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You say you "gave up everything else for 2 years". don't take this the wrong way but it sounds more like an addiction than a commitment. Moderation is something some folks just cannot grasp.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by 00buck
K Townman,
So were you forced to go on a mission or did you go on your own free will and choice?
Sounds like you have been offended by someone and blaming god for it.
Maybe if you would have served more faithfully on your mission your family would have been blessed more, or maybe they were blessed from other things happening to them.
Come on K Townman - you know you can't prove any religion or if there is a god. That is up to you to decided. But it sounds like your heart is too full of anger and rage to want to know anything.
Where did you serve your mission at anyway?
Sounds like you're a Mormon, or know alot about them. You know the answers to your questions. I said that, at the time, I felt like I was doing the right thing. Since then, I've felt like a fool. I wasted 2 years of my life!
I was in Los Angeles.
So what was the turning point from wanting to be on a mission and doing the right thing - to I hate this shiz and it's not right.
Missions are tough, they make you question yourself and beliefs over and over again. They are the best times and the worst of times.
I served a mission in Minnesota. Ya it was tough but is was sure worth it. I did a lot of growing up. Learned a lot about myself, my religion and know that someone loves me more than I will ever know.
It not easy for a 19 or 20 year old to leave home for two years and spend that whole time preaching the gospel. But you did it and you learned from it.
And I am sure you know how much Satan, the devil, the adversary work on people who are try to do the right thing.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by tpacuriosity
Yeah well, that seems to be the question that has perplexed the masses throughout the ages, my friend. You can take the position of: yeah, you see....you can't prove it. And on the other hand, how about you prove with absolute certainty, that they are not heard? I think you'll find that what can be proved for sure is that there are many better things to do with your time then to chase chicken/egg scenarios thru the recesses of your brain.
Hey, if you like to pray, do it. If you don't like it, forget about it. Let me ask you something KT, do you ever volunteer your time or do some type of community service (and, no...not the one the judge told you to do!)at all? The point I'm trying to make is that if you do, hopefully, it is just to do it, and not because you are expecting something in return. You just do it, to do it. And maybe a byproduct of doing it is a positive feeling internally. Well, maybe it's the same kinda thing. Or, maybe I'm just some pathetic *-nozzle who is up way too late and should just go to the kitchen, pour myself a nice tall glass a shut the hell up, and go to sleep! Either way, best of luck! ;-)
I sacrificed 2 years of my life serving this entity you call GOD. I was not paid for anything that I did. I was physically, and verbally abused by those whom I thought I was trying to help. I suffered many hardships within that 2 year period. I thought I was doing what GOD wanted me to do. Meanwhile, at home, my mother tried to commit suicide and my baby brother got his girlfriend pregnant and dropped out of high school to marry her. I should have been home taking care of family, not wasting my time on people who didn't give a dying rats * about me. I prayed for my family, yet nothing seemed to improve. This GOD and CHRIST seemed to care less about me than the people I was trying to help.
I gave up everything in my life, for 2 years, to be a servant of the LORD. What good did it do me? NONE! So don't try and tell me that being a follower of JESUS is going to improve my life! That's a load of BS! BTDT!
I would venture to say that you have never had a personal relationship with the Lord...and this may be why you have never experienced Him. Once you come to KNOW the Lord, you enter into an eternal relationship and that knowledge is complete. I don't know who and how you were introduced to "religion"...but I would bet it was just that...religion.
To answer your original question, God speaks to His children. Sometimes when I pray, He will tell me that He's heard my request and the matter is settled (in accordance with His will, mind you).
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
k_townman, It appears to me you have misunderstood the whole concept, but that's up to you.
The early Christians prayed and they were eaten by lions, and worse. Look what happened to Job. If you're looking for Santa Claus you won't find him in the Christian religion.
Be that as it may, I stand by what I have said on these forums before. When people post religious questions they are not looking for answers, they are looking for arguments. When people reply to those religious questions, they are accommodating the questioner.
I just want some pulpit pounding, bible thumping, knee bending, CHRISTIAN to prove, beyond any doubt, their beliefs to me. There is the challenge. I have thrown down the gauntlet.
You are not going to find the answer you are looking for with a heart that is as hardened as yours is...
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
quote:I just want some pulpit pounding, bible thumping, knee bending, CHRISTIAN to prove, beyond any doubt, their beliefs to me. There is the challenge. I have thrown down the gauntlet.
I just want some pulpit pounding keyboard pounding, bible "Monthly Atheist" thumping, knee bending, CHRISTIAN ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC to prove, beyond any doubt, their beliefs to me. There is the challenge. I have thrown down the gauntlet...I'm waiting...[;)]
quote:Originally posted by cartod
You say you "gave up everything else for 2 years". don't take this the wrong way but it sounds more like an addiction than a commitment. Moderation is something some folks just cannot grasp.
There is no such thing as moderation when you are a Mormon missionary.
You cannot watch TV.
You cannot listen to the radio.
You cannot read any published material. Unless it's published by the Mormon church.
You cannot have any kind of relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
You cannot listen to any kind of music, unless it is produced by the Mormon church.
You cannot go swimming.
You cannot have in your posession, any type of firearms.
You are only allowed to see G rated movies.
That's sort of a Readers Digest version of what it's like to be a Mormon missionary.
I'm all for moderation.
I would venture to say that you have never had a personal relationship with the Lord...and this may be why you have never experienced Him. Once you come to KNOW the Lord, you enter into an eternal relationship and that knowledge is complete. I don't know who and how you were introduced to "religion"...but I would bet it was just that...religion.
To answer your original question, God speaks to His children. Sometimes when I pray, He will tell me that He's heard my request and the matter is settled (in accordance with His will, mind you).
I could grow alot of vegetables with that much manure. P.U.[xx(]
I can't show you. You need to do that for yourself. However, I am living the life. I am truly blessed because of my faith and obedience to the law of God. It's simple really. BIBLE stands for Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth. It's really just a manual. In my life I have seen the good and the really bad. When things get bad, prayer calms me down and puts me in check. Nothing can be taken from me. My life is forever and this three dimensional space suit I call a body is just a test. The mind is a powerful thing that has been numbed down and stupified by electronics, media and so on. Opening your mind to energy and control is really quite amazing. You have Abundance Choice and Manifestation. Think about that for a while, A Crusty old Marine diver from name made a joke about it so I could remember.. AbuChoMan. Say that like the VC and it's funny. Abundance of things around you and goals, your choice out of everything you can to and then you manifest it by thinking or believing it will be true.
The thing that kills me is that God gets the ultimate "get out of jail free" card. When you pray for something, and it happends, it's a miracle. When you pray for something, and it doesn't happen it's "God's will," and should not be questioned.
I guess Einstein put it best when he said that there are two ways of looking at life, one is that nothing is a miracle, and the other that everything is.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
quote:Originally posted by cartod
You say you "gave up everything else for 2 years". don't take this the wrong way but it sounds more like an addiction than a commitment. Moderation is something some folks just cannot grasp.
There is no such thing as moderation when you are a Mormon missionary.
You cannot watch TV.
You cannot listen to the radio.
You cannot read any published material. Unless it's published by the Mormon church.
You cannot have any kind of relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
You cannot listen to any kind of music, unless it is produced by the Mormon church.
You cannot go swimming.
You cannot have in your posession, any type of firearms.
You are only allowed to see G rated movies.
That's sort of a Readers Digest version of what it's like to be a Mormon missionary.
I'm all for moderation.
You ought to give the real God of Christianity a shot...IMO. You just might be shocked.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
I sympathize with you on all levels, and I am not trying to be a smart-a, but how is it God's fault that your mother tried to commit suicide and your brother got a girl pregnant and dropped out of school. Could it possibly be their fault?
I fervently prayed for my family members, and NOTHING happened. I put my life on hold for 2 years, and I got no help from HIM when I needed it most. That's what leads me to believe that there is nothing but empty space 'out there.'
Lesson one: Gods timing is not our timing. The question is, we praise and trust Him in the good times, will we praise and trust Him in the bad?
I think at least part of your problem is you have extremely poor, almost nonexistent comprehension skills, or maybe, just maybe you're only looking for an argument as I said before.
Would you care to explain the following exchange where you asked, challenged actually, "some pulpit pounding, Bible thumping, knee bending, Christian to prove, beyond a doubt" their beliefs to you.
When I brought to your attention that you know or should know you are demanding proof of something which can't be proved in the conventional secular sense, you came up with some absurd assertion that I thought if you didn't believe as I do you must be an ignorant savage.
I didn't mention what I believe. Only that I can't prove it to your satisfaction, much less what I believe is true.
You chose to ignore what I said and make an argumentative remark that probably made you feel better but exposed your intentions and ignorance.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
I just want some pulpit pounding, bible thumping, knee bending, CHRISTIAN to prove, beyond any doubt, their beliefs to me. There is the challenge. I have thrown down the gauntlet.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
That may not the stupidest thing I've read on these forums, but it has to be in the top two.
If it could be proven it wouldn't be a matter of "belief" and "faith". I probably can't prove to your satisfaction that I believe what I believe, much less what I believe is true.
If you are really that ignorant, my advice would be to stop bragging about it.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
You would be surprised how many "good" church-going folks have said almost the very same thing to me. "If you don't believe in God and Christ, like I do, then you must be an ignorant savage."
Does it comfort you to know that you fit right in with the rest of the self-righteous christians? Thank you for your 'heart-felt' concern. [:p][:X][V]
There you go again. Associating me with ignorance. Now deny that you have responded at least twice, using the word ignorant or ignorance to define my character, simply because my views are different than yours.
It's easy to see how christian crusaders could slay thousands, because they were ignorant about christianity. Strange how christianity rhymes with insanity. [}:)][;)][:p]
There you go again. Associating me with ignorance. Now deny that you have responded at least twice, using the word ignorant or ignorance to define my character, simply because my views are different than yours.
It's easy to see how christian crusaders could slay thousands, because they were ignorant about christianity. Strange how christianity rhymes with insanity. [}:)][;)][:p]
I haven't said anything about your "character". I don't know what your character is and really don't care. Your "challenge" is ignorant and if you don't know that your are more ignorant than I gave you credit for.
You know or should know that matters of "belief" and "faith" are not provable in the conventional secular sense. Your challenge and your whole pocket full of gauntlets won't make it so. If you can't get that through your head, your are ignorant.
I knew you wouldn't address the matter of replying to a comment that I didn't make as though I had made it. I don't expect you will. When it's embarrassing or uncomfortable to answer, just change the subject. [;)]
I was going to stay out of this thread but decided to put in my 2 cents. I hope I don't offend you as that is surely not my intention. You sound like you are really seeking some information and I want to share a few things.
#1: God doesn't promise us that we will be successful in life, have great health, having a good job, having no problems in our lives. I would recommend that you re-read the book of Job to see what he went through.
#2: It's not a problem questioning God. Jesus did it.
#3: The Lord answers His children's prayers. It might be yes, might be no, might be later on. There are different thoughts about if He hears the prayer of a lost person, and this might be something that can be questioned by many.
#4: Please---go to www.josh.org. This is the website of Josh McDowell and he has written several books and also has lots of biblical information to offer. One of his books is entitled "More Than A Carpenter", another is "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" (I think that is the title, but you can see it at his website). Josh was an atheist and did research and became a Christian and his materials are widely used throughout the world.
I will be praying that you will get some answers that would help you deal with the problems that you have experienced. I have gone through some awful health issues and have an uncurable and untreatable muscle disease that will eventually take my life. I had to retire from my business, and now either in a hospital bed, a lift chair, or my power wheel chair. At first I asked the Lord "why me", but eventually came to "why not me?" I believe that I will soon be healed of this disease (Inclusion Body Myositis) and will be walking the streets of Heaven. I have been blessed with a wonderful wife of 39 years, 2 great kids who married wonderful Chritian mates, and 4 grandchildren. I am extremely blessed with what the Lord has given me.
Please, go to Josh's website and hopefully you will get some answers.
I note multiple violations and I haven't even tried to read every post. "Be nice" was trashed to pieces. Multiple statements of faith are stated as fact. Multiple insults hurled.
This is the way it always goes. Why can't we just leave religion alone? This is, after all, a GUN forum.
Comments
Not a troll. But certainly a gullible *, at one time in my life.
quote:Originally posted by Sawz
Just out of curiosity, does your Mom and Brother blame God for what they did?
They no longer attend any church. Does that answer your question?
No it doesnt
quote:Originally posted by 00buck
K Townman,
So were you forced to go on a mission or did you go on your own free will and choice?
Sounds like you have been offended by someone and blaming god for it.
Maybe if you would have served more faithfully on your mission your family would have been blessed more, or maybe they were blessed from other things happening to them.
Come on K Townman - you know you can't prove any religion or if there is a god. That is up to you to decided. But it sounds like your heart is too full of anger and rage to want to know anything.
Where did you serve your mission at anyway?
Sounds like you're a Mormon, or know alot about them. You know the answers to your questions. I said that, at the time, I felt like I was doing the right thing. Since then, I've felt like a fool. I wasted 2 years of my life!
I was in Los Angeles.
So what was the turning point from wanting to be on a mission and doing the right thing - to I hate this shiz and it's not right.
Missions are tough, they make you question yourself and beliefs over and over again. They are the best times and the worst of times.
I served a mission in Minnesota. Ya it was tough but is was sure worth it. I did a lot of growing up. Learned a lot about myself, my religion and know that someone loves me more than I will ever know.
It not easy for a 19 or 20 year old to leave home for two years and spend that whole time preaching the gospel. But you did it and you learned from it.
And I am sure you know how much Satan, the devil, the adversary work on people who are try to do the right thing.
quote:Originally posted by tpacuriosity
Yeah well, that seems to be the question that has perplexed the masses throughout the ages, my friend. You can take the position of: yeah, you see....you can't prove it. And on the other hand, how about you prove with absolute certainty, that they are not heard? I think you'll find that what can be proved for sure is that there are many better things to do with your time then to chase chicken/egg scenarios thru the recesses of your brain.
Hey, if you like to pray, do it. If you don't like it, forget about it. Let me ask you something KT, do you ever volunteer your time or do some type of community service (and, no...not the one the judge told you to do!)at all? The point I'm trying to make is that if you do, hopefully, it is just to do it, and not because you are expecting something in return. You just do it, to do it. And maybe a byproduct of doing it is a positive feeling internally. Well, maybe it's the same kinda thing. Or, maybe I'm just some pathetic *-nozzle who is up way too late and should just go to the kitchen, pour myself a nice tall glass a shut the hell up, and go to sleep! Either way, best of luck! ;-)
I sacrificed 2 years of my life serving this entity you call GOD. I was not paid for anything that I did. I was physically, and verbally abused by those whom I thought I was trying to help. I suffered many hardships within that 2 year period. I thought I was doing what GOD wanted me to do. Meanwhile, at home, my mother tried to commit suicide and my baby brother got his girlfriend pregnant and dropped out of high school to marry her. I should have been home taking care of family, not wasting my time on people who didn't give a dying rats * about me. I prayed for my family, yet nothing seemed to improve. This GOD and CHRIST seemed to care less about me than the people I was trying to help.
I gave up everything in my life, for 2 years, to be a servant of the LORD. What good did it do me? NONE! So don't try and tell me that being a follower of JESUS is going to improve my life! That's a load of BS! BTDT!
I would venture to say that you have never had a personal relationship with the Lord...and this may be why you have never experienced Him. Once you come to KNOW the Lord, you enter into an eternal relationship and that knowledge is complete. I don't know who and how you were introduced to "religion"...but I would bet it was just that...religion.
To answer your original question, God speaks to His children. Sometimes when I pray, He will tell me that He's heard my request and the matter is settled (in accordance with His will, mind you).
Because He promised to hear.
But you will only come to Him on His terms, however.
And there will be only one prayer that He will hear, for now.
I think.
You may think, but I know you are correct (to the best of my knowledge)[;)].
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
k_townman, It appears to me you have misunderstood the whole concept, but that's up to you.
The early Christians prayed and they were eaten by lions, and worse. Look what happened to Job. If you're looking for Santa Claus you won't find him in the Christian religion.
Be that as it may, I stand by what I have said on these forums before. When people post religious questions they are not looking for answers, they are looking for arguments. When people reply to those religious questions, they are accommodating the questioner.
I just want some pulpit pounding, bible thumping, knee bending, CHRISTIAN to prove, beyond any doubt, their beliefs to me. There is the challenge. I have thrown down the gauntlet.
You are not going to find the answer you are looking for with a heart that is as hardened as yours is...
George Carlin
I just want some pulpit pounding keyboard pounding, bible "Monthly Atheist" thumping, knee bending, CHRISTIAN ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC to prove, beyond any doubt, their beliefs to me. There is the challenge. I have thrown down the gauntlet...I'm waiting...[;)]
You say you "gave up everything else for 2 years". don't take this the wrong way but it sounds more like an addiction than a commitment. Moderation is something some folks just cannot grasp.
There is no such thing as moderation when you are a Mormon missionary.
You cannot watch TV.
You cannot listen to the radio.
You cannot read any published material. Unless it's published by the Mormon church.
You cannot have any kind of relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
You cannot listen to any kind of music, unless it is produced by the Mormon church.
You cannot go swimming.
You cannot have in your posession, any type of firearms.
You are only allowed to see G rated movies.
That's sort of a Readers Digest version of what it's like to be a Mormon missionary.
I'm all for moderation.
To answer your original question, God speaks to His children. Sometimes when I pray, He will tell me that He's heard my request and the matter is settled (in accordance with His will, mind you).
I could grow alot of vegetables with that much manure. P.U.[xx(]
Energy doesn't just power light bulbs bro!
I guess Einstein put it best when he said that there are two ways of looking at life, one is that nothing is a miracle, and the other that everything is.
So you would want a deal wherein you got anything you asked for, whether it was for the best, or not ?
My bet would be that you would be still blaming God if you got what you asked for, and it turned out to be a disaster.
No?[;)]
Not at all. But why the double-standard as applicable upon requirement to the situation?
Doug
quote:Originally posted by cartod
You say you "gave up everything else for 2 years". don't take this the wrong way but it sounds more like an addiction than a commitment. Moderation is something some folks just cannot grasp.
There is no such thing as moderation when you are a Mormon missionary.
You cannot watch TV.
You cannot listen to the radio.
You cannot read any published material. Unless it's published by the Mormon church.
You cannot have any kind of relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
You cannot listen to any kind of music, unless it is produced by the Mormon church.
You cannot go swimming.
You cannot have in your posession, any type of firearms.
You are only allowed to see G rated movies.
That's sort of a Readers Digest version of what it's like to be a Mormon missionary.
I'm all for moderation.
You ought to give the real God of Christianity a shot...IMO. You just might be shocked.
I sympathize with you on all levels, and I am not trying to be a smart-a, but how is it God's fault that your mother tried to commit suicide and your brother got a girl pregnant and dropped out of school. Could it possibly be their fault?
I fervently prayed for my family members, and NOTHING happened. I put my life on hold for 2 years, and I got no help from HIM when I needed it most. That's what leads me to believe that there is nothing but empty space 'out there.'
Lesson one: Gods timing is not our timing. The question is, we praise and trust Him in the good times, will we praise and trust Him in the bad?
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
Because He promised to hear.
But you will only come to Him on His terms, however.
And there will be only one prayer that He will hear, for now.
I think.
You make less sence than those damned Mormons. [8]
You mentioned you were on a two year "mission"?
Remember this;
religion is man's attempt to reach GOD,
Christianity is GOD's attempt to reach man.
Shut up
DROP DEAD
Would you care to explain the following exchange where you asked, challenged actually, "some pulpit pounding, Bible thumping, knee bending, Christian to prove, beyond a doubt" their beliefs to you.
When I brought to your attention that you know or should know you are demanding proof of something which can't be proved in the conventional secular sense, you came up with some absurd assertion that I thought if you didn't believe as I do you must be an ignorant savage.
I didn't mention what I believe. Only that I can't prove it to your satisfaction, much less what I believe is true.
You chose to ignore what I said and make an argumentative remark that probably made you feel better but exposed your intentions and ignorance.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
I just want some pulpit pounding, bible thumping, knee bending, CHRISTIAN to prove, beyond any doubt, their beliefs to me. There is the challenge. I have thrown down the gauntlet.
quote:Originally posted by JamesRK
That may not the stupidest thing I've read on these forums, but it has to be in the top two.
If it could be proven it wouldn't be a matter of "belief" and "faith". I probably can't prove to your satisfaction that I believe what I believe, much less what I believe is true.
If you are really that ignorant, my advice would be to stop bragging about it.
quote:Originally posted by k_townman
You would be surprised how many "good" church-going folks have said almost the very same thing to me. "If you don't believe in God and Christ, like I do, then you must be an ignorant savage."
Does it comfort you to know that you fit right in with the rest of the self-righteous christians? Thank you for your 'heart-felt' concern. [:p][:X][V]
There you go again. Associating me with ignorance. Now deny that you have responded at least twice, using the word ignorant or ignorance to define my character, simply because my views are different than yours.
It's easy to see how christian crusaders could slay thousands, because they were ignorant about christianity. Strange how christianity rhymes with insanity. [}:)][;)][:p]
JamesRK
There you go again. Associating me with ignorance. Now deny that you have responded at least twice, using the word ignorant or ignorance to define my character, simply because my views are different than yours.
It's easy to see how christian crusaders could slay thousands, because they were ignorant about christianity. Strange how christianity rhymes with insanity. [}:)][;)][:p]
I haven't said anything about your "character". I don't know what your character is and really don't care. Your "challenge" is ignorant and if you don't know that your are more ignorant than I gave you credit for.
You know or should know that matters of "belief" and "faith" are not provable in the conventional secular sense. Your challenge and your whole pocket full of gauntlets won't make it so. If you can't get that through your head, your are ignorant.
I knew you wouldn't address the matter of replying to a comment that I didn't make as though I had made it. I don't expect you will. When it's embarrassing or uncomfortable to answer, just change the subject. [;)]
I was going to stay out of this thread but decided to put in my 2 cents. I hope I don't offend you as that is surely not my intention. You sound like you are really seeking some information and I want to share a few things.
#1: God doesn't promise us that we will be successful in life, have great health, having a good job, having no problems in our lives. I would recommend that you re-read the book of Job to see what he went through.
#2: It's not a problem questioning God. Jesus did it.
#3: The Lord answers His children's prayers. It might be yes, might be no, might be later on. There are different thoughts about if He hears the prayer of a lost person, and this might be something that can be questioned by many.
#4: Please---go to www.josh.org. This is the website of Josh McDowell and he has written several books and also has lots of biblical information to offer. One of his books is entitled "More Than A Carpenter", another is "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" (I think that is the title, but you can see it at his website). Josh was an atheist and did research and became a Christian and his materials are widely used throughout the world.
I will be praying that you will get some answers that would help you deal with the problems that you have experienced. I have gone through some awful health issues and have an uncurable and untreatable muscle disease that will eventually take my life. I had to retire from my business, and now either in a hospital bed, a lift chair, or my power wheel chair. At first I asked the Lord "why me", but eventually came to "why not me?" I believe that I will soon be healed of this disease (Inclusion Body Myositis) and will be walking the streets of Heaven. I have been blessed with a wonderful wife of 39 years, 2 great kids who married wonderful Chritian mates, and 4 grandchildren. I am extremely blessed with what the Lord has given me.
Please, go to Josh's website and hopefully you will get some answers.
This is the way it always goes. Why can't we just leave religion alone? This is, after all, a GUN forum.