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Smokeless powder in BP gun

hogpukehogpuke Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
edited November 2011 in Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting
Black powder's so stinkin' messy, are there reduced smokeless loads that can be safely used in a mechanically sound black powder lever gun or is it better to use a black powder substitute like Pyrodex, etc.?
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Comments

  • swopjanswopjan Member Posts: 3,292
    edited November -1
    black powder substitutes; that's what they're for. smokeless in a black powder weapon is usually asking for trouble, they're not made to handle smokeless powder.
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  • slumlord44slumlord44 Member Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Black powder substitutes, yes. Smokeless powder, NO! That is a good way to destroy a gun and get yourself hurt badly or killed.
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  • bambambambambambam Member Posts: 4,818 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WOAAA[:0]...Never, never, never use smokeless in a smokepole. Savage and maybe one other gun manuf. has a gun available for smokeless powder. Never use smokeless powder in any gun unless the manuf. has approved it for use. KABOOM, gun goes fling into pile of scrap[B)]

    Percussion, flint, or inline gun?
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  • jonlowerjonlower Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hank Williams and Mike Venturnio routinely used smokless in a varity of antique Sharps, Winchesters and Colts. Venturnio, of course, will not advocate or endorse this practice, and his shooting books state that. Blackpowder is not so bad as long as you use the right bullet lube and clean up with a good odor eliminating product. Grease Relief is what I recommend, they are making it again. There will be NO egg smell so Mama will be happy.

    As far as smokless, I've used it in antique colts THAT HAD SMOKLESS CYLINDERS IN THEM from a later period, say 1905. The weakest part of those guns was the cylinder. And, any gun improperly timed or skipping past a chamber will eventually blow with any powder. That said, Cowboy loads using smokless are not suitible for pre 98 Colts because the bullets are hard and will stress the tighter chamber mouths of these antiques. Post 1900 cylinders are larger at the mouth. In rifles, cowboy loads seem to work fine with no problems, but again, I WILL NOT ENDORSE THIS PRACTICE!

    jp
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  • hogpukehogpuke Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do know guys who have used REDUCED smokeless loads for years with no problems and since I already have various smokeless powders I thought I'd look into it. Thank you guys for all the information.
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  • deerslayer3deerslayer3 Member Posts: 23 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Proceed in a safe manner. Noone would like to hear of you getting hurt.
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  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,609 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do like I did, buy the Savage muzzleloader.

    Great rifle, accurate, and designed for smokeless powder.
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  • vulturevulture Member Posts: 12 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Not sure what rifle you are talking about, you call it a lever gun but refer to it as a black powder lever gun. If you are talking about an antique Winchester or Marlin, etc. then yes you can use reduced black powder equivalent smokeless loads in it, we do it all the time. The main problem with using smokeless in a cartridge firearm originally designed for a black powder cartridge is the size of the brass cartridge. Some were very large, like the 45-70, and others in that class and some smokeless powders in the small amounts you have to use don't ignite well and fillers have to be used to keep the powder back against the primer, but there are some good powders out there that work very well in these large capacity cases. I actually use a small charge of Unique powder in my .45-70 rounds I make up for my original Springfield Trapdoor infantry rifle. These rounds are a real pleasure to shoot, very little recoil in the heavy rifle and we still get some good accuracy out to 25 yards and a bit farther. I know of folks including Doctor White who designed and built black powder rifles for years who have used smokeless in muzzle loading rifles, but it is not a practice I would like to try, even once just for fun, the risks are just too high. Good luck.
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  • MMOMEQ-55MMOMEQ-55 Member Posts: 13,134
    edited November -1
    If you are going to shoot a BP weapon why would you want to use a smokeless powder?
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  • LilOsageLilOsage Member Posts: 39 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some time back a friend in Missouri sent me some photos of a guy & the gun that was loaded with smokeless powder if I recall correctly the guy lived, the gun didn't.

    It's sorta like making you're own powder, which can also be a lifestyle changing decision.
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  • EhlerDaveEhlerDave Member Posts: 5,158 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    BBL02.jpg

    Anymore questions. [:)] This was mine.
    Just smile and say nothing, let them guess how much you know.
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  • Wolf.Wolf. Member Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Do yourself and everyone else a big favor and just do not do it!!

    If you have a family, don't do it for them.
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  • melkormelkor Member Posts: 191 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have had great luck with late 1900 - 1906 Colt SAA using moly coated bullets and tightgroup at 800fps + or -.
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  • hogpukehogpuke Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you guys for all the input. I think I'll just put up with the BP mess. I druther have to spend some time & effort cleaning instead of spending the same time & effort kicking my butt for hurting an old gun. Thanks again & happy trails.
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  • JamesNorrisJamesNorris Member Posts: 23 ✭
    edited November -1
    I have been using Jim Shockey Gold in my .40/65 cartridge rifle and it only leaves a little gray dust and no odor.
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  • Hawk CarseHawk Carse Member Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What make and model of "mechanically sound black powder lever gun" do you have in mind? They are not all equivalent. I shoot nothing but nitro in my 1892.
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  • machine gun moranmachine gun moran Member Posts: 5,198
    edited November -1
    Hawk Carse gives you the right direction. Thoroughly research the gun first (along with having a professional inspection done). Otherwise, you may add your hat to hundreds of others that are already in orbit.
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  • HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998 ✭
    edited November -1
    Just use Hodgedon 777 - cleans up with water, and doesn't stink. EZ!

    And Safe!
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  • hogpukehogpuke Member Posts: 32 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks Handload. I'll try it. Same proportions as black powder?
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  • gotstolefromgotstolefrom Member Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Black Powder may be 'stinkin messy' to you, but how can you say it stinks ?

    It Smells good, like good memories...
    So , don't use smokeless in any gun that's not designed for it.

    Black Powder Stinks.....geeez !
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  • redhead71redhead71 Member Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The cleaning of blackpowder, the smell of blackpowder, and the overall experince of shooting blackpowder is why you do it,
    But also NEVER NEVER use smokless powder in a bp gun if you do say goodbye to gun and possible your face and arms? Just my 2cents worth!
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  • HandLoadHandLoad Member Posts: 15,998 ✭
    edited November -1
    @hogpuke: I use the Pre-Formed Pellets, but if you use the Loose stuff (Cheapest form) then follow Mfgr's suggestions.
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