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1851 NAVY REPLICA
YIMMYTHEFITZ
Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
OK, no pictures of this but..........I bought a brass framed, '51 navy square back with no loading lever, no back strap, no grips. $35, fixed it all up, unfired sharp lookin weapon. Here's the question: no makers mark, no proofs of any kind, the only thing stamped on the gun is "17" on the frame, barrel and cylinder. VERY well made,better than my Uberti '51, has anyone seen or own something similar and what do you know about it. Super accurate @ 50 yards with .375 RB. Thanks boys! Happy forth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comments
You Probably want 451 ball, but make sure they are a tight fit. Might need 454, but not 457. Some guys say you should actually shave off a ring of lead as you press them into the cylinder. 20 grains of Black powder or Pyrodex sounds about right, you can get a flask from most black powder gun sellers with the correct spout to measure the correct charge for a 44. in any event, you should be putting enough powder to fill the chambers up to where the ball has to be seated; there should NOT be air space behind the ball. Number 11 caps are Usually the correct fit, but some Italian nipples MAY be smaller. Worse comes to worse, pinch the caps a bit before you put them on, and they'll stay on better. "Bore butter" or grease is placed on top of the balls in the loaded chambers to lubricate the bullets & barrel and to prevent "chainfire" (meaning the flash could travel to the front of an adjacent cylinder and ignite THAT charge too. (the gun will NOT blow up from not using grease.) Patches are not used, though some shooters use a greased wad UNDER the ball.
Always a good idea to go to the range and see if there's anyone else there shooting black powder; guys are always happy to share their knowledge and experience.
Also wear shooting glasses: these revolvers have been known to spit pieces of the caps backwards.AND NEVER NEVER EVER USE SMOKELESS POWDER IN ONE OF THESE GUNS.
Go out and have some fun.
PS, you can clean it with soapy water afterwards, just dry it good and oil it well, so it doesn't rust; black powder fouling is very corrosive if you leave it on the gun
One very important thing that you must keep in mind is that the propellant charge needs to be nicely "set" in the bottom of rifle barrel, or revolver cyclinder. Put the propellant in and then thump the weapon several times to make sure the propellant is nicely set in the bottom. Then ram the bullet or ball (with a patch if that is needed) and make sure that the projectile is set firmly against the compressed propellant charge. I have three muzzleloading rifles (two .58s and one .50), and for each one I have a favored propellant charge, and a favored projectile. The ramrod for each of the rifles is marked at a point where, with the propellant and projectile rammed into the barrel, the mark on the ramrod is right at the end of the muzzle. That way I know that I have properly seated the entire charge. This safety precaution and observation is all about making sure that the entire charge is seated properly. BECAUSE -- if the propellant dumped in just fine, and the ball or bullet is run in supposedly "just fine", and if there is an air gap in side the barrel, you would risk damage to the weapon or injury to yourself. A muzzleloader absolutely can not have an airgap inside between the propellant charge and the projectile. That is a definite no no. Hence, you must make sure that the projectile is seated all the way down, against the powder charge. And that is why the ramrod should be marked with a line at the muzzle so that you know positively that the entire charge is properly seated.
How could a person not know that the bullet or ball is properly seated? That is easy to answer and explain. I speak from experience with the .58 caliber Zouave rifle, firing Civil War-style miniball bullets. The miniball has a pointed nose and a concave, hollow base. The miniball projectile is a little smaller than bore diameter, and it depends on the concave, hollow base to form a gas seal. The concave base of the bullet is a thinned "skirt" that expands when the propellant gas pushes against it. My Zouave is not really accurate with miniballs until the third shot. This is because fouling from spent gas puts layers of deposit on the inside of the barrel. With the first shot a lot of the propellant gas pushes against the expanding skirt of the bullet, but at that instant some of the gas leaks past the bullet. With a clean barrel, the first shot at 25 or 30 yards will always be several inches high and about 12 to 14 inches left of center. The second shot with a fouled barrel places the bullet about one inch high and about 7 inches left. The third shot with the barrel having increased fouling will place the shot pretty much dead on center. Subsequent shots in the increasingly fouled barrel gets to be difficult around shot number eight, because with that much fouling it is difficult to seat the bullet. This is where it is possible to have an air gap between the propellant and the base of the bullet. The fouling crude tightends up the clearance and simply trying to ram a bullet down the bore becomes difficult or impossible. Hence it is very important to have the ramrod marked so that one knows for certain that the bullet has been rammed home.
My experience with this is real. Being a newbie and on my own to learn how to shoot the thing, I made a number of shots and the bullets were getting more difficult to ram home onto the propellant charge. Finally, at about shot 7 or 8, when I pulled the trigger the rifle felt different when it shot, and the hammer recocked itself. High pressure gas/air blew back out of the nipple, blowing the spent cap away, and resetting the hammer. There was an air gap between the propellant and the bullet, and the ignition of the propellant also compressed the air in the gap that caused a blow back of higher pressure gas/air. That is what recocked the hammer. I realized what had happened and I quickly learned to swab out the barrel after several shots, using pieces of ordinary paper napkins. Appropriately cut pieces of paper napkin (I like to use napkins from McDonalds, Burger King, or Wendy's), slipped through the eye of a cleaning rod, and swabbed up and down the bore is a good way to keep the fowling crude at a reasonable amount. Dry patching with paper napkins is a great way to control the amoutn of fouling. A certain amount of fowling is needed in the barrel for the miniballs to shoot well.
Many or most muzzleloader shooters will load and shoot off one or two fowling charges so the their weapons will shoot good for a first scoring or hunting shot.
My 1860 has .450 chambers and does great with a .454 ball. Pietta put a chamfer on the cylinder mouths (they put a very slight taper at the mouth of the chambers) which lets you start a larger ball. It shoots pretty good even with a full charge. It is just a bit harder to ram, but remember that you're putting a lot more force on the cylinder pin and wedge when you fire than when you ram.
They say you don't want the ball to travel too far in the cylinder before it hits the barrel or accuracy can be compromised, so you don't want the charge to be too light even if the rammer will reach. Unless of course you use a 20 grain target charge, then put in some filler with the blackpowder measure set to throw a 15 grain charge. Then you'll have a mild charge which is good for accuracy, you'll have a compressed charge, which is necessary for blackpowder safety, and the ball won't get a chance to pick up much speed before being crammed into the rifling, which is also good for accuracy. Some others take up space with an ox-yoke wonder wad, which is also lubed and eliminates the need to put grease over the tops of the bullets. I don't use them and my gun shoots fine.
I think your cylinder can take a 35-37 grain blackpowder charge. It is probably the same cylinder the replica makers use on their 1860 army models. To design, tool up for, manufacture, and stock a whole different cylinder would drive up costs. There was no authentic .44 1851 navy. They were all .36. So there is no reason for Pietta to just use the 1860 Army cylinder on their 1851 navy.
I think if the OP simply seats the ball until it stops hard against the powder, he will be ok. Remember there is less powder and the cap blows much of the fouling up the barrel and out the gap, away from where the ball is rammed on a revolver. Also, eight shots from each chamber is 48 shots from a revolver. Fouling may tie something else up by then.
A bigger danger is a chain fire from dirty nipples. Several chambers can go off at once. If the caps don't fit well, or if you can't seat them fully and well anymore because of fouling, then stop and clean them.
Most of the blackpowders or substitutes are pretty corrosive. Clean the gun with non-ammonia Windex or plenty of hot water and soap, then oil it. I took my revolver down and the mechanism was full of fouling, but I don't believe the old timers took their gun down every time. I think it won't rust if you just oil it. Remember not to use a petroleum based oil.
Triple F blackpowder is the grade to use. It is authentic. Pyrodex is a modern, reformulated blackpowder. The fouling doesn't build up so much as black and it is a bit more powerful. You want the P grade. Hodgdon 777 is supposed to be much stronger and you can only use 25 grains, and you can't use a filler. Never tried it. Supposedly it cleans easier.