TIKKA 308 . . today's results 8-16-23
jb4lcm
Member Posts: 119 ✭✭
TIKKA T3X 22.4" Stainless BBL, 1:11 twist.
Last night I loosened all 3 action screws, then began the tightening process with my torque screwdriver set to 25 in/lb; starting the with rear screw 1-2 easy turns, middle 1-2 easy turns, forward screw 1-2 easy . . . until one screw started to bite - then adjusted the other 2 to begin to bite. I proceeded with 1/4 turns rotating rear-middle-forward until they got snug. Then 1/8 turns . . until one "clicked", and I then tightened the other 2 until "click".
Headed out this morning at 6am. 90 degrees and 2-3 mph tail wind. This time I shot Winchester Deer Season XP, 150gr poly tipped Lead core (I had pretty good luck with this round early on - BEFORE messing with the stock).
100 yards
Note - the gun was NOT zero'd for this round. It was zero'd for the Barnes 130gr. These 5 rounds I was aiming at the cross hair of the UPPER target for all 5 shots.
5 rounds fired. All numbered in their sequence. UGLY result. WORSE than before.
Should I increase the torque to 28 in/lb and try again? Loosen one?
What next?
Comments
Hmmm.....
Any chance you sight it in at 50 yards and work your way toward 100? I mention it because I've had good success with that method.
Also...what scope do you have on the Tikka? (you may have already said but I can't remember)
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
I always tighten the forward screw first, then the back screw and just snug the middle screw. This way you don't flex the action by over tightening the center screw.
OK, you went back to the point where things went wrong after messing with it.
You corrected/ double checked that.
You have tried different ammo, and nothing is staying consistent.
I would next guess, the scope is giving the trouble. Do you have a different scope you could switch out?
You have yet to get any round consistent, even with re-setting the gun into the stock.
Scope.
Agree, always tighten the front screw first making sure the recoil lug is engaged. Simply tapping the butt on the floor to make sure the lug is tight against the stock before tightening is a simple thing to do. The center screw should only be tight enough to secure the trigger guard in place.
My response on the other thread about 25 inch/lbs was only meant as a starting point. I have had good luck with that setting in both synthetic and wood stocks. Some rifles require more, even up to 40#. Care should be taken when going any higher than that because I have seen stocks that have cracked from over tightening.
The group you posted today with its somewhat random POI change from shot to shot could also be from a loose scope, which is another easy thing to check and remedy if necessary. Just out of curiosity, are you shooting off bags, rifle rest or a shooting cradle? Bob
I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you're shooting off of some kind of lead sled/ vise/ resting rig thing. I'm not trying to be critical but something isn't right. At any rate, you're getting some good practice.
Scope: Vortex Diamondback 4x16x44 MRAD - First Focal Plane. Checked the rings - all still snug. Although I did not remove the scope to check the rail-to-gun screws.
Tightening sequence: Good NEW info. I'll start over again.
Ammo: I had really good luck with this Win 150 early on. That's why I went back to it. No other brands shot yet.
Looks like I need to remove the scope, check the rail mount screws, then loosen the 3 action screws and go thru the correct sequence - tightening the forearm first, then rear, and only snugging the front screw in front of trigger guard. Maybe I'll go to 30 in/lb this time as that is in the range suggested by Tikka (25-30).
That sound about right?
Sounds good. Keep us posted. Good luck. Bob
Install another scope if your base screws check out ok.
Also.
Take a sheet of paper about 1/2 inch wide and 4 inches long and see if the barrel is free floating. Start at the front of the stock and if the paper won't slide under the barrel go down the barrel towards the receiver and try to insert the paper from one side to the other, May have to angle the paper.
What I'm indicating that sometimes with a pressure point at the front, the barrel is free floated BEHIND THE PRSSURE point area all the way back to the recoil lug area. If you find free space BEHIND THE PRESSURE POINT AREA check if both sides of the barrel is free or pressure on one side. (barrel touching the stock fore end on one side only).
Let us know the results.
Man, this really is perplexing. I can't ever remember having this much problems sighting in a rifle, but it does happen. If it was me, I would try several things. First, I would start at 25 to 50 yards, not 100. If I was still all over the place, I would, at this point, consider changing scopes out. I have had bad scopes before. The last thing, and I don't know what your shooting off of, but I would make sure I was shooting off a bag, like a bull bag, not a hard surface. I have a lead sled, and that contraption has given me more bad results than anything. I finally gave it away. I honestly don't think there is anything wrong with the gun, I really think you got a bad scope. JMHO. Oakie
I am shooting off sand bags fore and aft.
The gun & scope were fine up until I removed the stock. Then it went all wonkie.
I have an old 4x9x50 Bosch & Lomb I might be able to fit. But before I go changing multiple things at one time - and it gets fixed - I won't know what was fixed.
I think I need to start from scratch again with the proper sequence for tightening the screws.
Okie - the BBL is floating . . a LOT as I recall. Like 1/8" gap under the bbl I think I'll have to take a shot of it when I get home.
This is at 100 yards before I removed the stock:
Pick an ammo, doesn't matter which one and stay with just that ammo. You've got to get it consistent. Don't care where on the target it hits, the first goal is consistent hits/ grouping.
Having read thru the owner's manual looking for the torque for the action screws, I find there are only TWO "action screws". The third screw in the forearm is not even listed in the book. I have been torqueing this 3rd screw as if it were part of the "action". I read somewhere during my search that this 3rd screw is an "accessory" screw. So I may have been altering the harmonics way off.
Additionally, there are no torque settings suggested in the book.
The guard screw near the receiver ring/recoil lug tightens first. The tang screw second.
I will hear about this, no doubt, but many of us have never owned a torque wrench for guard screws and have shot successfully and accurately for many years. In fact, if you read The Accurate Rife by Page, he never once mentions a torque wrench. Just consistently hand tightening the guard screws in the correct order.
I also still think that standardizing on a heavier bullet will help. The Tikka has its origins in Finn and Swedish moose country, and they are going to throw a heavier slug in that 1-11" twist.
Chris8x57 I had to look up which screw the tang screw was to fully understand which is which. Thank you.
Do you tighten the Guard screw completely before the Tang screw?
Feeling REALLY stupid about now.
The forward screw - in the forearm - does absolutely NOTHING to the gun. It is a brass bushing seated in the forearm that does not connect to the BBL in any way. It is just a screw for an additional accessory.
SOOooooo . . . there are only TWO screws connecting the stock to the gun. One in front of the trigger and one behind. I put 35 in/lb on the forward screw then the same on the aft. The scope rail is tight, and so are the scope rings.
Next test fire will include 5 rounds as is, and if it still off I will change out the scope to an ancient 4x9x50 bausch & lomb. Hopefully I can do that tomorrow.
Thanks again to everyone. I am becoming less stupid about rifles.
By the way, I shot 2 straights in skeet last weekend with my Browning 725 sport 30" ..... in .410.
(I gotta redeem myself SOMEHOW . . .)
I see lots of pictures of your targets. How about a few of your rifle. Particularly the scope mounts. Close up.
as requested . . close ups of scope mount
Leopold rail and vortex rings. That may be an issue. When you take the tops off your rings, see if the bottom sections will move. Try twisting them. Softly. If there's any play at all, it will be very small. Very small. Sure, the screws may be tight but maybe they've bottomed in the threads. Just a thought.
That's a really good point. There are enough manufacturing variations in Picatinny style mounts that the blind screw in the Vortex ring lends enough suspicion that it could have bottomed out before it tightened completely. If any play is felt, then going back to say a Weaver or Leupold ring with a cross bolt would be in order.
That should be checked before swapping out scopes which puts you are back to square one. And yes, tighten the front guard screw, then tang screw, and then re-tighten the front.
Another thing to check, would be the muzzle. Make sure that it didn't get a small nick or something on it.
Another thing to try is have a buddy shoot it to see if it's the shooter.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Yeppers. I give him a lot of credit for hangin' in there and having this bunch of ding-a-lings try to help!
Glad you said what you did, Ken. It's not right to belittle a guy who's trying to get some help for a gun problem.
@jb4lcm : you clearly know how to shoot as some of your "before" pics have shown. You made a trigger mod to a good rifle, groups went awry, and then you reached out for advice. Nothing wrong with that. I'd do the same.
There are so many variables involved, though. Could be the ammo, the scope, the rifle itself, the shooter, the bean burritos you've been eating for breakfast...just about anything.
I can't really help because I'm not watching you shoot. Maybe you're doing something wrong, I just don't know. But I gotta say this: don't stop asking questions. Take the advice that makes sense, apply it, and learn from the results. Ignore all the rest.
Tikka makes great rifles. It's just a matter of time before the problem is solved.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
I think Mr P has the right idea.
Granted, he hasn't been here forever like some of you, but he's not a newb, just doesn't post that much so I'm pretty sure he isn't gonna be scared off by some of the remarks here, 2 and a half years is not a newb, Just like posting 20 times a day doesn't make you an old pro.
I asked if the barrel is floating.
I have never been good enough to just look at a gunstock and SEE if the barrel was floating by just eyeballing.
You say: The BBL is floating . . a LOT as I recall. Like 1/8" gap under the bbl I think I'll have to take a shot of it when I get home.
Yes, good catch. Base and rings maybe a mismatch. Picatinny bases have a wider cross slot slot than standard cross slots. I also see recommended that if you are going to use the narrow cross slot rings on a Picatinny base to AT LEAST mount the rings one at a time holding each ring forward as the screws are tightened, then mount the scope and install the caps. If scope ever removed with rings in place hold the scope FORWARD while tightening the rings.
If I were having a SLIGHT accuracy issue I would at least try to get the bases and rings matched.
You are close, just be patient. I've seen such before also.