Oregon Gun Buyers Beware
Steve Jepson
Member Posts: 16 ✭
I purchased a shot gun here at GunBrokers.com in November, had is shipped to my local FFL Dealer, filled out the necessary Gun Transfer Application, completed a background check in about 2 minuets. Transfer complete. Could not have been much easier. So I bought another gun, and it arrived at the same FFL Dealer on the 22nd. I went to pick it up on the 23rd but this time the transfer could not be complete because there were 2,200 people ahead of me waiting for the required background check. I am told that it could still take a month or more for the Oregon State Police to complete my background check - again. This is because of a new gun law that will probably be going into effect soon in Oregon. This has caused such a surge in background checks for gun transfer that the system in place for processing them cannot keep up. The result is that my gun has been affectively CONFISCATED ! And the FFL Dealer would be committing a crime if he lets me have my own property! What can I do? And I am only one of many thousands of people in Oregon in the same situation right now. The new gun laws will not even affect me or my guns - but the surge in background checks has in effect stopped all gun sales in Oregon for thousands of people like myself. You can buy a gun, but you can’t take possession of it in Oregon **at this time**. That is something the entire nation needs to be made aware of. -- at last check, there are more than 20,000 Orgonians waiting for background checks.
Can Oregonians buy guns while Measure 114 limits are being worked out? - oregonlive.com
*** an update this morning from my FFL Dealer ,December 1 ***
"You are currently 23,452 of 29,407 with the approval date by 12/12/2022"
** another up date ** 12 2 2022
SAF FILES 2nd FEDERAL LAWSUIT CHALLENGING OREGON MEASURE 114 (campaign-archive.com)
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Comments
jump ship while you have time
Nonsense on their laws
I heard about ther bs laws and how it's backlogged the system a couple weeks back same with NY so many hoops to jump thru for a right granted by our constitution and they will not allow and extra help to speed up the process
I hear NJ also getting into the game for the most part every blue ran state
Setting bars and fees and regulations so high almost impossible to get a permit or a gun
I do feel for all the people locked into a blue state run by anti gun politicians
Our Supreme Court needs to make a no nonsense plain as day to every politican one personal level order
It's a right every citizen has now step away from all the bs games and hurdles or go to prison for 10 years and no ifs ands or butts for interfering with the law of the land
Option 2 every gun ownerin the USA ban together and shut down the country untill every rule and law are removed ncluding removing politicians if necessary
Our country is being run by East and West coast elites. Nothing will happen until they finally pi** off the middle states enough for people to act. By then it will be too late I'm afraid. They will keep nit picking, as they've done since 1968 to slowly chip away at our rights until its impossible to buy firearms. All in the name of "Common sense gun laws".
I agree with Ditch-Runner. We need to recoup ground lost. Repealing the GCA of 1968 would be a good start.
We went thru the same in CT
Oregon voters well and truly pewed the scrooch with this M114.
I am so very thankful I was able to escape when I did.
Agree with Steve, I left Oregon 6 months ago for the same reasons you are talking about.
Illinois did the same thing with FOID cards 😆 and now delayed renewals. Wife waited two years until we had to go to a ISP station set up to deal with issues. Go to another state, if this keeps up there will be no other states to go to.
Even gun owners in the state of Oregon supported that nonsense, so I don't know what to say except I hope you get your gun and move out of that beautiful but violated state.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
The new law is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
Oregon is a DEMOCRAT state.
Due to New York's "shall issue" court case, Maryland's Republican governor (Larry Hogan) ordered the state police to approve CCW's without requiring "good cause". He moved police personnel to the permit office, imposed mandatory overtime for everyone in the office. They went from 70 permits a month to 7,000, no problem.
You need a new governor in Oregon, that's all.
Neal
Until there is a lawsuit it will be a problem. Its unconstitutional to have a system in place that pretty much keeps you from practicing your rights, so whenever it does go to court its sure to win. How long this will take....who knows?
Until then, your guns being at your dealer is not such a big deal. Think of it as storage. If it will be there a LONG time I'd verify that they do have an insurance policy that covers any type of loss imaginable....theft, fire, whatever. I've heard of several stores being broken into or having a fire and people losing their items without any recourse.
They just voted for a new governor. She's even further left and loonier than the last two! What that state needs now is an enema!
This is what I am concerned about. I would guess that many of the FFL Dealers around here do not have enough room in their safes for all the guns and ammo that must be piling up now. Also, I am concerned that some of them will take the opportunity to take along some of these rare and/or special guns to their gun shows to help attract attention to their booth. Even if not forsale.
Just saw this on the PSA website…
”All Firearm Orders for the state of Oregon must be placed before Midnight, December 1st PST according to new state laws.
No Oregon Firearm Orders will be accepted after Midnight, December 1st 2022 PST.”
114 is going to Court tomorrow.
SAF FILES 2nd FEDERAL LAWSUIT CHALLENGING OREGON MEASURE 114 (campaign-archive.com)
Join OFF (Oregon Firearms Federation), it's money well spent.
I did that once. Got a nice hat and a sticker. 114 Goes To Court – Oregon Firearms Federation The thing is, we are getting to the point where there is no legal recourse angainst those in the Govenment that refuse to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America. The Democrat is hell bent on dissarming We the People. Why? Because they know their Socialist-Globalist Agenda is going to result in Civil War. It's a different kind of war, but is it already well undeway.
This might be of some help to people like me who already purchased a gun before measure 114 goes into effect on December 8.
Per the OSP web site - Oregon State Police : Firearms Instant Check System (FICS) : Criminal Justice Information Services (CJIS) : State of Oregon
"3. PEND/DELAY: If OSP is unable to determine if the purchaser is qualified or disqualified within 30 minutes of the request, OSP is required to notify the transferor and provide an estimate of the time when OSP will complete the background check.
While the decision to transfer a firearm after the statutorily allowable period (3 business days) is solely up to the transferor (should OSP fail to provide a unique approval number or notify the transferor that the purchaser is disqualified), OSP will continue to complete the requested background check until resolved or cancelled by the transferor. "
And this per the AFT: Must a licensee always wait 3 business days before transferring a firearm after receiving a “delayed” response? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov) [18 U.S.C. 922(t); 27 CFR 478.102(a)(2)]
As near as I can tell the FFL Dealers do have the option to allow possession of the firearm by the owner after (3) business days if there is no responce of “proceed” or “denied”, he or she must wait until (3) business days have elapsed prior to transferring the firearm.
Note that is is up to the FFL Dealer. I hope my dealer will make the right choice without having to get an attory involved.
Especially in light of the fact that he already did a background check for me in November and this is my second one which was applied for on the 23rd of November. ?
If anyone is in this same situation and has been able to pick up their gun - I would like to know. I will post here on Monday with my results. And hopefully a picture of my new rifle :)
I have heard a lot true false rumors or about to be
No limit on how long they can make you wit the three day is out out
Leo does not have the ability equipment or man power to handle the work load
Fingerprint an paperwork are just tat all on paper read as in forever to process
I agree the democrats are spitting in the face of the scous .and the constitution they swore to uphold
And I agree they have a goal and know a armed population is trouble just ask the British around 1776
I am still tryig to convince my FFL Dealer that he needs to let me have my gun - now! We have an instant background check in Oregon. The Oregon State Police must retrun a finding of Approved, Denied, or Pend/Delay within in 30 minuets of the request for a background check. If they can't do that because of some delay, there is a statutory waiting period of (3) buisness days, after which the Tranferor ( FFL Dealer) can allow the owner of the gun to take possession of it. However, my FFL Dealer is not cooperating with me about this 3 day waiting period. It has been more than (7) waiting days now and he will not let me have my gun. And I have already had a background check with this same FFL Dealer in a week or so before trying to get another one for a differnet gun. So why does the FFL Dealer not want to let me have my gun now - before the new laws take affect on December 8 ? I am concerend that this is because there is a conflict of interest. He stands to profit if/when the new law actually goes into affect. He is alrady getteing a fee for every gun he facilitates the required Transfer for. If there is no law for Transfer, ther is not fee for him to collect to do it. And wiht the new laws, he will be able to raise his rates on that as well . It already cost me about $100.00 to buy a gun here on gunbroker.com to cover the cost of FEE's, shipping, and such. And now they want require a Permit-to-buy requirement that includes the cost of training for how to use the gun, and all sort of other fees/penalties...and to make it worse, they do not actually have the processes for any of this up and runnign yet. It is impossible to get a permit that does not even exist yet. See what they are doing ? And my FFL Dealer is essentially facilitating the CONFISCATION of my gun - he won't give it to me with out another background check for this gun - even though he just got one for one of my other guns. And he refuses to aknowledge the statutory waiting period. He has taken my gun captive as servant of the State and won't give it to me. And this is an expenive rifle too. What can I do? I still don't know of any leagal means to take possesion of it.
If you went in face to face and he won't give you the gun, tell him you're going to call the police. If that doesn't move the needle with him, call the police and tell them the FFL has illegally confiscated your gun.
BTW, The 114 law is being held in abeyance due to the fine handiwork of GOA.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I think I understand the reason my FFL Dealer here in Oregon will not let me take possession of the gun after the statutory (3) dat waithing period that is warrented where there is a dealy with the OSP FCIS (Firearms Instant Check System) and the responce takes more than 30 minutes. The law is perfectly clear - however, most of them are under the **false inpression** that they would be at risk of being sued if that gun released without the OSP background check, and that gun were to be at some time in the future used in the commission of a crime of some sort. This is apparently a myth that has existed for many years among the FFL Dealers in Oregon. I found comments about this online going back to 2016, and they sounded like this was already a problem logn before that. The option I am looking for now is an Oregon AFF Dealer that will be comfortable with the (3) day waiting period and the fact that they can verify with the OSP FFL Dealer website that I have already passed another OSP background check just a few weeks ago in November. And they can also verify the fact that the OSP itself issued the "delay" , which is inisputible.
The OSP has not provided a unique approval number or notified the transferor that the purhcaseer is disqualified. This cleaarly constitues a delay of more than 30 minuets. Also, they sent the FFL Dealer this notice of the delay which he forwarded to me on November 30 - my waiting period was over on November 28.
That notice serves as a documented delay. So the entire reason why the FFL Dealer does not want to follow the letter of the the law is becuse he is under the **false inpression** that he could be sued if he does follow the letter of the law. And there is not reasoning with him. He may be correct in his fears. It does not matter if a lawsuit against hime could prevail or not - just the idea that someone might file a frivolous law suit agianst him is enogh of a concern that he will not release the gun to me even after that waiting period. He should have made that clear before accepting the payment from me and agreeing to facilitate the transfer for me. So now what ? How do I get my gun back ? The OSP has announced that they will stop trying to process the background checks on December 8 because that is when a new law requiring a Permit-to-buy goes into effect. But today is December 6! Not December 8. What can I do ? And what is the FFL Dealer going to do with my gun?
You are pushing the limits of this forum, Read the Guidelines for posting I feel for you, but there is nothing anyone here can do. You chose the FFL you are dealing with, I'd say you made a bad choice. Life lessons are sometimes hard. I will not close this post right now as maybe someone has an idea that will help you, but complaining about pretty much anything is against the rules, we let some things slide, however your issue has nothing to do with this forum or Gunbroker auctions, as I said the you the buyer, chooses the FFL.
I am looking for anwers from a group of people who have experince with this sort of thing. And sharing information about the situation in Oregon - which is very likely to affect ever gun owner in the USA very soon. The specific Oregon FFL Dealer makes no difference at all. They are all in the same boat. And for what ever it is worth, Gunbrokers.com Sellers will no longer ship guns to Oregon any longer ( I am told by the Oregon FFL Dealers I am personally spoken with today) . The situation is this - as of December 8, not only will all guns in Oregon that have magazines that hold more than 10 rounds ( hand guns, shotguns, rilfes...) A .22 that holds 12 rounds, any gun..... and also, ALL gun sales in Oregon are STOPED because there is not Permit in existance for the requied Permit-to-Buy! AND, the Oregon State Police IFCS system for issuing the manditroy background checks in also being stopped, and they are reverting to a very long paper-by-hand process for the backgound checks!
The FFL Dealers are still selling guns in Oregon like fild fire even though they can not/will not process the required Transfer so the Owner can take possession!
On December 8, when the vast majority of guns in Oregon become illegal - there in absolutly nothing to prevent the ATF from collecting every last gun in the FFL Dealers inventory - and the majoirty of all guns in Oregon !
Are you getting the picture ! This is perhpas the biggest thing to every happen in the history of the USA with regard to what so many people said could never happen. Let me say it again - On December 8, here in Oregon, there will be absolutly no reason why the ATF could not legally CONFISCATE the vast majority of guns. The Oregon Department of Justice as filed law suits to try and postpone or stop this. They have not been successful. There appleal was denied yesterday. And this morning, a Judge has upheld a ruling that says it is Unconstitutional.
At this moment, any new article you may find about this is subject to change. It only took 3 hours for one Judge to overturn what another Judge upheld. This should of National Interest to anyone who owns, buys, or sells a gun.
Now -- how is it again that I am pressing the limits of the Forum ? You are not obligated to read anything on any Forum.
I see your point, but I think that your last sentence was the nail that will close this threads coffin.
For starters it's not a Police matter even though the source of the problem is the Oregon State Police Firearms Instant Check System ( FICS) which is required by law to reply with one of (3) responces with in 30 minuets of the request.
They simpley can't do it any more, and they have announced that they will stop trying on December 7 at midnight. They are choosing to cancel the FICS and go back to doing it by hand. The are defying the leagal mandate they are under to provide the instant background checks.
The state of Oregon considers the Tranfer of firearms process to be the same as a Sale. No leagal Transfer, not leagal Sale. No legal Sale - no ownership - no ownership, no way for the Sherrif to do anything about it. The Police always make the recover of stolen propery a matter of the the Sherrifs department. It's theoretically a Civil matter rather than a Police matter. And thus we have no legal recourse. If the FFL Dealer for what ever reason they like will not make the Transfer there is nothing we can do about it.
And as I said elsewere, on December 8, all most all of the guns these FFL Dealers have in their possession/inventroy will be illegal in the State of Oregon. And when that is the case, there is nothing whatsoever to stop the ATF from confiscating those illegal guns. As you may know, this totally unconstitutional law going into effect on December 8 was passed by only 3 or 4 (not sure) counties in Oregon. Only the flam'n Liberal Socialist-Globalist-Leftist-Urbanite- Democrats in some Cities ( apparently) voted for this. And just like everything esle in the state of Oregon, those few cities (Portlandia, Eugene....) control the entire state becuse they have the a majority of voters - the majority of all Orgonians derive their income in some way from the State. And the State is of course controled by the Democrat.
I am eager to leave. I own proerty in Texas. I am wanting to buy propery in Wyoming or South Dakota. It won't matter too much since this sort of gun-grabbing nonsense is coming to every state where the Democrat has the majority of voters -- or has the ability to cheat on the elections. Oregon has a mail in ballot system of course.
We just got a new Govenor -- from California of course. The votes for the Democrat look like this in Oregon
But even thi picture is a gross exageration - if you were to draw a line around just the parts of the cities where all of these (assumed votes) come from, you would see that it is only a few part of a few cities that hold the majority of the votes for the entire state. Part of Bend, Eugene, Portlandia, and Salem are allowd to control the entire state! And Oregon is not the only situation like this. Even as a country everyting is controled by the concentration of Urbanites, and that is where the Democrat is concentrated and always will be. This is were the indegent populations are and they are always going to vote to have someone else provide a living for them. The Democrat promises to do that for them - at someone elses very great expnese.
Cancel all of my posts - thats fine with me. Delete my entire account if you like. GunBroker.com Sellers will no longer ship to Oregon anyway.
You seem like a good guy who is pizzed off about your current political situation, and I/we get it. However, this forum isn't a place to push your frustrations, especially about the auction side, the forums have nothing to do with that side. Try to chill out for the night and come back later. I like your passion, we need people like you on our side, but we all need to know where to use it...