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How did they find where he bought the gun...
jimdeere
Member, Moderator Posts: 26,159 ******
Comments
Running a trace can take as little as a few hours, especially when expedited for a high profile case that happens in the morning.
Considering he purchased the pistol in 2011, it will be hard to make a case for a waiting period.
The local police recover the gun. The BATF, will contact the manufacturer (Glock) who will have the name of the wholesaler who received it. The wholesaler will have the FFL of the dealer who bought it, and the dealer will have the buyers completed 4473 with a name and drivers license number. If the person who originally bought the pistol pawned it, the pawn shop will have a 4473 on the new buyer.
As @shootuadeal said, this can all be done very quickly.
It's like having a national gun registry that we don't have,,,
Exactly
Yeah, 6 months after I shut down my shop and sent in my records, I got a call from ATF wanting to know who I sold a particular pistol to. I very nicely informed the lady that I had no idea, and they should look through the box I had sent them! I had destroyed all the documents that were not necessary for them to receive. I think I still have the signed receipt indicating they had gotten it.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/frank-james
This is the way the trace works, and I'm describing my own experiences...
I'm sitting at my desk and looking at the GB forums when the phone rings. "Mark Christian speaking."
"This is agent Smith of the BATF tracing unit. Do you currently hold FFL Number (he then reads my FFL number)."
"Yes."
Notice that they aren't asking me for the number, they already know it.
"We need you cooperation with a trace of a handgun you purchased from Nationwide Sports on (date in 1993). The handgun is a Daewoo DP-51 serial number (stated). Do you still have this pistol in your inventory?"
"No. I know that it was sold."
"Over the counter?" which means I have a completed 4473.
"No. It was shipped out of state. Hold on while I get my bound book." I fetch my BB and find the pistol. "It was shipped to (I provide the name of the gun shop, their AZ address and FFL number, and the shipping date)."
"Can you provide any other information?"
I find my copy of the shipping invoice "I sold it on Gun Broker Auctions. The actual buyer's name was 'John Doe'. He paid with a Postal MO. I have a contact phone number (which I provide)"
"Thank you very much, Mr. Christian. We appreciate your cooperation." CLICK.
That's it. No explanation for the trace was given to me, nor any information about where or how the pistol was recovered. The next step for the BATF was to contact the receiving dealer in AZ.
That is how it works.
Who cares where he bought the gun? Regardless of where he purchased the firearm he then went on to use it in a very anti-social way. THAT is what is important here and that is what he should be severely punished for.
FYI, if there's any doubt about what I mean when I say severely punished, I mean stick a needle in his carotid and blow a big ol' bubble of air in there. Let him squirm.
It is much simpler that that. If you have the gun with the serial number, simply run that serial number through NCIS. From birth to death of that gun.
National Criminal Information Service. We had a terminal in every substation. The trick was in formatting the inquiry in a way that the system liked it. People, property, guns, Anything but vehicles.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
Maybe in a state with registration.
Unless I sell more than 2 handguns and have to fill out a 3310 multiple sale/disposition of handguns form the Feds don't receive any sort of gun information when I sell a gun. There is no sort of database like you mention unless you were law enforcement in a state that does have actual gun registration, and even then I'd wager the info is spotty at best due to unregistered guns, whether legal or illegal.
It is a little different but I get what you are saying.
Difference is a cop or other such figure can't just punch in "Montana Joe" and see what guns you own. They have to start with the gun that they have a reason to trace and track it back to the original purchaser.
Again, that is most states, if you are in a state that does gun registration then yes, they can just look your name up and see what's registered to you.
Granted I have been retired for 10 years but my experiences from when I was selling guns are as you describe. Since I was in Michigan, a state with handgun registration, most of the enquiries we got at the store were for long guns. With a state handgun database it was simpler for the feds to check with the state first. Being 40 miles north of Detroit did mean we probably had more enquiries than some locations in the country. Bob
Nice lady, at least she seemed to be, called from ATF asking about a particular rifle.
Who did I transfer it to and needed their contact info. Passed it on to her and she said the rifle had been used in a crime in Florida.
She thanked me and said that is all she needed.
Like the rest of you ,when I was managing the gun shop we got a few trace requests . Atf was always nice but stingy with the reason they were tracing the gun..but on occasion one would let slip that it was stolen or had been recovered at a crime scene . They would give me a date it was shipped from the wholesale dealer and make and serial number . Then it was up to me to dig thru the bound book.and find my log in log out info and report back to them .
A great example that comments which are based on first hand experience are still claimed by some to be incorrect.
This demonstrates that my spending less time participating in the forums and more time administrating them is the better choice. Expect that to happen.
i have found traces i have been ask about go no where
Back in the day if you ran Patti Hearst's name in NCIS you would get an immediate phone call from the FBI.
Ask me how I know.
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
I have been getting more traces now than before this stupid sickness started. Not sure if it is related or not. But with sales climbing. An gun violence in major cities climbing. It seams like i have a phone call about once a week. Some traces are from firearms 4 or 5 years ago. All contacts have been very nice.
Thatcherism Very shallow narcissistic hate piece. The mainstream Brits eventually got her number.
Somebody been hanging around owles???
I'm all for banning them and you posting more.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
It doesn't matter where he got the gun. It's not the gun's fault, it's not 5he dealer's fault, it's not the cop's fault, it not the government's fault.
The guilt falls solely on the shoulders of Frank James.
But the gub'ment still needs to outlaw ghost guns in the wake of this tremendous tragedy which was perpetrated by a POC with a legally purchased Glock. It's for ya'lls own good.
Agree 100%, what would the difference be if he had used a Louisville Slugger to hurt/wound people ??
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
None...........he could have used a kitchen knife.........or............God forbid...........a box-cutter
I call this background gun history checking, Reverse Engineering. IMO, they are going the wrong way in an attempt to elicit funds through lawsuits made by lawyers. Has absolutely nothing to do with guilt or innocence of suspected criminals.
All about the money as well as placing BLAME on a TOOL and not the finger on a trigger.
I'm curious about how a person with a history of mental instability was allowed to purchase the pistol. Was it purchased prior to or after & the shrinks didn't report that he was unstable? (If that state had a system in place.)
He bought it 11 years ago. He was probably a somewhat normal guy at the time.