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Timber harvest and Dept of Conservation questions
susie
Member Posts: 7,602 ✭✭✭✭
It's time to harvest the Timber off the big farm. Probably looking at 40 acres of hardwoods. Aunt is thinking about using the Missouri Dept of Conservation and Forest Service folks.
They would walk the property, identify which trees to harvest, place the Timber for bid and let us choose the winning contractor. We would have to agree to a long term Timber management plan.
Has anyone used these type of services? Pros? Cons? This farm belongs to all of us and is where we deer hunt occasionally, spring turkey hunt, fish and take the younger generation for fun.
Comments
You might consider hiring a private forester to do the same thing. I always think it's a bad idea to give the gov't access to, or control as to what happens on your property. They already have enough of that, I would not freely give them more.
Agree with HPD, leave big brother out of it as much as possible. Imagine how much things could change in the future if you were in contract with them. Also, since when did govt get involved with setting up the sale of private stuff?
I have a tree farm and it is enrolled in the Managed Forest Plan with the State of Wisc. Ive belonged for over 30 years. It is a great program and saves tax money to boot. They have two tax structures with one you can keep your land private and the other public access. Right now the log market is terrible deslpite the price of lumber being very high. Find a good market before you cut a tree.
My father had a private contractor remove 50 acres of timber suitable for the sawmill. When finished they removed the ‘slash’ and you hardly knew they were there ,,,,,,,, professionals all the way. And a tidy sum in the bank account.
No way was the government involved.
I'd keep the gubmint as far away from my family business as possible. Just sayin'.
Usually the forestry in the state can advise. They will also help you reset the new trees after the others are removed.
I would get about three estimates.
......😊
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
In Pa ,the timber cutters will cut your trees and also sneak over your property line and take some of your neighbors trees too. Its always just an accidental misunderstanding. The state has a special penalty for that. I think it's triple the value of the trees.
Don't enter into a long term anything with the (any) Government, for one thing you don't know what their "management plan" might be in the years to come.
Somewhere down the line there will be a screw job that you never saw coming and they will politely explain how you have already agreed to it when you signed up.
I own a tree farm and use a private Forester to certify that I am managing the farm so that I get a 95% tax exemption from the Town.
The Forester has been good as he has given me really good advice on how to manage the property to get the best production of trees on the property.
We have about 50 acres. The Forester has delineated parcels based on the type of soil and what trees will grow best in each delineated section. It interesting to know what tress will grow best in each area. He also helps us to manage harvests and how to manage for best wildlife habitat.
Now I am most doing what we commercial thinning. This helps to open up the forest to get more sunlight to trees that are just starting. I go through each area to harvest the trees that will not be best for that area.
For long term planning a good Forester will be very helpful.
2 cents, clear cut everything, logs for lumber/ veneer and everything else chipped and sold. Looks bad for a few years but in the end it is the best for both flora and fauna.
Get it cruised and let it out for bids, be sure to get good understandable contract, and then be prepared to be dissapointed at the end.
Around here pulpwood and chips are not very valuable.
Yep this. NEVER EVER hire the government to do what private industry can and will do.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And will, in the long run, cost you less.
A friend had her woodlot harvested. They left an absolute mess & then wanted most of her profit to clean it up.
We sold 62 hardwood trees to a local logger. He took them to a local sawmill that sells the wood to china. They use the wood to make furniture to sell back over here. He paid us about $484 a tree. Our trees were Maple, White Oak, Red Oak, plus one Hickory that he was going to keep for himself. The only downside to it was the mess he left behind.
We were enrolled in the CAUV program for farmers that sell a crop. Trees are our crop. The CAUV program lowered our taxes on the 23 acres we own. The stipulation is that we have to harvest our crop every 15 years or so.
Joe
Right up front I'll say I'm not a fan of MO Department of Consternation. Any recommendations their employees make will be skewed toward their personal or agency agendas. They will make recommendations based on TODAY w/o regard for the fact that timber harvest is not something that can happen every 2-3 years. Loggers want to get as much as they can get in one trip and won't bid as well on a tree here and a tree there. In addition, the forester won't take into account how much damage is caused by not taking a group of 'good enough' trees rather than a couple of choice trees.
Regarding the 'stepping over the property line' comments: I'd strongly suggest the landowner find and clearly mark property lines to prevent this. If fences aren't present, memory can fade or lines can blur when it comes to property boundaries. If lines are marked, the landowner did his/her due diligence and can prove such in court if necessary.
Make sure what the logger will do with slash/tops/cutoffs. Piling them for burning later is time consuming and might/might not happen unless supervision is available. Four years ago, I sold a LOT (I mean 10-12 semi loads) of maple, cottonwood, and 'other' logs for pallet lumber and furniture grade logs. Since the logged area was basically unused wildland I allowed the tops to be left where fallen. A few floods and couple of controlled burns and most is completely gone. This isn't a good idea where visual appeal is an issue. My point is: the more you demand from the logger, the less he can pay for your logs.
Loggers work on production, a good pay day is based on number of loads that made it to the mill.They will destroy all that is left to continue to grow and bet your bottom dollar they will not leave the area in pristine condition. Forestry dept may force them to dress up and seed landing area but that will be it.
Any trees left standing will be barked at base or limbs broken out by falling bigger trees. My reason for clear cutting
Ask neighbors for recommendations as to loggers . Check with your local farm agency or d ept of natural resources in your state for reseeding programs etc .
"Forestry dept may force them to dress up and seed landing area but that will be it."
Definitely NOT in MO.
"Check with your local farm agency or d ept of natural resources in your state for reseeding programs etc ."
Also NOT in MO(at least not in north MO).
Most loggers are sort of a tough bunch. Partly due to the nature of their work and partly because (around here anyway), logging does not attract the higher end of society so to speak. I've had good luck with loggers but some of that is because I'm very observant and not timid about pointing out problems.
The last loggers who cut here were Amish(sort of--they had a portable sawmill, a skidder, and a rough terrain forklift). I went down to talk to them each morning while they were waiting for their equipment to warm up. I kept count of the bunks of pallet lumber cut and the grade logs stacked. They knew this and understood that I could figure board feet as well as they. One morning during my little visit, one of the men made some comments to another in German(fairly common when they don't want an "English" to understand). I studied up a bit overnight and next morning when another comment was made, I responded that I spoke German. THAT ended the comments and probably made them wonder about all the other things they'd said.
Around here the forest service will require landing areas to be seeded and water breaks in log roads.
Your Amish buddies might be members of the NRA, Not Really Amish.
Neighbor sold his timber and was on a board foot deal, so much percentage. They would tell him so many feet but neighbors counted the loads, they were shorting him by at least half.
Just like farmers on the supply end of the long road to the consumer, they only get the crumbs from all of their hard work.