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Pietta 1858 Remington

jailermanjailerman Member Posts: 145 ✭✭✭
edited December 2010 in Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
I just purchased this gun at a gunshow. It came with the .44 cal cap and ball cylinder as well as a 45 colt cartridge cylinder. Can anyone tell me what a good load of black powder and ball size should be? Also when using the 45 colt cartride cylinder is this meant for black powder loads or modern smokeless powder cowboy type loads? This gun appears like new and has the target sights on it. Do I need a greased wad between the powder and ball?
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    Fletcher PastoreFletcher Pastore Member Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You can load a .454 ball with 20 grs FFF and use grits to fill the cylinder almost full before seating the ball. You can either use a wad between the ball and powder, or you can put some grease over the ball. I would limit 45 LC loads to black powder. This revolver is not designed to shoot smokeless loads.
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    jailermanjailerman Member Posts: 145 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks, didn't think about the grits. After I bought it I got to thinking that it was probably only meant to shoot black poweder loads even in the 45 colt cylinder. It didn't come with any paper work and have found anything on the convertable cylinder on the net yet.
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    mpleshmplesh Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What are grits??? I have this same gun which I purchased from Cabella's. You can probably get the owners/instruction manual from them...

    mike.
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    bobbyrose512bobbyrose512 Member Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Think of cream of wheat. Grits are made out of corn and is a course grind. Cream of wheat can also be used to take up the extra space.
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    mpleshmplesh Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ok, I guess I still do not understand. Why would you want to place grits in the gun? Is it dangerous to not fill up the cylinder? The instruction manual did not make any mention of doing anything like this. I shot the pistol with just black powder, a lubricated felt seal and a .451 ball. This is what came with the gun when I bought it.

    mike
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    44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    What you're doing is fine. Some BP pistol shooters, in the quest for maximum accuracy, want the ball seated just below the chamber mouth, so it has the shortest possible hop into the forcing cone and barrel. They may also want a reduced load for ease of shooting, so the use of a filler to take up the extra space. The suggested loads by the factories are rediculously light, such as 15 grains for 44.
    I use a 25 grain spout on my powder flask and just seat the ball down on the powder and lube the chamber mouths. I've shot this load in CAS competition for 10 years and it works fine. I like to fill the extra space with more BP.
    The cartridge conversion cylinders are rated for cowboy loads in smokeless powder, however, your frame of the C&B gun may not be. Pushing a heavy bullet (255 grains) down a barrel and frame made for a 130 grain roundball may stretch the Remington frame. I saw a brass framed Remington fired with a conversion cylinder (a BIG NO- NO) and Winchester 250 grain cowboy 45 Colt ammo and after 3 shots the frame looked like it had been put in a vise, a handle inserted through the cylinder window, and twisted (bent) off center about 30 degrees. It was a brand new pistol from Cabelas and the guy returned it and they gave him a new one.
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    Fletcher PastoreFletcher Pastore Member Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Originally posted by 44caliberkid
    The suggested loads by the factories are rediculously light, such as 15 grains for 44.
    I use a 25 grain spout on my powder flask and just seat the ball down on the powder and lube the chamber mouths. I've shot this load in CAS competition for 10 years and it works fine. I like to fill the extra space with more BP.

    The factory suggested loads are more than likely the most accurate. The load you are shooting may be fine for CAS but more than likely not for precision shootng at 25 and 50 yards. I shoot a 15 grain load in a .44 Remington Army in bullseye target competition. This load will shoot 1.5 inch groups off hand ( one handed ) at 25 yards and 3 inch groups at 50 yards. BTW I do use filler because of the light load.
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    44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Which is why I said in my first sentence that some people shoot light loads with fillers for maximum accuracy. Most guys aren't shooting NMLRA bullseye pistol matches.
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    bgraypupbgraypup Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 44caliberkid
    What you're doing is fine. Some BP pistol shooters, in the quest for maximum accuracy, want the ball seated just below the chamber mouth, so it has the shortest possible hop into the forcing cone and barrel. They may also want a reduced load for ease of shooting, so the use of a filler to take up the extra space. The suggested loads by the factories are rediculously light, such as 15 grains for 44.
    I use a 25 grain spout on my powder flask and just seat the ball down on the powder and lube the chamber mouths. I've shot this load in CAS competition for 10 years and it works fine. I like to fill the extra space with more BP.
    The cartridge conversion cylinders are rated for cowboy loads in smokeless powder, however, your frame of the C&B gun may not be. Pushing a heavy bullet (255 grains) down a barrel and frame made for a 130 grain roundball may stretch the Remington frame. I saw a brass framed Remington fired with a conversion cylinder (a BIG NO- NO) and Winchester 250 grain cowboy 45 Colt ammo and after 3 shots the frame looked like it had been put in a vise, a handle inserted through the cylinder window, and twisted (bent) off center about 30 degrees. It was a brand new pistol from Cabelas and the guy returned it and they gave him a new one.
    44 Kid or other experts. would or do you use 25 grains in brass frame Tks. bgraypup
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    44caliberkid44caliberkid Member Posts: 925 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd feel Ok with it in a brass frame Remington style pistol, but not in the brass Colt pattern ones like the .44 Reb 1851's. It would loosen the arbor in the frame with steady use.
    I would not use 35 grains in brass Remingtons, and they are capable of holding that.
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    bgraypupbgraypup Member Posts: 43 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by 44caliberkid
    I'd feel Ok with it in a brass frame Remington style pistol, but not in the brass Colt pattern ones like the .44 Reb 1851's. It would loosen the arbor in the frame with steady use.
    I would not use 35 grains in brass Remingtons, and they are capable of holding that.
    used 28 grams but was uncomfortaable with it, felt it was unsessary wear to the gun. tks. bgraypup
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    BergtrefferBergtreffer Member Posts: 629 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yesterday I too bought a brand new, unfired Rem 1858 repro in .44 cal. Paid $175 for it in a gun shop. Not a bad price. It was just the revolver but no manual or box. Several questions for you all. One, where can I get a copy of the owner's manual? And, two, besides black powder can I use Pyrodex and/or Clean Shot? I have always used Pyrodex in my front stuff rifles. This is my first BP revolver.
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    CT Swamp YankeeCT Swamp Yankee Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by mplesh
    Ok, I guess I still do not understand. Why would you want to place grits in the gun? Is it dangerous to not fill up the cylinder? The instruction manual did not make any mention of doing anything like this. I shot the pistol with just black powder, a lubricated felt seal and a .451 ball. This is what came with the gun when I bought it.

    mike


    I've recently purchased a Pietta 1858 from Cabela's as well - yes the Pietta owner's manual in mine suggests that you can use felt wads over the charge or "a dose of semolina".

    Semolina being a coarse grained wheat flour - much like cornmeal or grits in consistency. The purpose, as has already been pointed out, is to fill the chamber more before seating the ball when using the light powder charges they recommend.
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    CT Swamp YankeeCT Swamp Yankee Member Posts: 2 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Bergtreffer
    Yesterday I too bought a brand new, unfired Rem 1858 repro in .44 cal. Paid $175 for it in a gun shop. Not a bad price. It was just the revolver but no manual or box. Several questions for you all. One, where can I get a copy of the owner's manual? And, two, besides black powder can I use Pyrodex and/or Clean Shot? I have always used Pyrodex in my front stuff rifles. This is my first BP revolver.


    I use Pyrodex P in my .36 caliber 1858.

    If your revolver is a Pietta, the manual can be found on their website.
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