a lever action that shoots a pistol caliber. I started with 45 Colt, but now I shoot a loaded down 38 special (which are cheaper and use less powder). Marlin 1894 is the best rifle for the money you can start out with, as long as you don't buy the "Cowboy model" or "Competition Model" both of those models cost more and are no better than the standard model. Slicking up a Marlin to make it work faster is easy and usually a project you can do yourself. Doing the same with a Winchester 73 copy can be accomplished by yourself if you are handy with tools and have some mechanical ability. As for shotguns some of us use side by sides, and some of us use Winchester 97's. Which ever you choose it will need to have some minor work done on it to make it function well when you are in a hurry. Start with what you can afford, I would not recommend a Winchester 94 rifle in any caliber, and I would think twice before I paid much for a 92. I presently use either a 73 or 66 rifle, but I also have Marlins in 45 Colt, 44 Mag, & 357/38. The Marlins are relatively cheap to buy and work well, however, no one has been able to build and install a short stroke kit for a Marlin that functions as well as those sold for the 'toogle action' rifles (66's & 73's).

eastbank

i load 44-40,s and they are not much more work than 44mags or 45,s,maybe a little and the same with cost a little more. what i like is the fact that with the tapered case they feed better, with some of my lever actions in strait walled cases i have to take care in loading or they will hang up. my lever actions are older 92 wins. and 92 clones and marlins. the reason 66 and 73,s are good for speed shooting is not the calibure or strenth,but in the way they feed the shells, they feed strait into the chamber out of the shell lifter,that comer strait up,while the 92,s and company use the tilt lifter that must relye on shell guilds to funnel the shells into the chamber. i also shoot a original 1876 win(super sized 73) in 45-60 and it is as smooth as silk,and thats not bad for a rifle thats 127 years old. eastbank.