HELP WITH MUZZLE LOADER GROUPING

diver1

First let me thank you for your help. I have a knight disc 50 cal. rifle. I have had this rifle many years and bought it new, but only shoot it during the run up to Muzzle Loader season. I have not treated this rifle as well as my center fire guns. I have never been able to group shots with this gun, but blamed it on my skill level. I have been working with this gun for three weeks straight and still seem to be all over the place. I would like to prefect my skills with this gun, but I think that my gun dosen't like the Hogdon pellets ( not triple seven)or the sabot rounds that I am using. I am shooting from a stable bench at approx. 100yds.I have a new Nikon scope mounted at the shooting range. I use 2 pellets = to 100gr. I think the gun was design to shoot 150gr, could this be part of the problem ? In the past I always cleaned the rifle and shot a fowlng shoot before punching the paper. I now clean after every shot at the range, but this has not helped at all. I would appreciate any suggestions on ammo or technigue. I just realized I asked the same question last year, I am reviewing the answers now, but if there are any new answers I would be thankful. Vince

pirate2501

I also have a Knight 50 cal disc rifle with a Nikon 3x9 Pro Staff scope. I use 777 pellets (90 gr) loads at 50 yds. I'm happy to get the shots in a 9" paper plate. Same results with sabots and round balls. Clean the barrel after every 5 shots.

1935Lee

you might try fire lapping the barrel www.neconos.com/details2.htm
I've had good luck with this procedure on large bore rifles

bambambam

Check your stock to metal fit...

I did some adjustments to a CVA snytheic stock/bolt action reciever and it made a BIG diffrence.

allen griggs

No it isn't designed for 150 grains. No .50 can burn that much powder.
Companies advertise "150 gr magnum loads" it is advertising hype.

Ditch those pellets and try loose powder.

Some guns love 80 grains, but will not be nearly as accurate with 100.

Try 3 shots with 70 grains, then 3 shots with 80, then 3 with 90.
Swab the barrel real good between shots and let the gun cool for a few minutes between shots.

If that doesn't work try a different sabot. Here again, one rifle may be accurate with a particular sabot, but the next rifle will do better with a different one.

DONDALINGER

I have owned several top of the line muzzleloaders and never been able to achieve "consistent" accuracy with sabots[xx(]. I had a Thompson Encore, a Remington bolt action and a Thompson Thunderhawk. The sabots accuracy were just too inconsistent in all the guns. I now shoot a Lyman Mustang. All of these guns shoot very well with conicals. I am currently shooting Hornady Great Plains bullets with great consistent accuracy and have also had great results with the TC MaxiBall and Maxihunter conicals. I use 70 grains of loose 777 and never had any issues. I have yet to see any muzzleloader that could outshoot mine at 100 yards using sabots against my conicals. Good luck.

Don

BGHillbilly

If you just want accuracy, try 30 grains with a patched ball, should try it for fun at about 25 yds. My best results have been with 90 grains loose powder and TC Maxiballs.

RRConductor

I've been shooting muzzle-loaders in competition for over 20 years (NSSA). If you want real accuracy, you'll need to pull the breachplug and slug your bore so that you know the true bore diameter. I know that your rifle says it's a 50 caliber, but is it a TRUE 50, or is it .515, or a .508? The only way you'll find out is to slug the bore and measure the slug with a micrometer.

After you determine that actual bore diameter, you'll need to cast or buy bullets that fit your bore. For a .50 caliber gun. I always had good luck with maxi-balls, which were actually a bit oversized for the land-to-land diameter, but were exactly the same as the groove-to-groove diameter. They are a bit difficult to load, but are worth the effort.

The next thing you need to do is determine what powder charge works best in your gun. Get rid of those pellets, and start using REAL honest-to-God black powder. For hunting, I'd start with about 80 grains, and move up from there in 2-grain steps. My Harpers Ferry rifle shoots bullet holes touching at 50 yards with 42 grains, but with 44 grains the group opens up to about 5 inches. This step is simply trial and error, and may take a while. But shooting is fun, so if you have to spend the whole weekend working up a load for your rifle, at least you had fun doing so.

And remember, shooting a front-stuffer ain't like shooting a modern gun. There's a lot more dedication and hard work involved in getting your gun to shoot the way you want it to. If this is too much work for you, then you'd best go back to your Model 70 in .308.

allen griggs

Not only will your rifle not burn 150 grains but you don't need near that much powder to kill deer.

I have killed a half dozen deer and hogs with 70 grains of black powder.
Always got a through and through lung shot with that load.
I also have had a lot of success with 80 grains of powder. This was with my TC Hawken and my home made Tennessee Mountain Rifle from Dixie, shooting round ball.

I do have a Savage muzzleloader now shooting smokeless powder, and it is extremely accurate with sabots. I use the 250 gr TC Shockwave.
I get 1 1/2 inch groups with that sabot.

Your rifle may be accurate with the elongated slugs but will not shoot well with hunting loads with round ball.

Those Knight Disc rifles have a reputation for very good accuracy so do some leg work with the good info you have gotten here, and let's see some 1 1/2 inch groups! Your rifle is certainly capable of that.

steve45

I bought a Knight Bighorn for a Elk hunting rifle and had accuracy problems with it as well. It would group the first two shots OK (4"-6" at 100 yd)and then they could go anywhere. To clean this rifle you had to remove the trigger assy and the stock. I did get OK groups by cleaning every shot but that was a pain. I had a friend who bought a Cabellas Traditions Lightning (special rifle and scope $99.00). He could load it and shoot 20 times without cleaning and get very good accuracy. I bought a more expensive version of the Traditions Lightning rifle and got good accuracy (1 1/2" to 2") with several different sabots. I also bought a Thompson Center Omega thats very accurate and consistant. I sold the Knight. It never shot well for me. All loads with all rifles were from 80 to 100 gr of Pyrodex Select and later with 777 and 300 gr Sabots.

Joes Custom Guns

I have a KNIGHT DISC. SUPREME and I shoot 150grs and 209 MAGNUM Primmers with 295gr. Power Belt.
Mine will do dime sise groups at 50yds. M O A at 100yds.

quote:Originally posted by allen griggs
No it isn't designed for 150 grains. No .50 can burn that much powder.
Companies advertise "150 gr magnum loads" it is advertising hype.

Ditch those pellets and try loose powder.

Some guns love 80 grains, but will not be nearly as accurate with 100.

Try 3 shots with 70 grains, then 3 shots with 80, then 3 with 90.
Swab the barrel real good between shots and let the gun cool for a few minutes between shots.

If that doesn't work try a different sabot. Here again, one rifle may be accurate with a particular sabot, but the next rifle will do better with a different one.

mjbmxz

I was in the same boat. Had to try different powders and different bullets. I keep finding something better than before. I started out with 6 inch groups at 50yds and now at 6 inch groups at 100yds. I'm still workin on it. [:D]

minitruck83

quote:Originally posted by Joes Custom Guns
I have a KNIGHT DISC. SUPREME and I shoot 150grs and 209 MAGNUM Primmers with 295gr. Power Belt.
Mine will do dime sise groups at 50yds. M O A at 100yds.


That's a 26" bbl, right?
Have you shot it over snow?


Allen