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County clerk resigns...
Doc
Member Posts: 13,899 ✭✭✭
Cleburne Co., AR clerk resigns rather than issue marriage licenses. This is going to be an issue that deeply divides America for a very long time.
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Too old to live...too young to die...
Too old to live...too young to die...
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Cleburne Co., AR clerk resigns rather than issue marriage licenses. This is going to be an issue that deeply divides America for a very long time.
At least two or more in Kentucky has refused to issue any.
Cleburne Co., AR clerk resigns rather than issue marriage licenses. This is going to be an issue that deeply divides America for a very long time.
It is difficult to think of another time in US history when division was used to attain political objectives.
My mind keeps asking what's next.
One radio talk show host nailed it when he said, you will never satisfy the left. The left will always want and demand more.
He realized he could no longer do his job and rather than crying to big brother, he was a man and resigned.
If his faith does not allow him to do it, I applaud him. There will be any number of people to take his place and as this is a government position, I see no reason for division of any kind.
The division will come as private business owners are compelled to supply products and services to which they object. If the lower courts do not side with those that have faith-based objections, there will be a supreme court challenge that will set up either a real division or a confirmation that the free exercise of religion means that one does not have to do that with which he objects.
Brad Steele
Sounds like the clerk was an adult about it.
He realized he could no longer do his job and rather than crying to big brother, he was a man and resigned.
If his faith does not allow him to do it, I applaud him. There will be any number of people to take his place and as this is a government position, I see no reason for division of any kind.
The division will come as private business owners are compelled to supply products and services to which they object. If the lower courts do not side with those that have faith-based objections, there will be a supreme court challenge that will set up either a real division or a confirmation that the free exercise of religion means that one does not have to do that with which he objects.
Makes sense, but if the issue does go to the current SCOTUS, Those of faith can't stand the answer.
Makes sense, but if the issue does go to the current SCOTUS, Those of faith can't stand the answer.
At some point, it is my hope that people of principle will stand up to the tyranny of tolerance. If we become a nation where to own a business means you have to accept and support that which goes against your religious beliefs, we no longer understand the very essence of freedom.
I avoid samesexuals that make it a point to display their sexual orientation. It is not that they are samesexual, it is that they have allowed it to become their identity.
I have the right to avoid these people, and freedom dictates that government cannot force me to not avoid them.
Brad Steele
If your religious beliefs prevent you from doing your job, I suppose that you shouldn't hold that job.
As far as I'm concerned, if the most interesting thing about you is what you want to have sex with, you must be one hell of a boring person...
I agree mostly with Don on this; the job is "ministerial" - if you work for the government, and your job is to issue marriage licenses, and the people qualify, that is it - you have to issue the license. If you don't you can seek what is called a "writ of mandamus", which is a court order compelling ministerial action.
If your religious beliefs prevent you from doing your job, I suppose that you shouldn't hold that job.
As far as I'm concerned, if the most interesting thing about you is what you want to have sex with, you must be one hell of a boring person...
It reminds me a little of the case here in SoCal where a vegetarian bus driver refused to hand out coupons for free hamburgers because he beliefs did not allow eating meat:
http://articles.latimes.com/1996-06-06/news/mn-12324_1_bus-driver
"I told them that I don't eat dead cows and no one else needs to either," said Anderson, a strict vegetarian whose beliefs also preclude him from eating dairy products or wearing leather. "I told them that I wouldn't support Carl's Jr. in their slaughtering of cows."
Transportation officials were not amused.
Half an hour later, according to Anderson, transit authority officials met him at a bus stop with a replacement driver, ordered him off the bus in front of his passengers and suspended him indefinitely without pay for insubordination. Anderson makes $16.60 an hour.
"It was embarrassing," Anderson said. "I'm paid to drive a bus, not sit there and hand out coupons for something I don't believe in."
Cleburne Co., AR clerk resigns rather than issue marriage licenses. This is going to be an issue that deeply divides America for a very long time.
One really has to admire such convictions.
So when the county revises their form and removes the Bride/Groom designations, the clerk has grounds for action. If the county is farsighted, they won't stop at "person 1, person 2" they'll go all the way to "object 1, object 2".
Low level government offices are often a stepping stone to higher office.
one lady said she was against it but her job was to issue license and although she thought it wrong . she would do her job
just like what will happen when the time comes to take our firearms is my guess , I do not want to buts its my job [V]
?
If you are a preacher don
t marry them if you work for the state you issues the license for the state not you personally.
MO
This is the kind of situation you find yourself in when you go poling around in somebody's business which ain't none of yours.
Is a ceremony provided by the city/county? Is one required?
What's the point?
Hand them the piece of paper and collect their $50.
Next.
I'm still wondering how and why the U. S. Government got into the marriage business in the first place. Marriage is the business of religion. I think the county governments have dropped the claim it was to prevent the spread of syphilis and gonorrhea, so that would leave taxes and fees, which should be barred by the First Amendment.
This is the kind of situation you find yourself in when you go poling around in somebody's business which ain't none of yours.
I viewed going to the local government center to get a marriage license as nothing more than a tax, plain and simple.
I understand that with social security and other government and non-government benefits, knowing quite clearly who marries whom is quite important. Still, it seemed rather odd and disheartening to have to ask some bored clerk and judge permission to marry.
1. Quit.
2. Get fired.
3. File some sort of a grievance.
4. Piss and moan on the TV news.
5. Higher a lawyer and sue.
6. Grow up and do the damned job already.
7. "Go Postal" (not just for USPS workers anymore)
8. Practice signing your bosses signature and make subtle mistakes on marriage licenses that will mean the people aren't really married after all.
9. Chain yourself to your desk and go on a hunger strike.
10. Begin a sexual liaison with your boss and several higher ranking officials so they wouldn't dare fire you or even expect you to do any work at all ... except for, um, well you know [}:)][;)].
If a government worker does not want to perform the work they are emplyed to perform, there are few options available.
1. Quit.
2. Get fired.
3. File some sort of a grievance.
4. Piss and moan on the TV news.
5. Higher a lawyer and sue.
6. Grow up and do the damned job already.
7. "Go Postal" (not just for USPS workers anymore)
8. Practice signing your bosses signature and make subtle mistakes on marriage licenses that will mean the people aren't really married after all.
9. Chain yourself to your desk and go on a hunger strike.
10. Begin a sexual liaison with your boss and several higher ranking officials so they wouldn't dare fire you or even expect you to do any work at all ... except for, um, well you know [}:)][;)].
Under normal circumstances you would have some valid points, but in this situation the government has changed the rules in the middle of the game.
How would you like to sign on to herd cattle and after a year or two the boss changes the job to riding bulls?
quote:Originally posted by ChrisInTempe
If a government worker does not want to perform the work they are emplyed to perform, there are few options available.
1. Quit.
2. Get fired.
3. File some sort of a grievance.
4. Piss and moan on the TV news.
5. Higher a lawyer and sue.
6. Grow up and do the damned job already.
7. "Go Postal" (not just for USPS workers anymore)
8. Practice signing your bosses signature and make subtle mistakes on marriage licenses that will mean the people aren't really married after all.
9. Chain yourself to your desk and go on a hunger strike.
10. Begin a sexual liaison with your boss and several higher ranking officials so they wouldn't dare fire you or even expect you to do any work at all ... except for, um, well you know [}:)][;)].
Under normal circumstances you would have some valid points, but in this situation the government has changed the rules in the middle of the game.
How would you like to sign on to herd cattle and after a year or two the boss changes the job to riding bulls?
I go back and forth on this. I can see quitting if you don't like it, or perhaps better asking to be transferred to other duties.
At the same time, you're doing a job and if the boss tells you to do something, then you need to do it. If a whole lot of people in this world suddenly started choosing which rules to follow and which to ignore, anarchy would reign. We all agree to play by the rules of the Constitution, and it would seem quite clearly that the judges have made their ruling.
I am reminded of the old line: May you be cursed to live in interesting times.
Certainly I've no objection if the boss or bosses want to shift people around within the range of duties they are capable of. Some of which may not involve dealing with the public. That's fine.
Even so, if it gets down to there is no one there but the clerk to perform the task when citizens walk through the door all ready, willing and able to meet the requirements of the law, do the job or get out.
Hats off to Kimble county Texas!
They said no.[^]
+1
Yes judge, I did kill those Jews; but it was the law of the land, so I had to do it- or quit my job and let my family starve- what would you have done?
Uh, yeah, right, cuz wholesale slaughter of men, women, children and babies compares so very well to Marriage.
Yesterday on local Bham channel 6 news, a judge stated that the SCOTUS order does not go into effect for 25 days thereby giving the States time to file appeals, etc, etc.
I think they should be allowed to marry any animal they wish. I can imagine one picking out a very ugly sheep. duh.
After all, it's their "mud channel".
added:
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/07/some_southern_marriage_license.html#incart_river
Guess the guy in GA who was arrested for making "whoopee" with his miniature donkey has grounds for appeal.
Pretty fair delineation of the difference between religions. A Christian sacrifices his job and quietly steps away. A Muslim would loudly, publicly, and brutally kill the applicants.
Also telling regarding the difference in attitude of this person and those that he/she would serve.
Lesbosexuals would, as proven in a number of court cases, force a person to do something to which they objected. This person simply moved on.
Brad Steele
The whole problem with this whole religious conviction nonsense is that it allows the holder of the conviction to decide where he or she is going to draw the line.
If someone is divorced, and getting remarried, isn't that against someone's religious beliefs? Do you issue a marriage license to that person?
James, I agree. The whole issue of marriage was a contract, historically. And once the state starts giving benefits to a group of people, and denying them to another, there's going to be a problem.
Exactly...the problem began when gov't started treating married couples differently than unmarried couples.
The "religious exemption" that is now being pushed is also doomed from the start because people are too short sighted to see it's inherent flaw.
Why would a Christian baker be protected from baking a marriage cake because of his personal beliefs, but the atheist or agnostic who also objects would not?
Why is it that a Christian's deeply held beliefs are more important than a non-Christian?
Think I'll apply for a lic to marry cat. Always wanted a little fussy.
Animal cruelty laws have not been repealed. If a person were to do that, I would advise a city clerk to issue the license and promptly report the matter to the police. So they could be on hand to arrest the deviant animal rapist.
Me thinks that county clerks / employees work for the government - NOT for themselves, or their particular sect / denomination / church / religi?n.
The Law of the Nation is darn clear and trumps an individual's drather this or drather that.
IF a Clerk does NOT want, or choose, or desire to perform their legal duties - quit the job, get out, get gone.