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Liberty safe controversy
Warbirds
Member Posts: 16,923 ✭✭✭✭
Curious on the opinions here-
A man charged with participating in the January 6th riots was being served a search warrant by the FBI.
The FBI contacted Liberty safes and requested access to this person’s gun safe. There was no warrant from the FBI to Liberty.
Liberty at their own admission provided a “backdoor” code to the suspects safe to the FBI.
Liberty has now come under fire from many for violating their customers security without requiring due process. Liberty has since backtracked have now provided customers a way to “opt out” from the master database of backdoor entry codes & have stated they will no longer provide law enforcement access to customer safes without a warrant.
Comments
I won't buy another from them.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Random thoughts: Should have waited for at least a copy of the search warrant for the residence. Everyone makes mistakes and apparently that includes the person at Liberty that o.k.ed giving out the code. Maybe they thought they were avoiding the FBI destroying the safe to gain entry. Hopefully they learned from this and will follow through with their new promises. Still not sure how this unarmed riot turned into an insurrection - must have been the guy with the scary horns. Bob
Edit to add: Glad my safes have a dial and not a keypad - no backdoor codes involved.
Well, we have a brand new one sitting in a neighbor's shop still in the box, that we bought last black friday. The next order of business is get that thing in the house while the dry weather is still holding.
As far as buying another Liberty safe, I possibly would in the future. The jury's still out on that one. What Liberty did was really wrong, but unlike Budweiser they will change their ways, so I can't really answer that at this time.
If I won one, I would give it back....
I view this a lot like the LaRue Tactical fiasco from a while back. It's one of those "holy cow how did they let this happen" moment on a scale that removes any shred of trust I once had; and that because such a base level of "stop and think before acting" was ignored.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
I will never support a business that gives access to my home or belongings without any pushback whatsoever....especially a safe company that has sold the idea that my items were 100% uder my control because of their product. The loons that control Iphones wouldn't even go as far as those idiots did. They'll NEVER recover from this incident.
I assume that Liberty has those back door codes to aid customers who manage to lock themselves out. I suppose that's fine, but the devil is in the details. Having, and FOLLOWING, a strict policy is critical.
My guess is someone low-level at Liberty (who is likely now unemployed) heard "search warrant" from a very smooth-talking FBI agent, and was trying to do the right thing, without realizing what they were actually doing. If so, it's unfortunate, because I'm darn sure the smooth-talking FBI agent KNEW the scam they were trying to pull was wrong.
If the FBI was trying to build an air-tight case against someone that pretty well killed their little adventure in court. They themselves may as well be charged with murder, they just killed Liberty Safe Co.
"Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee
I have four liberty safes. I love their safes , but when we move, I am buying a couple of Pendletons. More expensive, but I always wanted one. There is a backdoor way into "EVERY" safe. I will actually be able to go down to two safes with Pendleton. Would I buy another Liberty if a Pendleton wasn't around, Short answer is yes. Am I mad about what happened, of course. But there is no way any of us are going to side step the government. They were getting into that safe no matter what. The employee from Liberty, ought to be held accountable. JMHO
Whatever evidence found in the safe could be argued as inadmissible due to the fact that someone other than the owner could gain access.
Mine are not that. No worries. Maybe.
Opt out, poppycock. Not the issue. Weak minded employee or slick FBI agent makes no difference. Kasey has it right. Liberty could never be trusted again. Period end. ----------------------------------
Too little to late...
I've looked at safes for a while but still haven't decided on what to get. Obviously I won't get anything from Liberty. But their actions also have me concerned about the possible actions of other manufacturers.
Well done, Liberty. That thread about burying firearms in the backyard seems more like a good idea now.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
wrong on so many levels
my guess they would have just impounded the safe with a leftist judge order and had their way with it most likely destroying the safe and anything in it
same ( or at least it use to be ) if a LEO ask to search your car with probable cause and you said no
they would just hold you and the car until a search warrant was issued.
thank goodness we live in a free country
In case anyone is interested. About five years ago i got locked out of my Winchester safe for about six months. What good is a loaded gun in a safe that a Politician says you must have if you are locked out? At that time they were made in Texas and probably still are. There is no back door with Key Pad lock mech. Maybe you could call torch and sawsall a back door. I probably would never get another safe with Key Pad for that reason and others.
Ran into a fellow that was a pro on safes, locks and ways to get in them on a Internet website. A lot of the earlier safes had cheap Key Pads and failed especially if you used repetitive numbers in your code. The competition is fierce in the big box stores and the safe mfg's. They will cut corners on the Key Pad and do almost anything to beat out the competition.
With this fellows help i was able to buy a more reliable and better quality Key Pad. Be very careful about purchasing a new Key Pad because you could be getting more of the same. Many of the safes have a cable that runs thru a tiny hole from outer Key Pad to inner module. I left my old cable in and "Viola" my old code worked on new Key Pad when it communicated with code that was stored with inner module.
Winchester safes completely stonewalled me as far as help getting in my safe and warranty on original Key Pad. So far after over five years the new Key Pad is still working great. Try not to let your battery run down. --------------Ray
I have a canon safe ( my son had bought but wanted a bigger one so I bought this one from him when it was less than a year old ) I wanted one with a dial but this one had the key pad , the pad screwup several years ago,
but canon sent me a new key pad for it . maybe i was still under warranty I was not sure
I just emailed them with the info and safe seral number and they helped out for free
I do like a company that stands behind their product.
one other note you may consider if not already I made sure my wife had the combinations to the gun safes
it hit me one day the thought of some one hurting her if she denied knowing the safes numbers ( which she did not ) and they did not think she was telling the truth . the guns could be replaced
the wife well not so much ,to find another good one 😁
Liberty safe thinks just because Government asks for something they must comply. This request should have gone to the Liberty Safe's legal department to make sure giving the access code was done in a legally required manner. I can see how the employee that gave the code to the police thought he or she was complying with a legal demand, they would be wrong. No search warrant, no code. 90% of the US population does not understand that right. The way the Federal courts operate now even the fruits of a poison tree are admitted to court just to bolster the prosecution's case.
My wife and I are in the market for another safe and Liberty was on the short list. When I read of this episode they were removed. Not just because of the 'backdoor' info they supplied, but also because of their parent company's political contributions. I refuse to pay for the rope that they may try to hang me with.
Acme safe company. Logo is a road runner.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
The question is wether or not the info Liberty supplied is good for all their safes. So now the feds can get into anyones safe from liberty.
That's a good question.
A backdoor code is not specific for a single user. The Liberty backdoor code does indeed allow entry into all of their safes. They may deny this, but they're lying. I've built systems with backdoors in them and every time it was a feature the company wanted. One code to rule them all.
This is an interesting article. If you care to believe what any big company says, there are lots of safe makers that don't allow Big Brother access. Winchester seems to be on the wrong side, though, with the ability to provide a universal access code after proof of ownership is established.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
I bought a Liberty safe last year. After all the posts about people getting locked out of their safes with a bad electronic keypad I opted for the dial lock. I guess Liberty could give out my combo but they would still need to break the key lock.
Kevin, for what it is worth, Winchester would not help me get in my safe or replace key pad on a safe that was still under warranty. So far they will not discuss back door access code even though their web sight says they will help with proof of ownership. It is my understanding that by replacing defective key pad and installing a higher quality key pad, I have effectively removed Winchester's back door code. (If they have one, who knows?????) --------------------Ray
So you're saying their new "opt out" feature is worthless?
So you can opt-out huh, kinda like recovering deleted emails? BS......
You can Opt Out.
Does anyone know if it's a universal code, or an individual one for each safe?
I was locked out of a Winchester for around six months. Spent countless hours trying to get back into safe and finally got in. Read my previous post. About half inch of documentation. I believe the document shown proves they have a back door even if they would not help me. If anyone is desperate on a Winchester safe, I will try to help. -------------------Ray
I was just looking at this lock:
https://sargentandgreenleaf.com/product/6700-series/
ALL electronic locks have security holes that can be exploited.
@toad67 and others: In Liberty's case, they likely took the keypads and re-coded the 'master' code to one they know about. Some of the electronic locks only let you do this once. Thus, Liberty has the code for your safe and for everyone else's safe. That's just a theory but it's exactly what I would do if I was running a nefarious, subversive company masquerading as a friend of the Second Amendment.
In other cases, companies leave the electronic locks alone but don't clearly document how to change the master code. You gotta look into making that happen or you may be left with a factory default master code that can be obtained quite easily. Factory defaults are a safecracker's first step.
If you do have a safe with an electronic lock, go change the master code right now. And no...do not post the code here so we can help you recover it later if need arises. Sheesh.....
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
The master code is one that equates with a master key on a traditional lock. Not all keypads have a master code. But on the ones that do, an owner should change the master code from it's default and the buyer's code from its default.
I'd advise anyone with a keypad on their safe to do some research and find out of their keypad supports a master code. If so, change it. There are lots of good videos on how to change codes on a variety of keypads.
I do miss the days of analog. These digital improvements don't really improve anything.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
So, now I'm wondering how I change the combination on mine (a dial only safe) because I have zero trust they will do the right thing going forward.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
And before anyone gets too much further bent out of shape (if you'll pardon the foreshadowing) it might just be better for the safe company to hand over the code because the alternative is that the feds will just torch open your safe after shooting the family pets. And if their torch causes the house to burn down, so be it. We know this is what they will do because this is what they have done historically.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Agree 100%, Randy.
All this safe discussion has me thinking. And that's rarely good.
If we want to be protective of our valuables, why put them in a container that screams "treasure inside"?
Why doesn't anyone make a safe that looks like a wonky old refrigerator? You get yourself a
LibertyLiberal Safe, you put some Little Debbie cakes in it and store the firearms in the fridge.I know one or two of you are gonna do this.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲
I don't own a gun safe and have no plans to do so. My guns are tools like rakes and shovels I don't lock those up either.
It's largely two fold 1) it's difficult to make something like a fridge impenetrable/difficult-to-access and 2) not everyone wants to look at an ugly fridge in their home.
Other concealment ideas are simply more difficult, but they are done all the time.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
In their home? Inside??? The fridge goes outside next to the abandoned washing machine, the tire pile, and the rusted out Camaro.
Great. Now I have to look for a new hiding spot.
🇺🇲 "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson 🇺🇲