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I know how to stop this from happening
bpost
Member Posts: 32,669 ✭✭✭✭
Remove qualified immunity from these officers. People have the right, the absolute right, to not talk to the police or to help them in their "investigation". Sorry LEO members on this board but this happens way to often where the police are escalating situations to violence attacking and arresting innocent people on trumped up charges. This family was just trying to eat their meal and the lady recording was not interfering at all, her videoing is protected by the First Amendment. Her arrest was utter BS, so was the poor guy attacked by these Police Officers. The law suits for civil and constitutional rights should gain these poor folks enough money to retire on.
Comments
Its no wonder people hate cops.
Why wouldn't someone help in the investigation? Not helping only helps increase lawless behavior. If you were the victim of a hit and run, wouldn't you want folks to help the cops catch the folks that hit and perhaps injured you?
I've read about this incident on several news sites. It is amazing the slant each site gives. One said that he matched the description but would not cooperate while the officers were investigating by refusing to help and then escalating into fighting with the police and trying to escape. Another said butter wouldn't melt in his mouth and he was an angel being picked on because he was black.
I think the answer lies somewhere between the two scenarios. Over reaction on both sides led to this and if calmer heads had prevailed on one or both sides it would have turned out way different. Both sides were in the wrong but when you fight with a cop, chances are you are going to lose. Bob
I have been a supporter of law enforcement all my life BUT my attitude is changing every day. When I see stuff like this, I can see why more and more people are hating cops. I would love to take a baseball bat to both of those jerk wads.
When I see stuff like this, I know what the media agenda is because by-and-large, LEOs are good folks doing a good job in an environment that most of us cannot fathom.
Yeah, it's absolutely awful what happened. Inexcusable. But the media bias is clear and I'm not gonna get caught in their trap.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
The stories I could tell would make heads spin on here but I'll refrain from telling them....I've never been in jail in my life but I also have never had a good/pleasant experience dealing with law enforcement whether it be roadside traffic or having a few of my business's burglarized at times. U-tube is loaded with their abuses, watch them they're free. Sad to say but some of todays cops are reaping what they sow. It's not the media's fault so don't be so quick to blame them, it's their training and meeting quota requirements being pushed.
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
Not defending these thugs, but state and local governments as well as MSM have vilified police departments to the point that moral and self esteem is low. The urge to strike back might likely be present.
I look at LEOs that behave like thugs as the outliers ad their punishment should be swift and severe. Anyone with a lick of sense agrees.
It's the one sided reporting and perpetual vilification of law enforcement that makes me sick. The good officers, which are the vast majority, never get any attention because reporting on what's positive only gets a few clicks whereas outrage gets thousands or millions.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
People, this is only going to get much worse as cities are forced to drop their requirements for employment. All are so understaffed they are taking anyone that can fill out an application. This is what has happened to our entire civil service. Anyone with dignity & morals is not going to subject themselves to abuse.
Qualified immunity only applies to actions taken in the course of an officers duty. Excessive force against subjects likely will not be considered in the scope of duties by the court.
The BLANKET of qualified immunity is VERY hard to break through. It should be very easy to strip the qualified immunity, when it's obviously outside their duties, BUT the courts have proven over and over that is not the case!
There used to be lots of great LEOs, but with defund this, name calling every chance they get, and constant harassment.......most of the good ones have decided to leave. There are still several great LEOs, but IMHO there are way more unqualified LEOs than ever before. That is because they ran the good ones off, then had to lower the standards and beg someone to step into those shoes.....that and work the good ones that are left to the bone.
Well then I guess we might as well wipe with the Constitution. Guilty until proven innocent it is. Forced to talk so all you say can be twisted in court to convict you. The right to be alone with your family eating dinner and not be harassed by the police is now gone. You do not have to talk to the police, you may talk to the police a your own peril. If you decide not to talk expect to get punched and slammed to the floor is now standard operating procedure and the way it should be ina free society.
Except for the Police Unions that resist every justified firing in every manner. Remove Qualified Immunity and see thuggery by the badge drop quickly.
Just remember that those people will to do the politicians biding will be the ones coming after you when certain laws change. REMEMBER COVID ??? it just takes one emergency order !
I think you twisted what I said just a bit. Like I said the news coverage has been both for and against the cops in this unfortunate situation. It all depends on what segment of the population they are pandering to so that they can get clicks or viewers to increase their advertising dollars.
Ohio just had a petition submitted to have a vote to cancel qualified immunity. If it passes, I see mass retirement and very poor recruitment on the horizon for all of the law enforcement departments in that state. Who in their right mind would take a chance when even frivolous lawsuits could end your career. Remember the "Hands up, don't shoot" Michael Brown b.s.?
About 30 years ago I was driving through town on my way to work when I was hemmed in by two police cars with lights flashing and sirens going full blast. I stopped and turned off the car and put both hands on top of the steering wheel. 4 police officers approached with their hands on their holsters and told me to get put of the car. I carefully did and was frisked but not cuffed. Turns out 5 minutes before just down the road a store was robbed and a car matching mine was seen leaving. Fortunately my description didn't match so that was the end of it and I was back on my way to work in 5 minutes. The next day I read that the guy they were looking for had shot and killed a cashier in the robbery. If I had not cooperated when stopped things could have been much worse because they were looking for an armed guy who had already killed someone so the officers were understandably on edge. Cooperating cost me nothing, kept me safe and got the cops back on the road to catch the real bad guy. IMHO, the guy in the restaurant could have cooperated and perhaps had the same outcome. Bob
Police officers, are not what they use to be. I blame some of this on the climate we live in and the lack of respect we have for each other. I have many police officer friends and we have talked about this extensively. I even had one LEO friend, with 23 years in, Quit because their chief wouldn't reprimand the younger thug officers on the force. Their jobs basically stink today. They deal with a lot of bull and have to eat it. Then you have some that put on a gun and badge, and want the public to bow to them. We have good and bad in every occupation in this world. I think when you only see the bad everyday, it can take its toll on you emotionally and physically. I have even seen "attitudes" from LEO's on here, and seen others That are the salt of the earth. There are even some on here, that you would never know they were retired LE. All in all, I respect police officers and always taught my son to do the same, because even they have bad days!!!
While watching this video, and many more like it, Not everyone has what it takes to be a LEO, and show restraint and compassion, which is part of the job. I know for a fact, that I could never do their job. I have compassion, but definitely not the restraint to do what they have to do sometimes.
Now you want to see what a real officer does??? Find the video where the officer, sits down next to a teenager that is having emotional problems, and talks to him and calms him down. He could have used force, a taser or even deadly force, but instead, showed compassion, restraint and love for a fellow human being in trouble. He then becomes friends with the kid and checks up on him regularly.
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People, we have our Constitution and our Bill of Rights, if you don't know them or at least somewhat familiar with them you can possibly someday be in a world of hurt dealing with Leo's, most don't care about your rights anymore. They were written by some very smart men for a very good reason, get to know both of them. That's all I got to say on this subject, so bye......😄
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
I think this is the real problem.
How can the officers not have made the determination that this guy was not the suspect by asking the waitress/manager how long the guy had been at the restaurant.
If H&R was so close in time and this guy had been eating for longer he could not be the suspect. The lack of investigative skills is what I am seeing a lot of today.
I also have been a law, and law enforcement defender. But in recent years, it seems the wrong people are being hired as cops. I take it a an article of faith that no one I would actually want to vote for would have so little self respect as to run for public office. I am beginning to think the same is true of cops. I do have one good young friend (state police) who has the right stuff. I wish there were more.
Anyone who thinks state and local police are bad, must be unfamiliar with abuses committed by FEDERAL law enforcement.
"Why wouldn't someone help in the investigation? Not helping only helps increase lawless behavior. "
You don't think a bunch of fuzzies who would do these things wouldn't think twice about following up reports of their misdeeds and unleashing retribution?????
In some cases yes that could happen. In this incident it was more cooperating with the police to help eliminate he and his wife as suspects quickly so the cops could direct their efforts to catching the actual lawbreakers. That isn't pointing the finger at anyone, just making sure it wasn't pointed at them. Wasting the cops time and getting beaten up as well didn't help anyone. Did the cops overreact? Yes undoubtedly, but did the guy they tried to question escalate that overreaction - I think he did. Bob
You are 100% correct, the guy COULD have cooperated but it is NOT the requirement under our Constitution, we are not required to incriminate ourselves and no amount of explanation will prevent you from being arrested. Some family eating vittles have obviously been there for a few minutes. The cops SHOULD have asked the staff how long the guy had been there before even approaching him. If the time line fit the crime, reasonable RAS has been established. Going to the extremes of violence FIRST and punching the hell out of the guy when he is on the ground is what constitutes a rogue cop getting away with unwarranted assault. The lady filming has every right to do so, she was not interfering in any way, her arrest was BS as established by SCOTUS for decades. The cops did not want an unbiased video of what they were doing wrong and they were the escalating party not the dude with the kid in his arms.
I mostly agree, but multiple news articles about this incident mention that an Applebees employee had pointed pointed out this couple to the police officers as being suspicious before they first approached the couple. Here is one article and that fact is near the bottom:
So it sounds like they did ask first and got what perhaps was erroneous information. I also thought I had read yesterday that the guy that got beat up was wanted on a domestic violence warrant but can't seem to find it today. That was probably an error and has been retracted, but if not it could explain his not cooperating and attempting to leave. This would not absolve the officers acting like thugs but shows how poorly researched and biased news reporting is. Bob
Lower standards and token hires.