Dog behavior question!! I need some advice.
dreher
Member Posts: 8,891 ✭✭✭✭
The problem is my two Border Collies fighting with each other. I know all about a dogs desire for dominance, about the alpha, beta and omega rankings. All my life I have watched dogs fight and know the fight is usually over very quickly, with one dog rolling over on its back and submitting to the other dog. I've been telling Momma that the fighting will cease once dominance is established but this doesn't seem to be happening.
My dogs are both spayed females. One is 7 and one is 2. Both are normal BCs, very bullheaded and desirous of dominance. Where the problems arise are that neither is willing to "roll over" or submit to the other. As a result the fighting is escalating and getting more violent. Momma is not happy and as you know if Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.
Yesterday the fight started in the house, it's usually outside, and the 2 year old managed to break the skin on the older dogs ear. All of you know how an ear bleeds. There was blood everywhere. Talk about Momma not being happy!! Momma keeps a spotless house. Blood all over is a mortal sin to Momma and there were words spoken to both dogs and myself that good Christian women are not even supposed think, much less say out loud!!! 😁
I keep thinking this will play itself out but it doesn't seem to be the case. Three days ago the fight was outside and the dogs went rolling through one of Momma's hibiscus plants breaking the hibiscus in half as it is in full bloom. Between the blood and the hibiscus Momma is about ready dig a large hole in the garden and "plant" the three of us.
Any thoughts???
Comments
Shock Collar training?
get rid of one....... get male
I tried having two woman in the same house once too never works out
You need to dominate them.
This. /\ /\ /\ /\. You need to be the pack leader. Next time you see them fighting, step in and raise H.E. double toothpicks! Caution, of course, but loud and angry caution, until you see that submission you've been waiting for. Since neither will yield to the other, make them yield to you. It'll probably take several times but they're a smart breed. Again, use boisterous caution.
Don't just dominate when they're fighting. Be the alpha when you feed them, when you put them outside, whenever you interact with them.
Had similar situation years ago, only wife tried to stop the fighting and got bit on the hand pretty bad.... you either do as said above and be the alpha or also as said above * rid of one of the females, it is very hard to have two female dogs in the same pack that won't be submissive... good luck.
...Ive had Border Collies...fantastic best buddies, some of the best, but...with two of same sex, male/male, female/female, you'll probably always have problems...try putting a muzzle on BOTH of them for a couple of days, they wont like it...but oh well...after a couple of days take off the muzzle...at the FIRST sign of a fight, muzzle them again...shouldnt take but a few times with a muzzle and hopefully they will get the "message", and any friction from then on will only end up with a growl and them not fighting...they are super smart...
"BFS" (bored female syndrome)
Sooner or later one will win the argument and the other will probably become depressed and die if left under the dominance of the winner. We have 2 large aggressive livestock guard dog females. When the younger one reached maturity, she attacked and injured the older (her Grandmother) dog so now the two can't be used together or within sight of each other.
I have two HEINZ 57 siblings (male & female) that are both neutered. They squabble constantly over food, dog house, whatever but it's far worse when they have to stay penned up for long periods.
Yes they are super smart. They know that because of my stroke I can't move fast enough to get to them. As a result, when on the leash they act like well trained obedience trial dogs. Absolutely perfect. They need no correction but take the leash off and they both know they can do what ever they want.
99% of the time they play together and are each others best buddies. Getting rid of one is not an option. The problem I have with being the alpha is I know exactly what to do since me and high bred Borders have a fifty year history but my strength issues prevent me from doing what I need to do effectively. Borders require a "firm" hand because they have to have a boss, a firm hand being being defined as x number of swats upside the head. But my strength is such that when I do get after them they shrug it off.
A few months ago I did wear out a Guns and Ammo on my older dogs butt. I still have the strength issues but the whack sound from the magazine seemed to work for a while. If I could get Momma to get "firm" with them that would really help but Momma is a softie.
So far I like the muzzle idea. Any and all thoughts will be entertained.
A shock collar used properly is very effective.
Yep. Probably loads of YouTube videos on the process.
Yep. They can be beta and charlie, you need to be alpha and alpha dictates what's allowed.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Gotcha. In that case the shock collar is your best bet. But if you can get mama in line that would be preferable. You need to have a heart to heart with her that one of the dogs is going to get hurt by the other, require medical attention and big $$ to get fixed up, and like said above once it gets dominated properly by the other dog it's going to be miserable the rest of its days. Best get the two dogs in line at the same time. I highly recommend putting them to the floor by the throat, maybe biting an ear. Otherwise the shock collar... on long and hard every time fighting happens... is your only other recourse. Ask mama what she'd prefer.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I enjoyed the life of just one female Australian Sheppard. We had a couple of other dogs during her life with us, one Lasso Apso male and one Yorkshire Terrier also a male. Coco the Aussy got along just fine with the pair and spent countless hours herding them along with 2 of my kids when they were younger. She was a great family pet and I swear she would have given her life if any of our household was to come to any danger.
I had a few occasions that I witnessed her defensive\aggressive side when she came in contact with any outsiders she did not like. One of my visiting brothers was one of those and I had to take command with her and show he was no threat. She submitted and was good on future visits but she always growled softly to let me know something about him wasn't quite up to par with her.
I loved that dog and look forward to seeing her again on the other side. The breed is very special but the folks that adopt them have to match up to their needs.
Corrections need to be timely and strong enough to register. Given that neither Alpha member can effectively enforce their status, shock collars would seem to be the option (which also keeps you out of harm's way). Not seeing any other practical solution short of using a professional trainer.
listen to Yonson
Make sure you control them in the daily activity. They want in the house? Sit. Come in one at a time, YOU choose which. They want out? Same thing. Time to eat? They come and sit quietly while you prepare the food and put the bowls on the ground, they don’t move a muscle until you “release” them. They sit and stay whenever you tell them too, for any or no reason. A snap of the fingers is enough to get their attention then you command them. Combine hand signals with spoken commands. Get in the habit of using a sharp “hsssst!” sound when they’re stepping out of line, with an immediate correction. For some reason they hate that sound.
i have two grown female Pitbulls and they’re competitive with each other but if I even clear my throat they stop and look at me. Fist up and they sit. Flat palm, stay. Point down? Down and stay. They know I will rain hell on them if they’re not immediately and fully obedient, and I have to reinforce it multiple times every day.
Reinforce it with the “hsssst!” then stride purposefully to them, eye contact the whole time, SIT! then get right in their face, like inches away, and repeat your command loudly, invade their personal space maintaining eye contact, then hand signal and “help” them do the action you commanded. Long pause...... wait a moment, then it’s a happy dog party because they’re such a good girl. Don’t leave them thinking you’re mad at them, they have no idea why.
Be consistent with this, so there is no question who’s the boss, and that makes them content in their stratum. Upside is, we go for walks and people are astounded at what good, happy, friendly dogs a Pit can be. MUST be.
Great advice from Nanuq - he must have watched Cesar Millan's "Dog Whisperer" programs when they were aired, as I did. Dogs, like horses, are always looking for strong leadership. In its absence, instinct tells them to provide it (never a good idea when humans are part of the pack). If the dog needed correction, Cesar gave it a quick jab in the ribs, which was the equivalent of a soft bite from mother to pup to get its attention.
You need to bring in the dog whisperer.