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Cowboy Action Shooting Questions
Layne12gun
Member Posts: 178 ✭✭✭
I have never really been into CAS however the Wild Bunch match is something I would really like to do. I have the Colt Gvt. and 97 pump and a Winchester 94 in .357 I went to the range to try a match and was told that the rifle had to be a .40 caliber or larger. I was not given a reason other than its the rules!? Can ANYBODY explain why a rifle in .357 is prohibited and the reason behind the RULE??
Comments
The rules are really pretty simple."Firearms must be of the Era and Pre-1899" In checking match results it looks like the two most shot calipers in both rifle and pistol are 38 special and 45 Colt.
I would check again, and not settle for just an answer without a explanation.
RS
Since I have a Colt 1911. I thought Id try the Wild Bunch match but the rifle was the hang up.. I cant for the life of me understand why they would let .38 rifle in a SASS match but then turn around and not let you use it in a Wild Bunch Match.. Needless to say I was not happy and probably wont return. I cant afford another rifle just to play. and SASS lost a potential new member. I thought the wild bunch matches would be a hoot to shoot..
The 40 Cal or larger rifle rule happens to be one of the parameters that was decided on when Wild Bunch was being developed. Pistol is limited to .45ACP single stack M1911 or clone. No 38 Super, no 9MM or any other caliber, no Glocks, Sigs, or S&Ws - Only .45ACP M1911 or clone. The only shotgun allowed is the model 97 Winchester in 12 ga; no 16 ga, no SxS, no single shot, no any other shotgun; only the 12 ga '97 or clones.
That's what was decided by the powers that be. Sorry you don't like it; but, you need to get over it. If you want to shoot Wild Bunch, borrow or buy a .40 cal or larger rifle. Otherwise, try some other sport.
FM
I can also tell you that at any of our local clubs if you showed up without a rifle, you would have 4 loaners and ammo, in about 1 minute flat. It is the cowboy way.
I am not agreeing with this statement just trying to explain the rules for the .45 pistol and .40 cal and larger rifle requirements. I beleive they were trying to limit the ultra light loads that are used in CAS. Like I said I do not agree with this, I feel that the fast shooters are always the fast shooters regardless of Caliber or Power Factor.
I can tell you that I fell in love with Wild Bunch and now own a .45 Colt rifle as well. So definitely give it a try, and give your local club a call about using your existing rifle for a match or two at the very least.
Just something to think about.
Arnold
This thread is exactly what killed SASS for me (formerly #13999). When I first got into it it was a lot of fun, and no one really cared about anything other than range safety and over-maximum loads damaging metal targets. With the advent of money, sponsorships, and hyper-competitive whiny folks creating marshmallow loads, pushing the envelope on actions and equipment, custom this, complain about that, it got to be such a hassle that I left it to the birds.
But it was a fashion show, like usual, and everybody was always using weenie-loads, anyway. I just didn't fit, and I didn't want to. It was like being asked to join some Polo club.
Their game, their rules, and my priority for the weekends was different, I liked to look for new washouts in the canyons and draws.
JP
However, SASS (Single Action Shooting Society) is pretty much the governing body (although there are other groups who sanction their own, much smaller organized shoots) for the sport of Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS).
There is a lot I do not like about SASS, including how some clones of the Winchester 1897 were ruled illegal for the benefit of one of the "gods" because his company did not have the distributership for that gun and how some of the pals of these guys get away with certain shenanigans and how SASS is tightfisted, giving very little back to members and how they solicit donations to build structures on their private property and how so many members fall all over themselves to do free work for SASS and "kiss the rings" of the "gods." Makes me ill. But, all that is really secondary to the sport and essentially affects very few people and can be entirely ignored for the most part. Most CAS and Wild Bunch shooters just play the game.
So, having said all that.....the rules are pretty well thought out. The regular SASS rules have evolved over time to be, in my opinion, too detailed and there are too many classes or categories of shooters, but that does not prevent the rules from making good sense. I think that they do and contrary to a lot of folks, I think that there are few loopholes in them. These were developed and written by interested members and administered by interested members.
The Wild Bunch category is based pretty much on the Sam Peckinpah movie, The Wild Bunch. SASS was originally envisioned and started by a group of men who liked the movie and had grown tired of other shooting organizations, such as PDPA, USPSA, etc. They dressed in western gear and shot the old guns. It developed into SASS because CAS and later, Wild Bunch, can be enjoyed by the whole family and shooters can have fun. The owners or founders of SASS came to be known as The Wild Bunch.
With SASS being the governing body, the various clubs in the US and elsewhere in the world are usually, but not always, not-for-profit organizations affiliated with SASS, the governing body.
They do not want high powered, jacketed loads for safety purposes, due to all the targets being quite close, and to save the targets, which can hit a club's budget pretty hard to replace. The clubs can make certain of their own rules, but when running a SASS-sanctioned match, must go by the SASS rule book. Usually, though, for expediency, the SASS rule book is the go-to reference to keep peace.
The Wild Bunch Category came to be in order to hark back to the movie and that period of time in American History after the turn of the twentieth century, which post-dates the period that the CAS shooters dress and shoot to. As far as the .40 caliber or above rule, I do not know for sure, but I think it was set to keep all the weapons used big, heavy, more modern (i.e. requiremnt for the M1911) and mean, so as to keep the gritty violence evident in the movie a part of the game and to a lesser extent, limit the "gamers" from either entering the category or at least leveling that part of the playing field. But that those reasons stated are simply my opinion.
"Gamers," by the way, are those who search for or devise every possible advantage, such as smallest possible caliber and lightest possible loads or taking shortcuts that are not specifically disallowed but are unfair. That is why there are rules about calibers and bullet loads and a "Spirit of the Game" rule in both SASS CAS and Wild Bunch that specifically penalize shooters who play the game in a manner that either takes unfair advantage of the rules or lack of rules to the common detriment of other members.
While I am certainly not the definitive source for SASS history, rules, gossip, etc., I feel that what I said is essentially accurate, and those who disagree are welcome to weigh in, of course.
You can visit the SASS website and voice the questions raised here in the SASS Wire Forum if you wish. There is a link on the pages to the rulebooks, too, so you can check out the rules if you wish:
http://sassnet.com/
Click on the "forums" button on the home page.
By the way, most of the .38 caliber CAS guns are chambered in .357 Magnum, but few shooters shoot .357 loads because most folks reload and fire .38 Special brass in their guns. .38 S&W Special and .45 Colt are the two most common calibers used. You might see some shooting .357 brass, mostly due to user preference or their weapon's preference, but you can pretty much bet they are loaded down.
Most CAS (not Wild Bunch) shooters use two revolvers and a rifle all chambered in, or capable of firing, the same caliber, just like the old Westerners did.
In most matches, a shooter will expend 120 rounds of rifle/pistol ammunition and about 25 shotgun shells in the usually six stages encountered in the typical monthly match.
I hope this helps. My point in saying some of the above is to simply speak to the positive and negative aspects of the sport. It is not all clear skies and green grass, but very little in life is. The exact same positive/negative mix appears in any organization, not just SASS....it's anywhere you get a bunch of people together.
SASS boasts something like 95,000 members, but naturally some have dropped out. So let's just say 50,000 +/- active members, but who knows the real number? That is still a lot of people, though, so the game works and there are a lot of people having fun playing it.
Individual clubs usually operate under SASS rules. Most clubs will allow you to shoot the rifle or handguns you have for awhile. But they want everyone to follow the rules eventually. There are limitations on calibers in several of the other categories, the wild bunch category is not the only one that specifies a caliber larger than 40, look at Classic Cowboy, it specifies certain characteristics of the rifle that some people don't like. Layne12gun, if the sport is too expensive for you, maybe you need to take up bowling or something less expensive. Rules were made by the owners, and they don't feel they have to explain their reasoning to anyone. Their attitude and the attitude of many of the club members is, 'play by the rules or find another sport.'