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No codes or inspections where I live for electrical, but I built for what "was" or above the national code for the USA when I built... and yes, both GFCI and AFCI are a pain but I tried my best to use them where the code said I should... since then it has gotten worse as far as costs are concerned and I'm finding out that my 14 year old house is not up to the current code as I'm in process of researching what I need to do for a new build on my property...
What's the problem with GFIs? I have five of them in my house, they are 25 years old. Never had a problem, except one time, had a lightning strike on the house and it blew the GFI in the bathroom. Fried it, I had to replace it.
The AFGFCI are the worstest ever! The early ones you couldn't even plug a vacuum into 'cause the motor would cause them to trip. With the new brushless motors they do OK but any type of motor with brushes are impossible.
It's true. Many brush motors are not going to work well on an arc fault protected circuit. They produce arcs by design. Worse are the AC motors that leak a small amount of current to the ground due to improper shielding. I have a brand new air conditioning unit with built in GFCI in its plug. The protection in the plug accounts for a small leakage current, but on the GFCI protected circuit I've tried to plug it into, no dice because it detects that small leak and trips.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
But doesn't it just give you a warm fuzzy feeling knowing there's a bureaucrat out there somewhere that has your safety and well being at the forefront of his mind?
It's my contention society is continually made weaker by continually erecting societal padding.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Who does this?! As stated in your post "a stupid electrician" add to that a stupid electrical inspector. I was an electrician in the Navy and that issue is electric 101 that I learned in Trade school.
Code requires that new kitchen circuits must be #12 wire.
AFCI breakers are no longer required in Michigan in 1 and/or 2 family home construction and haven't been for a while. Maybe that'll change in the next code cycle but right now they're seen as too quirky.
All of the kitchen receptacles are on a separate circuit which is 12 AWG. The only one is the microwave and I'm not sure why it is the way it is. This is rural Idaho so that may have something to do with it.
Some will die in hot pursuit
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
Comments
GFI's are bad enough, ARC faults are a breed of their own.
All the safety gadgets are for own good but go back and see who lobbied the Dept of Ins to mandate them.
Company that makes them every time. I have sat in on a few building code meetings.
Wiring, code official will turn down some devices if the have too big of a wire.
Something to do with not overheating. Heat will trip the breaker before device burst into flame.
Code is for sissies. Don
No codes or inspections where I live for electrical, but I built for what "was" or above the national code for the USA when I built... and yes, both GFCI and AFCI are a pain but I tried my best to use them where the code said I should... since then it has gotten worse as far as costs are concerned and I'm finding out that my 14 year old house is not up to the current code as I'm in process of researching what I need to do for a new build on my property...
What's the problem with GFIs? I have five of them in my house, they are 25 years old. Never had a problem, except one time, had a lightning strike on the house and it blew the GFI in the bathroom. Fried it, I had to replace it.
The AFGFCI are the worstest ever! The early ones you couldn't even plug a vacuum into 'cause the motor would cause them to trip. With the new brushless motors they do OK but any type of motor with brushes are impossible.
It's true. Many brush motors are not going to work well on an arc fault protected circuit. They produce arcs by design. Worse are the AC motors that leak a small amount of current to the ground due to improper shielding. I have a brand new air conditioning unit with built in GFCI in its plug. The protection in the plug accounts for a small leakage current, but on the GFCI protected circuit I've tried to plug it into, no dice because it detects that small leak and trips.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
But doesn't it just give you a warm fuzzy feeling knowing there's a bureaucrat out there somewhere that has your safety and well being at the forefront of his mind?
It's my contention society is continually made weaker by continually erecting societal padding.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
My electrician advised me GFI - Yes
Arc fault - NO not til they get the bugs worked out. They cause more problems than they solve.
Who does this?! As stated in your post "a stupid electrician" add to that a stupid electrical inspector. I was an electrician in the Navy and that issue is electric 101 that I learned in Trade school.
Code requires that new kitchen circuits must be #12 wire.
AFCI breakers are no longer required in Michigan in 1 and/or 2 family home construction and haven't been for a while. Maybe that'll change in the next code cycle but right now they're seen as too quirky.
All of the kitchen receptacles are on a separate circuit which is 12 AWG. The only one is the microwave and I'm not sure why it is the way it is. This is rural Idaho so that may have something to do with it.
And fiery auto crashes
Some will die in hot pursuit
While sifting through my ashes
Some will fall in love with life
And drink it from a fountain
That is pouring like an avalanche
Coming down the mountain
"Breakers! We don't need no stinking breakers!"