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44-40 loading specs

fvpd201fvpd201 Member Posts: 44 ✭✭
edited October 2010 in Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
I am new to action shooting and in need of some suggetions on loading specs for the 44-40 round.

I have a SAA 4 3/4" amd 5 1/2" and a 1860 Henry all made by Uberti which I intend on using.

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Mark J
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Comments

  • 44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are you going to use smokeless or black powder?
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  • fvpd201fvpd201 Member Posts: 44 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    My intention is to use smokeless powder. I did an internet search earlier and found a 2005 article that referenced IMR "Trail Boss" powder. The article called for 6.4 gr with a 200gr bullet.

    Not knowing different, I would really appreaciate some tried and proved alternatives.

    Thanks much,

    Mark J
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  • 44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yes, that's good data for Trailboss. Max charge of TB is 6.5 grains, so anything in the 6+ grains up to that is OK.
    Titegroup is another very popular CAS powder. Use 5.5 to 6.0 with a 200 grain lead bullet.
    200 grain bullets are the norm for 44-40's.
    Another load you might try, a little on the warmer side, is 7.5 grains of Unique. Make sure your scale and powder measure are accurate though, because Unique is a little less forgiving if you go over the proper weight than Trail Boss or Titegroup.
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  • longspur riderlongspur rider Member Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    How about a formula fo using Hodgdon clays powder? Just got the dies for loader for 44-40 but having trouble finding the shell holder for them.
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  • 44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clays is 4.2 - 5.0 grains with a 200 grain bullet. A shell holder that fits 45 Colt will also work for 44-40.
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  • longspur riderlongspur rider Member Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the hodgdon formula. I have a shell holder for 45LC, & the 44-40 won't fit in it. I tried several different shells & could not get them in even with a little force.
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  • dtknowlesdtknowles Member Posts: 810 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Longspur

    That will teach you, if you bought Lee dies the correct shellholder comes with the dies.

    I was pleasantly suprised when I got my 44-40 dies that the shellholder was along for the ride. I had forgotten all about needing a shellholder until I was ready to use them and voila it was right there.

    I got a DA Top Break Smith & Wesson in 44-40 for Christmas

    Tim
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  • longspur riderlongspur rider Member Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I bought Lee dies for my 45LC & the holder came with it. They (cabela's) didn't have 44-40 showing in stock anywhere but did show them in RCBS. silly m' just assumed it would be in set. Called them back to get one & they don't have one & can't get one. Say they are discontinued. Went straight to RCBS & ordered it. Teach me not to ask enough questions.
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  • Winston BodeWinston Bode Member Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Are you sure you tried the shell holder for the .45 Colt and not the one for the .45 ACP? Big difference. Should work though with the .45 colt shell holder.

    I second the use of Hodgdon powder, go to their website and get all the loading information on all their powders.

    But if you really want to make it sing, stoke it with pyrodex P, triple seven or Goex black powder. The slite bottle neck on the 44-40 case really seals the chambers and keeps that fouling from blowing back into the action of your rifle or into the chambers of the cylinder on the revolvers.

    Bode
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  • longspur riderlongspur rider Member Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Right now the only shell holder I have is 45LC. So i coulgn't have mixed them up, but the 44-40 would not go in. Only about half of the 45LC go into this holder smoothly. usually takes some pursuasion, especially the Ultra-max shells.
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  • praire dogpraire dog Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi A RCBS shell holder for the new 44/40 brass in a #28 for the older brass it is a #26, it is the thickness of the brass rim that will be the factor. I use a load of 5.7 trailboss for all four of my guns and it seems to work just great, I have an Uberti rifle in the brass frame that was bought back in the being of 82 if it the Little Big Horn edition, I have to set the bullet several thousandths deeper to be able to run the shell thru the lever action, I first used factory ammo and it actually put a bulge in received, sent it back to the factory, after it was repaired i was very careful of the loads used in it. It is a very accurate and fun rifle to shoot.
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  • praire dogpraire dog Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hi A RCBS shell holder for the new 44/40 brass in a #28 for the older brass it is a #26, it is the thickness of the brass rim that will be the factor. I use a load of 5.7 trailboss for all four of my guns and it seems to work just great, I have an Uberti rifle in the brass frame that was bought back in the being of 82 it is the Little Big Horn edition, I have to set the bullet several thousandths deeper to be able to run the shell thru the lever action, I first used factory ammo and it actually put a bulge in received, sent it back to the factory, after it was repaired i was very careful of the loads used in it. It is a very accurate and fun rifle to shoot. Just made a spelling correction.
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  • dtknowlesdtknowles Member Posts: 810 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Melkor

    You said Trail Boss uses too much powder the you said you use 9.2 grains of Unique but Prarie Dog says he uses 5.7 grains of Trail Boss, care to explain?

    Both are way cheaper than 30 gr. of BP or sub. I'm want to load some rounds for my Top Break DA S&W but it is a BP cartridge gun and Trail Boss seems better than Unique. Lyman says 6.3 gr. of Unique only pumps up 5,700 C.U.P and that has got to be ok but Trail Boss fills the case better.

    Tim
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  • dtknowlesdtknowles Member Posts: 810 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I shoot just about every weekend and I have never seen anyone blow up a gun. Knock wood. What were your and your friend thinking. Do you often let other people shoot your reloads. I thought the rule is "reloads are only to be used in the gun that they were developed in" the only exception is starting loads, as they are suspposed to be OK in any gun in good working condition.

    Don't you feel at least partially responsible for distroying your friends gun.

    In some cases it is fine to shoot low pressure smokeless powder loads in a black powder gun. 45-70 is the first to come to mind, people have been shooting old 45-70's and 45-90's with smokeless powder ammo for years.

    I have 4 black powder era revolvers that I shoot with low pressure smokeless powder loads. The load I quoted using Unique is one example. A full case of black powder would produce more pressure.

    Still something like 5 grains of Trail Boss sounds like a good load for my gun but I would like to see some pressure data.

    Tim
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  • PaganPagan Member Posts: 272 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by melkor
    I take no responsibility for idiots.

    U shoot black powder out of black powder guns. Thats the only rule BOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM![B)] HA !

    Rifles have far more strength than revolvers.


    The man says he's got all Uberti guns, not antique black powder Colts like you play with.
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  • praire dogpraire dog Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Melkor I think maybe you have been sniffing to much Unique powder and need to spend many hours of quality time on a good couch with your shrink, after reading your responses on the 44/40 topic I don't believe I could borrow you a Red Ryder and expect to get it back undamaged. You need to think about what you tell people when giving advise on powder charges, Max loads do have their place but for the most part are not fun to shoot and hard on your toys. Sorry but once a bolt goes in your eye or you loose a finger you can't just go to the hardware store and pick up a new eye or finger.
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  • Winston BodeWinston Bode Member Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I stopped lubing my 44-40 brass years ago after someone told me it was not necessary. I was new to reloading and did not believe them as I had always heard to lube the brass.

    Anyway, I tried it one day and have not lubed the cases since. I don't know why or how you can do this as it goes against everything I have ever read about reloading. It works.

    Saves a little time as it does away with one extra step in the preperation of your brass.

    Bode
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  • longspur riderlongspur rider Member Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I wasn't lubing my cases either, had carbide dies. After about 350 shells it was pulling very hard, so I put a little lube on the case. Made all the differance in the world. Lubed one in every dozen.
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  • AzlonegunmanAzlonegunman Member Posts: 21 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks guys, I was looking at a used 44-40 at Cabela's. I'm not a big fan of 7 1/2 inch barrels but the price was good and the pseudo stag grips are nice. Only problem was the cost of ammo. I might have to stop back by there and take another look. A barrel can always be shortened, it's making it go the other way that's a problem.

    Brian
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  • longspur riderlongspur rider Member Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Azlonegunman- My favorite SAA is a 44-40 with a 7 1\2" barrel. If I had my druthers that's the only one I would shoot. One of the places I shoot only allows 45LC.
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  • curtiss-p6e-hawkcurtiss-p6e-hawk Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 44caliberkid
    Another load you might try, a little on the warmer side, is 7.5 grains of Unique. Make sure your scale and powder measure are accurate though, because Unique is a little less forgiving if you go over the proper weight than Trail Boss or Titegroup.


    alliant's website shows a min weight of 8 gr for the 205 44-40 bullet and 930fps. Max at 8.5gr@990fps. Is this load ok for Uberti's 5.5 SAA?
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  • Killian19Killian19 Member Posts: 6 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Look at the Factory 44-40 specs for Win SuperX 200JSP or Remington 200JPS the only original load for 44-40. (before CAS loads) If you look at the gun owners manual it says only shoot factory loads. The first Uberti 1866 were imported in 1971 by Navy Arms and were only available in 44-40, the only thing you could shoot was 200JSP. Well looking at Lyman's manual of 1972, JSP factory duplication was less than the max. The max was 11.1 pistol, rifle was 11.3 of UNIQUE, as I remember it was like 8.5 grns. Since cast bullet is a lot easier to push through the barrel using less pressure build up it would be safe to use the 8.5 with a cast bullet. Now the 1997 Lyman manual says max for rifle is 10.2 a difference of 1.1. I would think any gun made from 1900 would be able to shoot just fine with 8.5 to 9.0 of UNIQUE, JSP, or cast 200 bullet.

    If you look at the powder sites now, all the reference is cowboy loads which are by rule are less than normal or "use to be" factory loads for 44-40.
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  • luckyeddieluckyeddie Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would like to find out where I can get a recipe for black powder loads for the 44-40. Can anyone provide a link?

    Ron
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  • Winston BodeWinston Bode Member Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The correct charge of black powder is enough powder to fill the case so that when you seat the bullet the charge is compressed about 1/16 of an inch. May take some experimenting but it will be worth it.

    Bode
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  • luckyeddieluckyeddie Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Outstanding, thanks. I reload 40 S&W but my bud has 2 44-40 pistols we want to give a try.

    Ron
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  • luckyeddieluckyeddie Member Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Now that I am thinking about it, is the F, FF, or FFF? I also have some Goex, does this apply to that type of powder as well?

    Ron
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