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I suck at trap-help appreciated
spurgemastur
Member Posts: 5,655 ✭✭
About five years ago, I bought my first shotgun (Rem 870 Express, 20 Ga) and went shooting trap. I broke 18 of 25 clays my first time out, and felt pretty good about it.
Since then, I've been grouse-hunting twice (totally skunked; didn't even mount the gun), and have shot trap from those cheap Walmart clay-throwers several times. I do pretty good with the small, Walmart clay-throwers.
Last weekend, I went to a proper trap range and....well, it wasn't good. I shot four rounds and although I wasn't counting, I doubt I hit over 45 of 100 targets thrown.
There are some skills that I can refine: I know I tend to shoot under the target, and I know I have a flinch that shows up from time to time, but I'm wondering: should I get another gun? (Yes, of course I should, but will it fix my problem?)
Specifically, should I get a 12-gauge?
I'm not wealthy. If I get a 12-gauge, it will not be some cool over-under. It's going to be something that costs less than $250.
So: is it worth it to shop for an inexpensive 12 GA, or should I just accept that I suck at trap and try to do better with my inexpensive 20 GA?
Perhaps a better way of proposing the question is this: is an inexpensive 12 Ga going to do more for me than an inexpensive 20 Ga, or is it more important to figure out where I suck and try to fix those problems?
Thanks in advance for your input.
(One day when I'm wealthier, I will buy a nice over-under for trap shooting, but that is not feasible right now.)
Since then, I've been grouse-hunting twice (totally skunked; didn't even mount the gun), and have shot trap from those cheap Walmart clay-throwers several times. I do pretty good with the small, Walmart clay-throwers.
Last weekend, I went to a proper trap range and....well, it wasn't good. I shot four rounds and although I wasn't counting, I doubt I hit over 45 of 100 targets thrown.
There are some skills that I can refine: I know I tend to shoot under the target, and I know I have a flinch that shows up from time to time, but I'm wondering: should I get another gun? (Yes, of course I should, but will it fix my problem?)
Specifically, should I get a 12-gauge?
I'm not wealthy. If I get a 12-gauge, it will not be some cool over-under. It's going to be something that costs less than $250.
So: is it worth it to shop for an inexpensive 12 GA, or should I just accept that I suck at trap and try to do better with my inexpensive 20 GA?
Perhaps a better way of proposing the question is this: is an inexpensive 12 Ga going to do more for me than an inexpensive 20 Ga, or is it more important to figure out where I suck and try to fix those problems?
Thanks in advance for your input.
(One day when I'm wealthier, I will buy a nice over-under for trap shooting, but that is not feasible right now.)
Comments
Do you need a new gun?
A 12 gauge is the prefered shotgun for trap, the extra shot is obviously an advantage.
Does your shotgun barrel have a rib?
Does it have two beads, or just one bead in the front?
Shotguns are not like rifles or pistols, throw out what you know and be ready to learn. there's tons of guys out there with good old Remington 870's who can bust 70-80 targets or more, every time they go out, the expensive guns have a place, but we won't get into that until you can hit lots of the clays.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
I have no experience with the 870/20 but I am seriously considering buying one in the next month or so. I held one in my hand yesterday and it felt pretty darned good. Not the prettiest gun, but who cares? I don't buy guns because they look good -- I buy guns because they function well.
I'd say keep your 20, chat with the guys on the trap range who seem to be regulars, and you'll get a lot of advice as to what to do. You'll probably get them to watch how you shoot and they'll make recommendations.
My guess is it isn't your gun, you're probably not giving the birds enough lead or you're overshooting them. They'll be able to figure that out in only a few shots after watching you.
I too had little money to buy a good shotgun. I shot a mossberg 500 because it fit my budget. I hit some things and missed a lot too.
Then I saved and purchased my Browning Citori with 3-1/2" chambers 30" barrels and invector plus choke tubes.
My shooting improved by AT LEAST 100%.
A better fitting, better made shotgun will help you a lot IMO.
To answer some questions: My 870 has a rib and a single bead at the front. I shoot the smallest shot I can put my hands on (usually 7.5 or 8).
Thanks for the offer, Dave W, but I'm about as far from Pensacola as you can get and still be in the continental US (WA state).
A trap gun stock is configured differently than a field gun therefore reducing felt recoil. When firing the gun, a curved stock will allow the gun to raise up and bump your cheek. A straight stock will recoil rearward into your shoulder and not hurt your face. When the face gets beat up it sends a signal to the brain that everytime you allow the finger to pull the trigger, I'm gonna get clobbered. Pretty soon the brain won't let the finger pull the trigger and you get a FLINCH!!! Don't let it get this far, if you are going to shoot a lot, get a gun that fits you and won't bump your face.
Dear Spurgemastur: First go to the Amature Trap Assocation web page (www1.shootata.com) and then find the list of clubs in your area. Then go to the web pages for the clubs near you and see when they are having a shoot or if there is a way to contact the club. You'll probably find that you'll be welcome to attend and after you begin talking to folks and explaining your situation there will be several folks who will let you try their guns. Now, like the other folks have said, a trap gun that is fitted to you will help your shooting and the guns you borrow obviously won't be fitted to you, but you'll get a good idea of what a better gun will do and you will probably get some pointers as to your form as well. Many of the clubs offer classes and training sessions. Best of luck and keep us posted -- Steve
More good advice.
I've found a trap club. It used to claim to be the oldest gun club in the US, but I guess there's some joint in FLA that is older, so now it's just the second oldest (Lewiston Gun Club, ID).
They're in a bit of a tight spot right now, as they're getting kicked off the site that they lease because the Lewiston airport needs to expand. Hopefully they'll be able to relocate rather than just having to shut down.
Tell you what, though, it's kind of a weird place to shoot. They actually throw the clays over the airport fence, so they're usually over aiport property when you break them.
So you'll be lining up a shot and suddenly you're sweeping a passenger airplane that's taxiing down the runway. The runway's far enough that you'd never hit it with a shotgun, but it is a little odd. I'm sure it's also a little odd to be the passenger sitting in the plane who looks out the window and sees a line of 30 shotguns pointed in his general direction.
It is relatively easy to get proficient enough to hit most of the clays, most of the time. It is an entirely different world when you stop worrying about 25 straight, and when you are worried about 100 straight.
The next best shooter uses an old Rem 1187 that he uses hunting all the time. Again, nothing fancy.
There is another guy that spends big bucks on his guns, real pretty, fitted all of that, he has hunted Africa, etc. You get the picture.
He is not near the best.
We only shoot clay birds, not really skeet or trap, just commercial throwers (Lincolns) that are back on your right and left. But we can throw them any which way. Not like trap.
In trap, the birds all come from the same place. Its nothing like being in the field.
At our range, the very best shooter is a guy around 80, walks with a cane, gets into the cage, leans his cane against the cage and gets ready with an old double barrel 12ga. No fancy guns here.
The next best shooter uses an old Rem 1187 that he uses hunting all the time. Again, nothing fancy.
There is another guy that spends big bucks on his guns, real pretty, fitted all of that, he has hunted Africa, etc. You get the picture.
He is not near the best.
We only shoot clay birds, not really skeet or trap, just commercial throwers (Lincolns) that are back on your right and left. But we can throw them any which way. Not like trap.
In trap, the birds all come from the same place. Its nothing like being in the field.
The trap range that I frequent uses three different houses to launch the clays.
in a 20, youre only shooting 7/8oz of lead. once you get past the 16yd line, youre gonna be at a real bad disadvantage and youll need the extra lead a 12 offers. and again....get a gun with a monte carlo stock so the gun will have a built in rise on the target when you aim.
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
I wish there were real trap of skeet ranges around here.
But there ain't. We got what we got.
We rent the outdoor range land and cannot build any structures, etc.
A better fitting, better made shotgun will help you a lot IMO.
+ 1. My right inseam is 38". Most off the rack shotguns have a 14.5" LOP. My LOP is 17.5". It takes time and effort to bring a poorly fitted gun up to point. My misses go high (I'm not that avid a trap shooter) because my guns just don't shoulder right for me and I'm not looking down the barrel but over it. Getting lined up takes longer and the birds are out almost too far by the time I am lined up.
Dang guys! Reading this thread is giving me the "I WANNA GO SHOOT TRAP AGAIN" feeling. Only have two trap guns left. One is a Charles Daly OU with adjustable comb and butt pad and the other is a 1187 trap. There was a time when I shot four and five times a week.
Well then I guess the post was worth more than I thought. Go break some clay already!
Leave the trap range to the trap shooters.If you want to hit birds find a skeet range or sporting clays.It will help you with leading and follow through.shoot a couple of normal rounds then a round of report doubles.Station 8 will give you a twist but it can be done[:D].My hits in the field increased substancially after I started shooting skeet as well as long running shots with a rifle.You wont be dissapointed;ST
Yes, that sounds fun. I'm actually not much of a hunter. Still, I think I'll try to learn on a trap range, and slowly start to work skeet, 5-stand and sporting clays into the mix. I learn better if I can see a bit of success, rather than feeling like a monkey all day long with the sporting clays [;)].
Get a 10 GA![:D][:D]
hehe.
Actually, I'm leaning towards keeping the current, cheap 20GA until I can afford a nice trap gun. Difference in 100 rounds of 20GA vs 12GA is about $3. So if I shoot four rounds per outing (which is what I do), I can shoot 50 outings before I save the cost of a cheap 12GA. And given that I'm planning to shoot every other week, that's two years, by which time I expect to see my salary triple (no, still not wealthy, just expecting to make a living wage within two years--I'm close to done with grad school).
The gun fund is limited. I'm not sure I want to tie a bunch of it up in a trap gun. I have other gun desires, too.
Get a 10 GA![:D][:D]
LMAO.
I can't imagine shooting trap with a 10-gauge. 25 shots and your shoulder would be hamburger!
quote:Originally posted by bigtire
Get a 10 GA![:D][:D]
hehe.
Actually, I'm leaning towards keeping the current, cheap 20GA until I can afford a nice trap gun. Difference in 100 rounds of 20GA vs 12GA is about $3. So if I shoot four rounds per outing (which is what I do), I can shoot 50 outings before I save the cost of a cheap 12GA. And given that I'm planning to shoot every other week, that's two years, by which time I expect to see my salary triple (no, still not wealthy, just expecting to make a living wage within two years--I'm close to done with grad school).
The gun fund is limited. I'm not sure I want to tie a bunch of it up in a trap gun. I have other gun desires, too.
If you want to be any good at skeet or trap you have to practice a lot and that means reloding. The cost to reload 12 ga is not really much more than 20 ga.
By a cheap 12ga and a reloading set up instead of an expensive shotgun. I carry my Win. 1300 on to the range against guys with $3000 shotguns and I beat them all the time.
quote:Originally posted by spurgemastur
quote:Originally posted by bigtire
Get a 10 GA![:D][:D]
hehe.
Actually, I'm leaning towards keeping the current, cheap 20GA until I can afford a nice trap gun. Difference in 100 rounds of 20GA vs 12GA is about $3. So if I shoot four rounds per outing (which is what I do), I can shoot 50 outings before I save the cost of a cheap 12GA. And given that I'm planning to shoot every other week, that's two years, by which time I expect to see my salary triple (no, still not wealthy, just expecting to make a living wage within two years--I'm close to done with grad school).
The gun fund is limited. I'm not sure I want to tie a bunch of it up in a trap gun. I have other gun desires, too.
If you want to be any good at skeet or trap you have to practice a lot and that means reloding. The cost to reload 12 ga is not really much more than 20 ga.
By a cheap 12ga and a reloading set up instead of an expensive shotgun. I carry my Win. 1300 on to the range against guys with $3000 shotguns and I beat them all the time.
Agreed (I don't reload, but I mean with the 1300).
Dang guys! Reading this thread is giving me the "I WANNA GO SHOOT TRAP AGAIN" feeling. Only have two trap guns left. One is a Charles Daly OU with adjustable comb and butt pad and the other is a 1187 trap. There was a time when I shot four and five times a week.
Me too....and I dont shoot trap.[:D] Its hell getting older.
Spanielsells, I often shoot trap in Indiana with a Kiwi, amazing fellow!
Love the kiwis, tried to find one to marry back in 1990 (found a pollack instead). But, I'm not from New Zealand nor do I live there... despite what my profile might say. Been there, fell in love with the place, want to go back and YES, the kiwis are amazing people.
and, if you get advice from a local pro, i'll bet a dollar to a donut, he's gonna tell you the same thing im telling you, plus....get a monte carlo stock![^] sometimes you have to pay a little up front to acheive sucess. otherwise, its a long uphill battle against adversaries that could have been avoided if youd just started with the basics in the first place.
you dont play baseball with football gear.
get rid of the football gear and get a baseball uniform. and when you start hitting homeruns, youll be amazed.
and always remember this, you only waste money at a trap range if you miss and dont know why. if you miss and know why, you practice 'not' to on the next shot, and will have no one to blame but yourself if you miss again. its easy to blame the gun for misses, but its not so easy if you have the right gun and you know its fitted right. then, when you start hitting those 25 straights, youll see that it was worth the extra money you invested.[;)]
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
Trying to save money, is going to cost you more than getting a gun that fits, and shoots high for trap.
The first hurdle is the 25 straight. It may seem impossible, but after a while when you don't go clean on a round you will wonder what you are doing wrong!
Good luck
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
I hunt with a 20 ga (lighter after a full days walking, swings easier for me, and the ammo is lighter as well -- I guess I have the "back packing" mentality) I also enjoy the challenge.
If I were to shoot trap, I would get a 12 ga.
Last year was the third time I shot trap. Hunting camp I was at set up a thrower. Everyone laughed at me shooting trap. However, when the pheasants starting getting up, the laughter died.
I can not shoot trap worth a crap with that 20 but put me on birds on a day when I am hot -- we are going to get out limit (I have been known to shoot a triple with pheasants when hunting).
My cousin shoots skeet. He is pretty good. In a league and all that. Has a nice fancy over and under 12ga. We had to shoot all his birds last year -- he couldn't hit a live bird if he tried. When we were growing up, he had an old 12ga pump -- he was a good bird shooter then.
Don't get rid of that 20 if you like it. It will make a better shooter out of you.[;)] But for trap -- 12ga so you are on a more even playing field.
I am not a trap shooter. However, I have shot it three times.
I hunt with a 20 ga (lighter after a full days walking, swings easier for me, and the ammo is lighter as well -- I guess I have the "back packing" mentality) I also enjoy the challenge.
If I were to shoot trap, I would get a 12 ga.
Last year was the third time I shot trap. Hunting camp I was at set up a thrower. Everyone laughed at me shooting trap. However, when the pheasants starting getting up, the laughter died.
I can not shoot trap worth a crap with that 20 but put me on birds on a day when I am hot -- we are going to get out limit (I have been known to shoot a triple with pheasants when hunting).
My cousin shoots skeet. He is pretty good. In a league and all that. Has a nice fancy over and under 12ga. We had to shoot all his birds last year -- he couldn't hit a live bird if he tried. When we were growing up, he had an old 12ga pump -- he was a good bird shooter then.
Don't get rid of that 20 if you like it. It will make a better shooter out of you.[;)] But for trap -- 12ga so you are on a more even playing field.
I think I won't get rid of the 20GA. I'm not competitive anyway. If I learn to shoot with the 20GA, the 12GA (when I can afford it) will make my life cake!
Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
Former NSSA All American
Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
MO, CT, VA.
Sell something and get a 12ga.