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You can no longer smoke in NYC
lorus
Member Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
Comments
woodyd
BTW I'm a libertarian. I think we should have a vastly reduced common sense set of laws. But I don't make the rules or the society I just live here.
Mark T. Christian
You are a man who has ovbiously never had your wife host a Mary Kay or Avon party. Talk about stink! My dog avoided me for a week.
Clouder..
Don't tell me that all of a sudden it bothers you or that it bothered you all of the time. If you really hated it, you would not have gone to a place that had smokers.
Ban smoking
Ban shooting
Ban internet talk boards, like this
What's next?
Let's let the gov decide, shall we?
1) Requested a non-smoking section
2) If there was non-smoking section I went to a different place
This being the Big Apple there is always another place. I respect the freedom of choice for the others. Its because other dont I have to pay 330 bucks for a handgun license and wait for six months.
The NYC assualt weapons ban was clear prelude to all things that followed.
God Bless our Troops
I don't like cigarette smoke, but I do enjoy an occasional cigar. I went to the casino awhile back and they don't allow cigars. How is someone supposed to play a decent hand of blackjack without a cigar? It has been scientifically proven that cigar smoking improves one's gambling returns and billiard abilities.[;)]
Love them Beavers
SUPPORT THE I.N.S. , THE COUNTRY THEY SAVE COULD BE YOUR OWN
Comparing smoking and shooting is interesting. Where I live you are not free to shoot where ever you wish inside city limits. There is an indoor range near me and it is in a light industrial area and this is set a side as a place for shooting. When the outdoor ranges were open these were in areas specially set aside to avoid bothering other people with noise from gunfire and the danger of stray bullets. You are however free to go out into the desert, far away from others and blast away to your hearts content. Seperate areas for shooting and seperate areas for smoking; each is designed to avoid disturbing other people who have choosen not to participate in these activities. I feel each is a good idea.
Mark T. Christian
I think smokers are kinda like gun owners, a few inconsiderate ones ruin it for all of the rest (the smokers that walk through the non-smoking section lit up, or throw out a butt during the late summer drought and starting fires, etc. I don't have to point out the firearm idiots to this board.)
A local mom and pop restraunt owner went to the doctor a while back and the doctor said he had lung cancer and that his lungs showed he'd been smoking for most of his life - he had never smoked once, but his restraunt was all-smoking and for a lifetime of breathing it he then looked like he smoked too...
His place is now non-smoking...
Cool. That's an excellent argument for enforcing the law every single time. Funny how people NOT in favor of something use these great arguments in support of complete compliance. Thank you for that.
People at the next table who count on me to be more more polite and civilized than they are willing to be get a BIG surprise.
As somebody says around here, don't mistake my kindness for weakness. Man oh man, don't.
Life NRA Member
T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
they don't like what I do. I use a legal product that is heavily taxed
and if you don't like it YOU leave.
By the way....no one has mentioned it, but the REASON that businesses aren't fighting these "restrictions" is because MOST places have seen their business INCREASE after the "restrictions", for the simple fact that more people do not smoke, and will go out and eat or have a drink if they don't have to be all stink-i-fied after only a few minutes there.
Only something like 30% of the adult population smokes. To ignore the other 70% is just bad business.
Merc (who is against smelly stuff, be it cigs, farts or whatever!)
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
Interesting arguement!
7mm,
As a recently reformed smoker who had tried countless times to quit, I have some advice for you,,,, WELBUTRIN!
I honestly swear to you, if I had known it could be that easy to quit I would have tried this stuff years ago. In my case it almost completely eliminated the physical cravings. The psych cravings were still there to be sure, but I could handle those.
Talk to your doctor, make up your mind that you're ready to quit, dig in your heels and give it a try.
You know it's the most important thing you can do for yourself ....... except maybe buying that new gun![;)]
"I would rather have a German division in front of me than to have a French division behind me."
Gen. Patton
If you insist smoking while I'm trying to eat and tell me to leave so you can smoke, will you mind if I sit in the booth next you you and fart the whole time you are there? Fair trade, your smoke for my * gas?
He brings up a good question, if it is taxed is it covered byut the constitution? If so next time a cop tells me I will lose my driving priveledge I will use that argument.
Do you know what "respect for others" means? Did your mother teach you any manners?
Sheesh.
Merc
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
Yes, it is a prescription anti-depressant actually.
From what I understand, it was just by some fluke that they discovered that it helped IMMENSELY with tobacco cravings.
It sure won't do it for you, but in my case at least it was a godsend.
Good Luck!
"I would rather have a German division in front of me than to have a French division behind me."
Gen. Patton
Just leave me the F*** alone, man. G*dd*mn flatlander do-gooder liberal vermin.
Why is it all these threads tonight are on my "hot button" topics? Not sure my blood pressure will stop climbing . . . .
If you want no smoking get the government to ban them. They will never do that because they collect 80 million dollars a day in taxes.
I'm being gouged for taxes that you don't have to pay and you want
me to go out behind the barn to use a legal product because it offends you. Don't hold your breath.
It sounds like a good deal. I mean, I get to pay my own money to smell bad, have health problems and look like a slob.
Paying alot of money to die slowly has always been a fantasy of mine.
Mark T. Christian
This is what we need, someone to decide for everyone else, what is good and what is bad for you.
Oh ya.... What were the three shells used for?
Point of order, I smoke and I think it stinks.
The gene pool needs chlorine.
Businesses that are "open to the public" are still private property--this is a distinction which the government is ignoring with smoking bans; the government is putting restrictions on the use of private property. Whether smoking is allowed or prohibited should be solely the decision of the property/business owners.
And this is why you see "liberals"--who are normally "champions" of individual/personal behavior liberties--so much infavor of smoking bans; they see the ban as a way to further destroy property rights--the elimination of "private property" has always been a goal of socialists.
Woods
Did I ever say I was for an out-right ban on smoking? NO! I just don't want people to be smoking when I'm trying to eat. If you want to smoke, go outside, or somewhere where I won't get sick from it, and stink for 3 days.
I AM for a ban on stupidity, tho, that'd take care of a LOT of people.
Besides....if you want to talk about "rights" it's MY RIGHT NOT TO SMELL YOUR STINKY BUTT WHEN YOU SMOKE!
How is your "right" more important than mine?
Ever heard of "manners"?? How about "respect for others"??
Merc
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
Hot dogs, armour hot dogs, all kinds of kids eat armour hot dogs....
Comp - Funny you should mention the private property issue. A store owner can post a "no firearms allowed" sign because it is private property, but they can't allow smoking in it if there is a ban.
I quit smoking years ago, and the smell is disgusting and I feel sorry (truly, not in a condescending way) for anyone that still smokes, but I agree that the bans are stupid. Business owners should be allowed to have smoking/non-smoking sections if that's what they want to offer. Should vegetarians get to ban meat in restaurants because it smells bad? Or meat if it is fatty (especially the way places prepare it) and is bad for you? If you feel your own health is in danger (poor separation of the sections, or whatever reason) then simply don't patronize that place! Go somewhere else. Let the customers dictate the market instead of another law.
And whoever said business gets better after a ban needs to come visit Tempe AZ and see that they don't know what they're talking about.
Aside from all that, I went to visit my parents when they lived in Argentina for a while.....what a weird experience! Something like 75% of the adult population smokes. You could light up in line at the bank, on the rail cars (their mass transit system), in a movie theater, anywhere! If you asked for the non-smoking section, after looking at you like your from another planet they would sit you in an area where they didn't see someone smoking! Talk about the other end of the spectrum. McDonald's delivering to your home was very cool, though.....
Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?
http://www.gaspforair.org/gedc/gedcecca.htm
http://www.gasp.org/nyrest.html
http://www.no-smoking.org/may02/05-08-02-5.html
These ARE links from no-smoking sites, but common sense would tell you to cater to the majority of people. Simple business.
Also, a lot of the "bans" around the country allow for an exemption for your business, if your business loses something like 5% or more of its sales. Here in Tucson, only something like TWO places applied for the exemption, out of 250 or so (I forget the actual number, but it was very small) restaurants.
I'm not for outlawing smoking totally, I just think that people should have more respect, and not smoke while others are eating.
Merc
Come to think of it.........if people had manners, and respected other's rights to breathe clean air.......we wouldn't NEED these laws....
PS-Here is a quote of what market forces I'm talking about:
"Rob LaMaster, of the Arizona Restaurant Association, argues that market forces are already forcing restaurant owners to address the needs of a steadily growing non-smoking customer base. According to LaMaster, the average annual increase in the total number of restaurants is 3 percent, while the average annual increase in the number of non-smoking restaurants is 33 percent."
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
If you're from Tucson, did you hear about Tempe? No exemptions, and some businesses went under. I agree that it is bad manners to light up while someone else is eating, but are you really ready to legislate manners? My point of " go somewhere else " wasn't to dismiss non-smokers, but to suggest a way to make the point without passing more laws.
Got a new gun for my ex-wife.....pretty good trade, huh?
I see the ban not as any issue about "smoking," but as a serious infrinngement on private property rights.
Businesses that are "open to the public" are still private property--this is a distinction which the government is ignoring with smoking bans; the government is putting restrictions on the use of private property. Whether smoking is allowed or prohibited should be solely the decision of the property/business owners.
And this is why you see "liberals"--who are normally "champions" of individual/personal behavior liberties--so much infavor of smoking bans; they see the ban as a way to further destroy property rights--the elimination of "private property" has always been a goal of socialists.
Competentone-BINGO!!
It always amazes me that when a government steps in and creates a prohibition, the opinions voiced are always "well I dont like it anyway-so it is OK". God forbid the people question whether or not the government should have the authority to enact a restriction on private property is the last thing on peoples minds. The owners of the establishments should decide the smoking issue-the government should not be REQUIRING them to prohibit smoking ON OR IN THEIR PROPERTY-WHICH IS PRIVATE PROPERTY, NOT PUBLIC!
I always love it when I am in the "smoking" section of a restaurant, and some impatient non smoker chooses to take the "first available" seat, which is in the smoking section. They will start to wave their hands in front of their faces, complain to each other about the smoke(loud enough so that I can hear it), and then, after realizing their little hints are having no effect on me, will ask me to put out my cigarette. I always politely tell them "NO". If they wanted to eat in a smokr free environment, then they should wait another fifteen minutes and take a table in the non smoking section.Ifthey choose to take the "first available" in the smoking section, then they have to deal with the inconvenience of smokers. No one forced them to sit in the smoking section, they made the choice, and should not be so rude as to ask smokers to not smoke. I passed up on a "first available" in the non smoking section, cause I wanted to have a couple of cigarettes with my meal- I waited to get what I want. If someone chooses not to wait to get what they want, then THEY GET WHAT THEY DONT WANT!
But this entire issue should not whether or not we like or dislike smoking in so called public(really private)places-the issue should be whether or not the government should be deciding what owners of private property can and can not do
"It is important, that the habits of thinking in a free country should inspire caution in those entrusted with its administration, to confine themselves within their constitutional spheres, avoiding in the exercise of the powers of one department to encroach upon another. The spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers of all the departments into one, and thus to create, whatever the form of government, a real despotism.."
-George Washington
"It is important, that the habits of thinking in a free country should inspire caution in those entrusted with its administration, to confine themselves within their constitutional spheres, avoiding in the exercise of the powers of one department to encroach upon another. The spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers of all the departments into one, and thus to create, whatever the form of government, a real despotism.."
-George Washington
Here are some sources that say that business increased after the ban. It only makes sense....the MAJORITY of people don't smoke, so you should cater to them, instead of the other way around. Unless you are selling cigarettes, of course.
http://www.gaspforair.org/gedc/gedcecca.htm
http://www.gasp.org/nyrest.html
http://www.no-smoking.org/may02/05-08-02-5.html
These ARE links from no-smoking sites, but common sense would tell you to cater to the majority of people. Simple business.
Also, a lot of the "bans" around the country allow for an exemption for your business, if your business loses something like 5% or more of its sales. Here in Tucson, only something like TWO places applied for the exemption, out of 250 or so (I forget the actual number, but it was very small) restaurants.
I'm not for outlawing smoking totally, I just think that people should have more respect, and not smoke while others are eating.
Merc
Come to think of it.........if people had manners, and respected other's rights to breathe clean air.......we wouldn't NEED these laws....
PS-Here is a quote of what market forces I'm talking about:
"Rob LaMaster, of the Arizona Restaurant Association, argues that market forces are already forcing restaurant owners to address the needs of a steadily growing non-smoking customer base. According to LaMaster, the average annual increase in the total number of restaurants is 3 percent, while the average annual increase in the number of non-smoking restaurants is 33 percent."
NO! You may not have my guns! Now go crawl back into your hole!
****************************************
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
Thanks for the links, but so what?. Whether or not the ban will effect business is a non issue-those businesses should be free to decide for themselves whether or not they will allow smoking in their businesses and PRIVATE establishments. They should not be forced to CATER to the majority-they should be allowed to decide what they want in their business. Just because a MAJORITY of the people do not like smoking in restaurants, does not mean that a private establishment should be forced to CATER to the wants of the majority. Do you think that if a majority of the people object to music during dinner, then the government has the right to prohibit restaurant owners from playing music in their establishments? COMMON SENSE may dictate to restaurant owners that it is better BUSINESS for them to be non smoking-but again, that is an issue for them to decide-not the government.
And people do have a right to breathe clean air while they are eating-they also have a right to not dine in an establishment where people smoke. A restaurant owner should not be forced to give up his rights so that someone can exercise their rights in his business. If someone feels their rights are being violated(the right to breather clean air) then they have the right to not dine in that establishment-no one is forcing them to breathe the dirty air, they are not being forced to dine in the owners establishment, and be subjected to the dirty air. They should exercise their right to breath clean air somewhere else.
"It is important, that the habits of thinking in a free country should inspire caution in those entrusted with its administration, to confine themselves within their constitutional spheres, avoiding in the exercise of the powers of one department to encroach upon another. The spirit of encroachment tends to consolidate the powers of all the departments into one, and thus to create, whatever the form of government, a real despotism.."
-George Washington
That being said, after being in California where smoking indoors is mostly illegal, I went through Las Vegas a while back. Stepped inside a resturant and almost gagged. Turned around and went back outside as the smell of smoke was overpowering. We went to drive - through as we could not stand the indoor smoke. In the future we will bypass Nevada as a place to go into buildings.
"If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain