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495 rnd ball is dead on 50yds

OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380 ✭✭
and ALL over the place at 100 yds

14in high, 12in low, 8 left, 10 right, and everywhere inbetween

WTH is going on?

the particulars
50 cal cabelas Haken Open Sights .495 hornady rd ball .015 pre lubed patch 50grs of Pyrodex RS Musket Cap Shot from a pile of sand bags front/rear

upon inspection of the patches it appears about half of them are blow in two. the ones that didn't blow apart are pin holed around the outside diameter of the ball most at or near were the rifling's are seen engaging, also the rifling's don't look to be cutting the patches uniformly some look to engage fully while others shown little if any engagement.

This was the first time I had shot at 100yds I have been doing LD at 50 and thought I had it figured out

I wouldn't be able to hit a car let alone a deer of elk consistently with it patterning like this

Comments

  • hillbillehillbille Member Posts: 14,085 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    my first guess would be bad lead/molding I would try a few back at 50yd to see if still good. I made a batch from some giveaway lead , guy gave me didn't know where it came from, you could feel the weight difference by putting one in each hand. check the balls to see if they are consistant. they ones I was talking about basically knuckleballed out the barrell. at close range they were good farther out you went the worse they got. good luck.

    after rereading sounds like the patches are almost donuts, this may be caused by sharp rifleing or to much powder. still check the balls for consistantcy first.
    you may try .10 thousandths patch see if it helps. you are a little over sized with combo you are using.
  • dandak1dandak1 Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Had the exact same thing. Then I read about stuffing 1 patch down on top of the powder, then the patched ball. It was called "double patching" altho it does not mean putting 2 patches on the ball...as stated the first one went in on top of the powder. I actually use thin old cotton cloth (okay....old washed cotton boxer shorts was the source, like I said, I needed thin material) about 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" and I crumple the first one up so the ramrod does not pull it out after I seat it on the powder. Then load the patched ball like normal. The author (Sam Fadala) of the article actually used material from an old paper hornets nest! You know, those football shaped things hanging in the tree. Since I dont often find those I just used old thin cotton clothing. It worked perfectly for me...groups tightened right up and patches were not blown through. Also, I used .495 ball plus 0.015 patch like you, but my plinking load was 65 gn RS and my hunting load was quite a bit higher. the double patching helped both loads.
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hillbille
    my first guess would be bad lead/molding I would try a few back at 50yd to see if still good.


    I don't lose accuracy at 50 yds between 50-100 it goes the hell

    quote:check the balls to see if they are consistant.
    Didn't think to do that, on the to do list

    quote:after rereading sounds like the patches are almost donuts, this may be caused by sharp rifleing or to much powder. still check the balls for consistency first. you may try .10 thousandths patch see if it helps. you are a little over sized with combo you are using.

    patches are blowing apart nearly in half, half of the center is still there along with half of the overall patch, I reduce the load from 60grs to 50grs and the patches stopped blowing apart but I am still seeing pin holes were the rifling's engage

    I picked up some pillow ticking that should be .09 and will get back with the results

    I had being doing LD at 25-50yds where I consistently was getting 1"-1.5" groups I'm glad I decided to see what it looked like at 100 this would have been disastrous come hunting season

    Thanks
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by dandak1
    Had the exact same thing. Then I read about stuffing 1 patch down on top of the powder, then the patched ball. It was called "double patching" altho it does not mean putting 2 patches on the ball...as stated the first one went in on top of the powder. I actually use thin old cotton cloth (okay....old washed cotton boxer shorts was the source, like I said, I needed thin material) about 1 1/2" X 1 1/2" and I crumple the first one up so the ramrod does not pull it out after I seat it on the powder. Then load the patched ball like normal. The author (Sam Fadala) of the article actually used material from an old paper hornets nest! You know, those football shaped things hanging in the tree. Since I dont often find those I just used old thin cotton clothing. It worked perfectly for me...groups tightened right up and patches were not blown through. Also, I used .495 ball plus 0.015 patch like you, but my plinking load was 65 gn RS and my hunting load was quite a bit higher. the double patching helped both loads.


    Will try the double patch along with some different patch material
  • Winston BodeWinston Bode Member Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds to me like you need to up your powder charge. 50 grains is about half the max load for .50 caliber.

    I would go up in 10 grain increments until I got to max. just to be sure.

    If the rifling is ruff the rifle should still shoot accurately especially if it shoots 1 inch at 50 yards. It should be more consistent than that at 100 yards.

    Bode
  • bull300wsmbull300wsm Member Posts: 3,289
    edited November -1
    I had about the same problem with my .54 cal. The patches were getting a big hole blown in them. I finally tried a wad in front of my powder and behind my patch & ball. Mine went from several inch groups at 25 yards to one ragged hole. It might work for yours Odawgp...good luck...bull
  • krazy4kragskrazy4krags Member Posts: 39 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Howdy!
    This may not help much, but then again, food for thought never makes your stomach ache.

    At closer ranges I have noticed that this is not AS important to keep track of, but, when you start moving the target downrange, the consistency of the load AND the pressure with which you compress your charge also becomes very critical. IF you have a routine and even have a kadooty (fancy loadin stik) you can get the same pressure on the load every time...if not it takes some playing around with and lots of practice.

    BTW, if 50 grns is your test load for hunting, what muzzle velocity and energy are you putting out? If you can meter this with a chronograph you may see the variation. Beware that a lesser charge may sometimes mean more accuracy, but it may be losing umph downrange to efficiently kill your intended target.

    Best Regards!
  • dandak1dandak1 Member Posts: 450 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by bull300wsm
    I had about the same problem with my .54 cal. The patches were getting a big hole blown in them. I finally tried a wad in front of my powder and behind my patch & ball. Mine went from several inch groups at 25 yards to one ragged hole. It might work for yours Odawgp...good luck...bull

    Exactly, this is what happened to me when I double patched. The first patch, or in your case the wad, protects the patch around the ball from the gasses and from tearing. Odawgp's problem isnt too little powder or a rough bore, it is his patches are not holding up. My Green mt barrel is 15 years old, has over 1200 shots thru it, and STILL tears patches unless i double patch.
  • anderskandersk Member Posts: 3,627 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    That is helpful to me as well. I think I have a barrel that is cutting patches probably because of some corrosion before the gun came to my possession.
  • OdawgpOdawgp Member Posts: 5,380 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by andersk
    That is helpful to me as well. I think I have a barrel that is cutting patches probably because of some corrosion before the gun came to my possession.


    Mine is brand new with only 101 round balls down the barrel

    I had excellent accuracy at 25 and 50 yds thought Id at least be on the paper at 100

    WRONG!
  • mbsamsmbsams Member Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't think your ball is stabilized enough for 100 yds. Get that powder charge up to 75 grains at least. Double patch or use a wad over the powder, seat ball with 25 lbs of pressure. Make sure the lubed patch is well centered over bore when you start that ball.
  • electricflingelectricfling Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I shoot a 1863 richmond in 58 caliber an i dodnt use any patches and i dodnt have ay problem like use describe . i am a member of the nssa and we shoot a compatition every two weeks na noone at these events shoot with a patch and we can hit 6 inch tiles at a hundred yrs off hand and open sights. you might want to try this
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