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14 kids and 1 teacher dead
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Seeing reports of how the cops were stopping parents from going inside to try and stop the shooter. I get they were trying to control the scene but what was their plan? Wait until the shooter ran out of ammo?
...Story here in Texas, by local media, is that OTHER LEO's were around back of the school attempting to gain entry thru windows...most media have an AGENDA, usually far left, anti-American, anti-Cop...
...I was not there, so I don't have all the facts...
Truly a two fold tragedy !
I posted this also in Politics, but I read somewhere about this nut's obsession with the video game 'Call of Duty'.
Spending hours pretending to blast people has got to cause mental issues in a younger brain. Why is there no focus on the gaming industry, and Hollywood's obsession with violence in movies?
This horrible, tragic incident is being put on the shoulders law abiding gun owners- once again. Why aren't the software manufacturers culpable?
in my old fashion opinion the only answer and it by far is not a solution, is to start admitting folks into mental institutions again even if it is against their will. There are just to many crazy people walking the streets, but this opens a can of worms nobody wants to touch....
New reports say the madman was inside for 40 to 60 MINUTES before a tactical border patrol unit arrived and killed him. I PRAY that is not true, but sadly it seems to be true. Apparently parents were begging the officers on scene to go in and fight. I know that if I were there.......I would have went in no questions asked. In reality, I prob would have been shot by the officers for trying to go inside. I can NOT imagine sitting outside and hearing all those gun shots and NOT going in. Again, I hope that is not true(and I have NO first hand knowledge) but if the witnesses are correct then that makes this even worse!🤢
When the school shooting happened in Littleton, Colorado, responding officers adhered to protocol and set up a perimeter, waiting for SWAT. While they waited, they got to hear shots being fired and children dying.
In pre-shift briefing, I decried this tactic and stated that I would not wait outside while people were dying. My Sergeant said, "Yes you will. You WILL obey orders and follow procedure!"
I stated, "Sergeant, it may be the last day I work here, and it may be the last day I live, but I will go in and do what I can."
That got me a verbal reprimand, though history proved me right. WE DON'T WAIT!
For many years now, the protocol for responding to an active shooter is to enter immediately, head for the sound of gunfire, and neutralize the shooter as quickly as possible.
At first, a four-officer squad was recommended. Then, it became clear that four may not be available, so training was changed to allow for three, two, or even a single officer to enter, search and neutralize.
The tough part is you might have to walk past a kid that's bleeding out to continue your search, but stopping the killing has to take priority over all else.
WE DON'T WAIT!
I also read where they had to find a janitor to unlock the classroom door because they couldn't get it open any other way. I suppose they might have been able to use breacher loads but what if there were kids on the other side? Like you I wasn't there and because of the way the media works we may never be able to wade through all the b.s. to actually know what happened. Kudos to the Border patrol guys that shot the *. You know, the ones this administration has constantly belittled and have no use for. Bob
Numerous studies have been done that report that violent video games ,movies ,TV, music etc have no adverse effect on growing minds
Having spent 32 years in working with mentally ill children and teens i call bs on the studies .My real world experiences tell me otherwise . A steady diet of this stuff desensitized one to violence and suffering .
Parents need to take a stand against this crap .
No one I believe wants to rush into a gun fight. If someone is hold up in a building, and you have no idea where their hiding, that would be dangerous to charge in blindly. In a combat situation to clear the building you would have cleared each room one at a time with grenades, before interring the rooms, but this was a school with children in the rooms. If you send in officers blindly and they get killed, you have accomplished nothing if you haven’t stopped the shooter. Where I see the problem is, why was the door unlocked, and why was he allowed in the building?
Please don’t think I am unsympathetic towards the parents, I could not even imagine their feelings at that moment, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do things.
The article reads, in the first line, that they were INSIDE for 40 minutes. Devil is in the details.
Which of these was the scenario?
A. The gunman barricaded himself in a room occupied by more victims.
Or
B. The gunman was barricaded in a room where it was just him.
If A, then I believe they should have stormed in. If it was B then I see no issue with them waiting for a better equipped and better trained team.
Who needs an "assault rifle"? Forty minutes is enough time to kill 19 people with a muzzle loader.
One of the Officers lost his child in the incident .
Unlocked back door with a security guard watching him enter is disgusting to watch and really is shameful if he was having a smoke before hand and then failed to challenge the perp and left the door open to reenter later.
serf
"but this was a school with children in the rooms."
EXACTLY!!!
That is why you have to RUSH in! I would without hesitation! If I kill the shooter....great. If I take his attention from killing innocent CHILDREN...great. The is NO SITUATION where I would sit outside and listen to children being murdered!
I did read where the school security officer engaged the shooter and caused him to drop a bag of ammunition. That may have saved some lives. There was a pause in the shooting 30 minutes before the takedown and the shooter had barricaded himself in place, perhaps because he was either low or out of ammo. During that 30 minutes students were being evacuated both to get them away from the shooter and to avoid collateral casualties. Bob
Edit to add; Just watched the latest press conference and they said there was no officer on duty at the school. No police in the area until the 911 call was made. Kids were killed and the gunman barricaded before the police arrived. Police backed off and evacuation was started to get the students and staff out.
Apparently there was NO school security. Not did the LEOs go in to try and stop him. They waited for the border patrol unit. Sad, if true. There have been SO many false stories, who knows. Eye witnesses said they were begging the cops to go in. Very sad day!
I thought the cops were chasing him when he wrecked in the ditch. Why do they say cops were in scene after 4 minutes? Again.....who knows what's true and what is MEDIA BS?
...ANY LEO that stood outside of the school, hearing shots, and didnt make entry...should be on leave TODAY and looking forward to talking with Internal Affairs...very hard for me to imagine that they may have stood outside hearing kids die...
New reports are saying that parents were tased and arrested because they tried to go inside the school, AFTER they decide the LEOs were not going to help! AGAIN....IF true, all those LEOs should resign in shame immediately. If not true, the media should all resign in shame. Come to think of it, the media should resign either way!
The officers waited for an hour for the SWAT team to arrive, because "they could have been shot.."
"within 40 minutes"? Looks to me like the responders needed less organization time, and more balls, and the death toll among the innocent would have been much lower--even if one or more responders had been injured or killed. I used to watch "Lone Star Law" without laughing (much). Now this scenario will come to mind.
Who is saying, now, that we are doing enough to keep people who shouldn't have them from getting hi-cap assault weapons? I think we, the responsible gun owners, should get involved in the process of sorting out what needs to happen--we ain't gonna like the results if we leave it to those most likely to act. Freedom always comes with responsibility, and if we don't enter the dialogue, common sense will be the first victim.
My two cents.
windy
I was listening to the right wing talk radio where one of the dude was talking to a "cop" friend. And supposedly the "cop" said to him that he didn't have to run in to do the rescue. So that got me wondering why have "To Serve And "Protect" on their rides? Then the two radio dudes was yapping on about hiring people to run in and do the rescue. So basically a call will go out and those head busters will come and "deal" with it. I suppose like a prison riot quashers.
They might as well just let all of us carry and take our chances.
Just listening to news. They are stating that the shooter was arrested four years ago for threatening to shoot up a school in 2022 when he turned 18.
Got a link? All most of these shooters had previous run in's means they want to see something happen.Better watch out for those red laws being enacted by Republicans soon they are finally seeing the results of doing nothing now.
I wonder how many that smoke Marijuana could have their guns taken? Millions you think?
serf
was honest and patient. a patient in a mental hospital said "don't release me, i'm going to kill someone" they released him and he killed someone ...... he then saw what he did and called the law. then committed to Rusk state hospital. insane. Richard Corey ? 1930s a PTA board member did a similar school attack.
Not to minimize this event but their have been worse events in the US that did not include a gun.
https://www.mlive.com/news/2017/05/michigan_marks_90th_anniversar.html
News conference... Didn't go in... Sad day when Police Dept isn't brave enough to save lives.
nypost.com
Top Texas Cop Admits Cops Botched Uvalde School Response
Cops responding to the Uvalde, Texas school massacre “made the wrong decision” when they waited to breach the classroom door where a gunman had barricaded himself inside with children, a top law enforcement official said Friday.
The on-scene commander made the call that the carnage at Robb Elementary School on Tuesday had gone from an active shooter situation to a “barricaded suspect” situation, Col. Steven McCraw, director Texas Department of Public Safety said in a briefing Friday.
McCraw said with the benefit of hindsight, it was clear there were still students inside and in danger.
“Of course it was not the right decision, it was the wrong decision period,” McCraw said.
The admission came as police revealed the first time that shooter marched in through an unlocked door that had been propped open by a teacher.
The teacher propped the door at 11:27 a.m. a minute before 18-year-old gunman Salvador Ramos crashed his car into a ditch near the Robb Elementary School Tuesday.
Authorities are scrambling to explain why it took an hour to take out Ramos, whose rampage at Robb Elementary School Tuesday left 19 children and two teachers dead.
"Two officials briefed on the situation told the New York Times that specialized Border Patrol agents arrived at Robb Elementary School between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m. which is roughly 30 minutes earlier than previously thought.
Additionally, the officials say that the Uvalde Police Department held the Border Patrol agents back from going inside."
So not only did the local LEOs NOT go in but they PREVENTED the border patrol from entering too! Apparently they held the border patrol back for 30-40 minutes! EVERYONE involved in those decisions should be FIRED effective immediately! NO excuse! If you cannot do the job, then let the border patrol do it. BUT to prevent them from entering also, that's criminal neglect! I love the LEO and respect them, those who made this decision should be fired in shame! Sad sad day!
A Lose/Lose for law enforcement. Had LEOs rushed the school and other than Ramos injured or killed, there would also be public outrage. This is not to say that law enforcement in this case picked the greater of two evils; it is to say that the action of law enforcement regardless of choice would most very likely be followed by public outrage.
I disagree. LEOs should have done everything in their power to stop this insane person......least of all let the border patrol in!
Apparently a teacher propped the door open just minutes before the insane man went inside. Now......tell me WHY that person propped the door open. According to ALL witness accounts, this insane person was shooting AT the school for about 10 minutes BEFORE going inside. So that means this "teacher" propped the door open a full EIGHT minutes AFTER the shooting began. Unless said teacher was deaf, there may be more than one person involved in this horric situation! I see no other explanation as to why you would prop open a LOCKED door KNOWING someone was outside shooting at the school!
News conference said they recovered 60 magazines.
I watched a press conference at noon of a Texas law enforcement officer give an absolutely disgusting show of ineptitude that I have ever seen on TV. He was contorting his face, licking his lips, continually sorting a bunch of paper notes, and verbally stumbling throughout the interview. It was absolutely shameful.
Joe
You missed the point. What you or I or LE would or should have done in this instance is irrelevant to the point.
Here is the best timeline I could find of the shooting;
Since all of the knowledge that I have is at best second hand, I will refrain from either condemning or praising the overall law enforcement response. Not mentioned in this timeline is how long it took to find the key to open the classroom or how strong the lock/door was. That may have had some bearing on the timing of the entry. Bob
No, the entire point is to try and save INNOCENT lives. I could give 2 craps what anyone "might" have thought IF the LEO actually did their job!
The point is, they FAILED to do everything they could to save innocent children and they even PREVENTED border patrol from going inside.
They should be fired and NEVER hired as any type of LEO ever again!
No, that is your point, not mine. Not sure whether you have a reading deficit or suffer the delusion that what you give two craps about overrides that point. Think I'll go with "Both".
None our members were on the scene as far as i can tell and everybody is forming their own opinions based on hearsay evidence that has contradicted itself multiple times from multiple sources and arguing isn't gonna change anybody's minds imho. so we are done with this.