Loading info question for 44 Special/44 Magnum
dreher
Member Posts: 8,892 ✭✭✭✭
I have bunches of reloading manuals, I have online sites I use and can come up with reloading data for just about any round I would want to load. Except for loading 44 Special loads using 44 Mag brass. So here are my problems:
Number one: I don't have any 44 Special brass, and as you know, now is not the time to buy any brass.
Number two: I can no longer shoot 44 mag loads. (Actually, I can, but the price I pay in sore hands isn't worth it.)
My solution: Load up mild 44 Special loads using 44 Mag brass. Easy peasy, right?? Except I can't find load data for 44 Special loads using 44 Mag brass. Like you, I have heard the horror stories about what can happen with an incorrect reduced powder charge. I have no interest in an exciting/scary moment while shooting my 44 Redhawk so I want some load data I can trust.
My components will consist of Speer .429, 270 grain bullets. Powder options will be Win 296, Unique, IMR 4227 and Blue Dot. These are probably not the ideal options but as all of you know buying bullets or powder at this time is either expensive or impossible. Now is the time when you have to shoot with what you got.
I'm looking for a load that will push that 270 grain bullet 700 - 750 FPS. Any info in the way of sites to go to or personal knowledge that give me what I'm seeking would be appreciated.
Although I am loading these up as something to play with when I go plinking with my 22s, I think these would make excellent self defense rounds. A .429, 270 grain bullet at 700 FPS I'm sure would go straight through even the biggest man.
Comments
look up a load formula for trail boss. there are also several web sites that discuss how to do what you want.
The Lyman Reloading Handbook 47th ed. has loads for a 275 gr. Linotype bullet at velocities 667 to 879 fps.
I second Trailboss for a reduced powder load but I am not sure if it can be used with anything but cast lead bullets.
I would start at 8.8gr of Unique and work down to 8.2 or 8.0 grains. Do the shooting over a chronograph inspect your brass and I think I would use Winchester Large Pistol primers for either mag or regular load. That will insure good ignition.
My General purpose plinking load was a cast 250gr Keith type bullet and 10gr of Unique, this was back in the old days when unique was so dirty but it was cheap and went a long was at 10gr a pop.
I would stay away from reducing 296 and I am not a bluedot fan in large cases, its good in a 38spl but it gets lost in 44 mag case. If I was going to do it it would from 11-14 grains and I would work down like above. I will say that Bluedot will work better with jacketed bullets but its going to have some extreme spreads unless used at close to max load.
These are just my suggestions and I would do some real reaserch before using them. I have been reloading since 1975 so although I am by no means an expert but I still have 2 eyes, 10 fingers and no blown up guns.
I agree with Unique at the 8.0-8.5 range for reduced recoil with heavy bullets. Going to a lighter bullet will allow more FPS with less recoil.
Agree with several of the above. Do NOT use 296 - it's for full magnum loads and should not be reduced.
Compare 44S with 44M loads using Unique or Blue Dot; there will certainly be some overlap in the charges listed, and you can feel safe operating within that overlap. Adjust slightly until you get the Special speeds and comfort levels. Done.
Wondering if you can't find any load data because the special case is shorter than the magnum, and maybe the powder charge for the smaller special case reacts differently in the larger case.
Unique is your friend.
Normally I would buy some 44 Special brass, pick a 180 or 200 grain bullet, to make a light recoiling load. Then I would hit the 44 Special loading data. Once I found what I wanted, if I didn't have that powder, I would go out and buy some of that powder. These are not normal times. The bullet and powders I listed are what I got.
Toad67, yup, that is exactly my situation. No Special cases, only the longer 44 mag cases.
So looking at above, 296 is out unless, I want to hotrod things, which I don't. Blue Dot is probably out. That means Unique or 4227. Nobody has said anything about 4227. I used to use a lot of 4227 loading 44 Mag cases. Any thoughts on 4227 in a Special case??
Also I don't have a chronograph so I use the load data in the manuals at well below max charges.
Come on man!
If you reload you need a chronograph! They are not that expensive and you can get a cheap one, put it on a tripod and have a ball.
4227 powder is not conductive to light loads like you are looking for. Its a great powder for 357 but I have never liked it in the 44mag.
Again look for some trailboss or some Accurate #5. I really like AA#5 because it loads really good in 45 acp and mid-range 44 mag loads. Not quite as light as you want but its a good powder and it meters well in my 550.
I have re-discovered Unique as an all around powder for less tha full house loads in several calibers. If I could have only one powder for pistols, Unique would be it.
Unique is a great powder and a very old one. It used to be really dirty but the new formula is not too bad.
I cannot believe this has not been moved to the reloading forum. One mention of the pres and ...........Bam its moved this has coasted along for a lone time.
I am impressed.
as some one else said Lyman's 47th edition , shows for a 275gr. lead (Linotype) # 429640 1.700" OAL,, IMR 4227 19.5 @ 726fps starting load and Blue Dot 13.2 @ 685fps starting load,, Unique 9.5 @700fps ,, these where in Remington cases with a CCI 300 primer and the bullets where gas checked .. Universal receiver with a 4" barrel
After years of following this forum, but never posting, here goes. The one tenth of an inch is pretty much insignificant, and if one is truly * it can be trimmed off with a case trimmer. For years I took the mag brass that had been belled and crimped many times and shortened it to special length. It worked perfectly.
After 11 years of running Lolo Sporting Goods I am out the door this coming Wednesday, so it is safe to post. You guys could not take much of me.
Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your retirement. Let us be the judge if we can stand you or not, stick around and post some more.
is this your site? The store looks good.
http://lolosportinggoods.com/
That be us, soon to be that be them. The store has been operating as a gun store since 1954. Jack and Elmer used to be patrons.
nice looking place ! old building like that, bet it has some history to it
I was just in there last Wednesday. What a difference a year makes. Best of luck moving forward.
I was just gonna post about the feasibility of shortening mag cases. My Hornady manual does not show a 44 mag. load under 1100fps.
BTW, nice site and great looking store. I love places like that. I thought at first you were near the town of Lolo.
pingjockyey, Mark is going to continue running the store. Mikey is going to come back to work. I do not want to retire, but this week I hit the income point where income taxes make it prohibitive to continue working. The last few years have been rough on taxes, and with the new Communist in Chief, it is only going to get worse.
If you know me, last November I finished the house I was building. This spring is going to be spent putting in the garden, building retaining walls for landscaping, and building a shop. I have a barrel in the lathe waiting to be chambered, and two more to go before I tear the current shop down and move the equipment to the new soon to be built shop. I have enough to do to keep me busy for years. In fact, if I keep active and die at 120 years of age, I will still have plenty to do.
HPD, we are just down the road on Hwy 12 from Lolo MT. A couple of years ago, it took twenty one days for a check I mailed to reach a seller in Lolo MT.
The store today looks like one of the stores in the Walking Dead series. There is little left in inventory. Where years before we ran 200- 300 guns on GB per week, now we only have less than a dozen most weeks.
I hate trimming brass but that is an option.
Yep, I agree. Late last year I made about 250 pieces of 6.5-06 from 270 Win. brass. It all had to be shortened almost 1/16". Quite a chore, but I had never "made" cases before, so that was kinda cool.
I have a tight neck 6mm BR and turning necks is about the worst job in the world, trimming brass #2.
dreher I have 40 Hornady 44 special spent cartridges and another 100 spent that were previously reloaded (I don't know how many times, I bought the shells at a gun show) total of 140 in 44 special that can be reloaded I assume...
I have been saving all my spent cartridges for awhile and was cleaning up yesterday and was thinking of doing a give away here since like you my hands are getting old and I always thought i was gonna get into reloading but with the price of equipment and my hands not cooperating, I thought I'd post a give away for all of my spent shells, Mostly 9mm, some 44 mag and 22LR and some 5.56.
Then I saw this post of yours and figured if you want the specials you can have them, just send me a message and later today I'll post a message on the give away for the rest, need to count the others before I post.
Ruger4me, we think alike!! The bulk of my centerfire handguns are Ruger's, all of my 22 LRs are Ruger's but when it comes to bolt action centerfire rifles I'm a Savage man.
If you want to rid of your 44 special brass let me know what you want for them!!
Jack and Elmer shopped there?? OMG! That makes Lolo Sporting Goods holy ground!!
Why don't you utilize the data and components you have for .44 Special and just seat the bullets .100" deeper?
I may get flamed for suggesting that, but I've done it with no adverse effect.
dreher no charge, not trying to sell or trade anything, just PM me address to send to, I'll post a give away tonight or tomorrow morning for the others. As for centerfire handguns all are Rugers, long guns, Winchester lever 44 Mag, Rugers in 5.56 Savage bolt in 22LR, a recently purchase Ruger SS in 22LR and the odd sks, 30.06 and a Marlin 30-30 along with a few pistol caliber carbines in 9mm probably some others I can't think of right now like shot guns etc.....LOL
2 cents.
The 44 mag cases will never know you have loaded them with 44 special loads.
I see no need to be concerned with pressure or other issues.
Been stuffing my own loads for 50 plus years so I think "I know a thing or 2".
I seem to recall my MidwayUSA Loadmap book for 44 magnum listing loads in increments, a few of which went down to 12,000 psi, which is 44 special territory.
I can hook you up with some 44 Spl brass if you want some. That said, If you can possibly get hold of some Titegroup, this powder is not position sensitive in the case. I use Titegroup for ALL of my target pistol loads, (380, 9mm, 38 spl, 10mm, 41 mag, 44 spl, 45 colt) with the possible exception of 45 AR which I use 231 (HP-38 same powder). If Titegroup will work in 45 Colt, it will work in a 44 mag case. If you are local to me (MN) I can get you going with the brass and powder.
I thank you for the generous offer but another member is sending me some 44 Special brass. So I guess I'll be able to use my loading manuals after all!! Thanks all!!