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sniper in israel

223believer223believer Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
edited March 2002 in General Discussion
I don't believe in glorifying war, but this is an interesting case of precision marksmanship. For those interested in military matters, it makes for interesting reading. I cut and pasted from an article in the Washington Post.____________________________________________RISHON LETZION, Israel, March 3 -- A lone Palestinian sniper armed with an antiquated rifle opened fire on an Israelimilitary checkpoint in the West Bank early today, killing 10 people, seven of them soldiers, and dealing a sharp blow toIsrael's most revered institution, its army.The shooting raised to 21 the number of Israelis killed in 24 hours as the violence here continued at a dizzying pace.Israelis had not even digested the news of a devastating suicide bombing in Jerusalem Saturday night, or buried the ninevictims, when bulletins were broadcast shortly after dawn announcing the latest bloods In retaliation for today's attack --one of the most lethal against an army position in many years -- Israeli forces struck back with tanks, helicoptergunships and F-16 warplanes, killing four Palestinian security officers.The Palestinian sniper attack today -- in addition to exacting its toll in Israeli lives -- shocked Israelis, who consider theirarmy not only the most powerful in the Middle East but also, soldier for soldier, the best in the world.The sniper positioned himself on a ridge about 75 yards above a remote Israeli army checkpoint next to an old Britishcolonial police station in the Valley of the Thieves, north of the West Bank town of Ramallah and near the Jewishsettlement of Ofra. The checkpoint, which sits near a patch of Palestinian-controlled land, is meant to monitor traffic inthe vicinity of three or four tiny Jewish settlements that have been implanted among Arab villages.The site is highly vulnerable. Terraced olive groves rise steeply on either side. The valley got its name from Ottoman-erahighwaymen who would track the movements of caravans from Damascus to Jerusalem along the road, and swoopdown on them.In the attack today, the Palestinian gunman was armed with a rifle described by army officials as a carbine, a single-shotor semiautomatic weapon equipped with a telescopic sight, which he used to pick off the seven soldiers and three Jewishsettlers one by one. In addition to the dead, six Israelis were injured, several critically.Israeli officials said the soldiers at the checkpoint, most reservists in their thirties, could not determine the direction fromwhich the shots were fired. After each soldier was shot, one of his comrades would dash out to help him, only to beshot himself. Even after reinforcements arrived, the sniper continued to shoot.After about 25 minutes he escaped, leaving behind his weapon and about 25 spent bullet casings."We were impressed by the calmness of the gunman," said Ronny Sagi, a Jewish settler from the Ofra settlement whowitnessed the shooting.
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  • badboybobbadboybob Member Posts: 1,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's time to cut the Israilies loose and let them wipe out the crazy murdering scumbag palastinians. I'm not a racist but these crazed religious idiot palastinians will never stop killing.
    PC=BS
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  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Smite them with the edge of the sword and take no captives.We should do likewise in Afghanistan. Those Taliban and AlKaida released on parole will only turn around and bite us in the *.
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At some point Israel is going to have to roll into the West Bank and the Gaza strip and do it right. Start at one end and push all the way to the other end. It was one thing to admit defeat and pull out of Lebanon. That was like us pulling out of Vietnam. Lebanon was kind of a foreign country for them. The WB and GS is much more like their back yard. At some point they'll decide enough is enough because the Palestinian terrorist won't stop even if Israel goes back to the pre-1967 borders. Either way, it's long over due!
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  • ED PED P Member Posts: 190 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Every time I read posts about people bashing Palestine I think of my friend, who is married to a Palestinian woman, and the first time she came back over the border from showing her newborn baby to her mother, the baby was cavity searched while it was screaming, and she had all the toys and clothes her mother gave her thrown in the trash right in front of her. No good guys over there, I think most US citizens either believe the slanted media or take sides with whoever they know better.[This message has been edited by ED P (edited 03-06-2002).]
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  • GreenLanternGreenLantern Member Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm biased. And I'm not afraid to admit it!
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's long past time to cut the Israelis loose all right but you have the wrong group to be calling religious fanitics. Zionist terrorists were killing Palistinians & British before Arafat was even a gleam in his father's eye. How can anyone possibly justify these provocative settlements in the middle of the Arab villages that were established on land taken in the 1967 war?
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have someone I consider a friend over there, active in the Civilian guard. So maybe you're right and I'm biased. But I ask, ED P, when was it last that an Israeli shot up a school bus or exploded himself in a crowded restaurant? I'd think we'd here something from somewhere if Israeli's were doing this. Yasir is a token, There was much celebration in Palestine on Sept. 11th, much, much more than what made the news.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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  • jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's a link to the IDF http://www.idf.il/english/news/main.stm
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  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Give the sniper credit. He hung in there alone against the Israeli Army and kicked some butt. I'm surprised the Israeli Army guys fell for the trick of attempting to rescue their companions from his fire. Maybe they were just reserves or militia. Beach
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  • guns-n-painthorsesguns-n-painthorses Member Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think about 5 nuclear bombs on both sides of the border would do the trick. Then no one could live there!
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  • wipalawipala Member Posts: 11,067
    edited November -1
    Back off let the best man (survivor) win. There are zealots on bot sides The Palastinians who do most of the screaming about there homeland weren't even born when Israel was formed. And the Israelis havr fed off the worlds collective guilt about the holucost long enough. Let Them Kill Each Other Off and then we go in plant some trees and flowers and have a new Holy Land theme park (Kind of like EuroDisney but with Crusifictions and killing of the firstborn)
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    5DB: You must be deaf or just don't listen. They don't need suicide bombers they have the planes, tanks & helicopters we bought them. There is hardly a day goes by that you don't hear of more children, women & policemen being killed. Five small children were murdered just a day or two ago. A Jewish terrorist bomb was just exploded in a school & every day they attack Palestinian police stations.
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  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Didn't they call that a "honeypot" or something?
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gruntled, you're right.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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  • travelortravelor Member Posts: 442 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think we should stop handing out weapons to any of "them" also...let them fight it out on their own....If we would stop suporting the horrific need for petrolium...we wouldn't need to be in the middle of any of this crap...all of the funds spent on the opperations of the last decade alone in that part of the world would have gone a long way in developing alternative energy sources..and auto mobile engine systems...of coarse the petrolium companies would tend to disagree....I am all for anti terrorist activities in retaliation for their abominations...that's something different...but it would be nice to get all of the facts streight before mixing up agendas...
    keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Israel is under the microscope of the rest of the world in ways that the Palestinians never will have to deal with.Israel is suicide bombed, terrorized, violated, and hung out to dry, and when they retaliate, Hosni-f**king-Mubarak and the rest of the Arab-loving UN members stand on their chairs and shout foul.Palestine has never made any attempt whatsoever to fight with anything less than tooth-and-nail suckerpunch attacks with every single pound of C4 and nails they can find.They're not upset by that. They're proud to admit that!So why is Israel not allowed to do the same?To me, it all comes back to the UN. They are a vulgar farce of what they were once supposed to be. They are run by a Liberal Arab, the security council includes several terrorist-sponsoring Arab nations, and they have allowed into membership totalitarian regimes who've supported slavery, terrorism, and oppression for years.They are a Liberal, Arab-loving, and revolting group of appeasement whores.
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  • 11echo11echo Member Posts: 1,007 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    INTERESTING subject... I think the answer is somewhere in the middle (where neither side wants to go) The only way this will end if the "Israelis are cut loose" is if they kill ALL Palestinians or visa-versa. OR ...if they LEARN to live together. YEAH... so far they haven't done very well ...for the last 2000 years. SO... those who don't learn from history, are DOOMED to replete it! A CLASSIC example here! ...my 2 cents. ...Mark
    "FEAR the Goverment, that fears your ARMS"
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  • 223believer223believer Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    At first blush, I side with the Israelis, because of all the horrific suicide bombings and terrorist attacks. Why should any nation have to deal with such things? Then I think back to the Palestinians getting kicked off their land so someone else could live there. Imagine how Texans would behave if somebody came in and told them to move to Arkansas because somebody else needed their space. What I think of that, I side with the Palestinians. Who wouldn't fight and fight hard for their land?What you've got to realize is BOTH sides think they can out last the other. BOTH sides think they can stay with this longer than the other, that the other side will bleed to much and finally give up. And you know what? That's a receipe for disaster. The Israelis and Palestinians are going to fight until they're down to one last man/woman/or child on each side, and then those two will fight to the death and you'll have your winner.
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    But why are we involved? We don't have a dog in this fight. The oil argument dosn't hold up because we don't get any oil from Israel & this whole mess is what caused the formation of OPEC in the first place. Remember .25/gal gas before the Arabs retaliated for our rearming Israel in the middle of the 1973 war? Think of the cost of the Third World Debt problem that followed or the Savings & Loan & bank bailouts. The total cost of our helping Israel in that one war is probably over one trillion (with a T)dollars. Not to mention the hatred that EARNED us.Finally "REMEMBER THE U.S.S. LIBERTY".[This message has been edited by gruntled (edited 03-07-2002).]
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  • FitzFitz Member Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The US gives $6.5 billion a year to Israel and for what? The oil argument is a crock. What about the intelligence argument? The US is filled with their agents as well. http://www.antiwar.com/rep/lemonde1.html http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ Face it, as Americans it's not our problem. We have no business being involved at all. When are Americans going to wake up and realize that we are being lied to, coerced into this quagmire when we have NO vested national interest, supporting a nation that has no Constitution and allying ourselves with a country that has one of the worst human rights records today.Why is it that discussing these things gets you labelled an anti-Semite? The US government never sent a dime to Ireland before their independence and Irish-Americans were a lot more than 3%. But wouldn't there have been a fierce discussion if we had?I for one would like to see an end to all financial support for Israel and the termination and publication of all dual citizenships with the US. It's time for every dual national to choose.Fitz
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    With all due respect Fitz, I think it goes a little deeper. And for the record, I'm not picking on you here.Even though the US doesnt have a dog in this fight, most of the US's citizens do have a personal dog in this fight.To wit: Jewish people, Arab people, and people who have a grudge against Jews or Arabs regardless of their nationality or religion.A lot of people in this country support Palestine because they buy the downtrodden and occupied victims excuse. And since America has a lot of really stupid and gullible people living in it, this idea is very prevalent.And, to be painfully honest, I know that there are a lot of people in this country support the Palestinians because, as I once heard a man say, "I hate the * more than I hate the Ragheads."It's pretty damn irresponsible to be making judgments on huge, age-old issues based on your own personal anti-Semitic issues, dont you think?Yeah, I know they control all the banks and secretly run the goverment and they're the real reason why you make $5.45 an hour digging ditches. I'm sure the Skinheads would love to hear about it.I'm a Catholic with no unusually large love for the Jewish faith. But I've got to say, I cant in good conscience abandon a God-fearing country to the will of a group of unwashed, blood-lusting savages.
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  • chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you believe that the Israelis are a nation of innocents being victimized by terrorist Arabs you're sadly mistaken. Israel has government sponsored death squads that drive around gunning down civilians for the crime of being Palestinian. They've admitted it openly and are very proud of the fact that they are taking out "terrorists" before they have a chance to strike against Israel. Then, when the Palestinians strike back the Israelis cry fowl and conveniently "forget" about the civilian casualties they themselves inflicted. If you don't believe me, check out BBC news sometime. They have the courage to air all of Iraels' dirty laudry that the US press won't; one of the benifits of not having such an extensive financial relationship with that nation.The Israel government has brought all of their problems on themselves and we should cut off all aid to both sides and let them duke it out.Point of note: Israel has a civilian militia, thus making what in the US would be considered civilian targets legitimate military targets over there. Every nation has the right to fight for independence from an oppressive military occupation. We have no business supporting either of these nations as neither provides any benefit to us. We have our own problems to deal with without shoveling money to a nation that has nothing but distain for us in spite of their diplomatic niceties.
    New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullezeye:Semite n. Also Shemite 1. One of a people of Caucasian stock comprising chiefly Jews and Arabs but in ancient times also including Babylonians, Assyrians, Phoenicians, and others of the eastern Mediterranean area. 2. One of the people decended from Shem.From: American Heritage Dictionary.So it would be just as correct to decribe anyone who criticized the Palestinians as being Anti-Semitic. Why not leave out the insults & discuss the issues?
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  • 223believer223believer Member Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Israel is an ally and a close one; you can't discuss this issue and leave it out. Damn few people over there like us but Israel does.
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    You show me one concrete piece of evidence that proves any of those allegations, chappsyny.You cant. There is no proof. It's just predjudicial garbage allegations that sound like they came right out of the mouth of Ayatollah Khomeni or Saddam Hussein.The Israelis started their policy of targetted assassinations after they realized that, with the Palestinian tactics of sending brainwashed grunts in as suicide soldiers, they would never be able to neutralize any of the terrorist leaders.They were like us: no firing until fired upon.Now they've woken up and realized that you cant win the war without killing the bad guys that count. Not the suicide grunts.You destroy the factory the death machines came from, smash it into the ground and light the rubble afire, THEN you will win the war.Terrorists fight without compunction or mercy. Israel is starting to now, too.Do you think stopping any or all of the hijackers on Sept. 11 would have stopped the continuing assault on our country? That's ridiculous.Bottom Line: You cant build a strong house on shaky, uneven ground. It'll just keep falling down, and the ground will stay shaky and uneven.Plow the ground, level the ground, and put up concrete to cover the ground. Then you can build your house.
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gruntled, I quote you "Why not leave out the insults & discuss the issues?" good advice don't you think? Now that I've got my hearing back and more to the point, I know that Israelis use Tanks and F-16's. From what I know, see and hear, it is always in retaliation to being attacked. And do you propose that if the Palestinians HAD Tanks or F-16's they would not use them against Israeli? There is a value to have Israel as a ally. (Please understand, I am not a big fan of Sharron's(sp) he likes the spotlight too much, but do agree with his aggressiveness.) Again, I did not hear anything about Israelis celebrating Sept. 11th, like was reported about the Palestinians. I ask, What more do you need to see the difference in friend and foe? Evil ATF, your right too. I hope you found some humor in that.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    We have no alliance with Israel (Name it if you can) and with friends like this who needs any enemies? REMBER THE LIBERTY!It's pointless to try to determine which attacks are first and which are second as each side claims their attacks are reprisialsfor the others. It IS easy to determine who started this latest round of violance though.Just when it looked like there might be a peace breakthrough Aerial Sharon staged a provacative demonstration at the Dome of the Rock that scuttled the peace process & set of this latest round of violence. (Note: This was before he became Prime Minister). This was NO accident. He & the other Zionist fanatics are dead set against peace. Not only do they oppose giving up ANY land they now hold but they also have a dream of a greater Israel with room for all the Jews of the world with enough room for future generations. They hope to continue the conflict for as long as necessary to achive this goal.
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    quote:Gruntled:"He & the other Zionist fanatics are dead set against peace. Not only do they oppose giving up ANY land they now hold but they also have a dream of a greater Israel with room for all the Jews of the world with enough room for future generations."No, you're not a paranoid Jew-hater at all...
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well at least I'm not anti-Semetic. If you have run out of reason and all you have left are insults then I guess this discussion is over. When you say you can't see & I say you must be blind that hardly compares to such pejoratives as Anti-Semite or Jew-Hater.
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  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I havent run out of arguments.I've only got one argument to begin with.That statement you made about Israel having a "dream of a greater Israel with room for all the Jews of the world with enough room for future generations" was bizarre, and made you sound like you've got a serious axe to grind.But so as not to insult you with terms like anti-Semitic, I'll just say this: Based on that last statement I read, it sounds to me like you've got an intense and barely containable paranoid fear of Jews conquering the world and oppressing you.
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gruntled, Okay so maybe I took some liberties and used the word "ally" when there might not be a formal alliance. Be that as it may, If not the Israelis, whom in that area would you like as a friend to the USA? Also, like I said I am not a fan of Sharons' I read his book. I prefer the quiet giants as opposed to the chest thumpers. Please share more about the Liberty.
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    dano, I thought you were dead.
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    well I'll quit repeatin' it then.
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  • jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullzeye, I hate to agree with you but some here are spouting the same old doublespeak. Israel has offered to give back all the land they took several times if the arabs would just leave them alone and acknowledge their right to exsist. Every time the arabs said no. The plo was offered the same deal, land for peace. No again. They have said a lot of times, they don't want peace with Israel, they want Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth. Well it's not gonna happen. They have kicked the butts of the arab world three times. 43 million against 600 thousand. People who are pro-arab are generally anti-christian and anti-american. They don't bother to get their facts straight, or even come up with good lies, it's just the same old stuff. Kinda like the anti-gun people.
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Jeenyes: Then why haven't the Israelis jumped on the Saudi plan?5db: Why do we need allies? If it were not for Israel we wouldn't have any problems in the area. Besides, name me a single benefitwe have recieved from this "alliance".Bullzeye: I'm growing tired of playing history teacher, you need to do some research on your own. The term "Greater Israel" refers to the area encompassed by ancient Israel & claimed by the more fanaticZionists. (For one simple example they demand that the Dome of the Rock be torn down & the area be given to them.)
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  • jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Because not all of the arab nations wanted it, syria just a few days ago said they might join. But you just don't understand, they don't want peace, they want Israel destoryed.
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  • jeenyesjeenyes Member Posts: 330 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Because not all of the arab nations wanted it, syria just a few days ago said they might join. But you just don't understand, they don't want peace, they want Israel destoryed.
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gruntled, "If it were not for Israel we wouldn't have any problems in the area." Hmmmm, let me ponder that.Also, if you want me to "REMBER THE LIBERTY!" I'm going to have to know about it first to remember it. Do you remember the Liberty? If so what about it?
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  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.ussliberty.org/
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  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So the un-disputed truth about the USS Liberty is in 1967 Israel attacked this US ship killing 34, wounding 172 Sailors. The how's and whys are disputed and though the loss of life is regrettable, I would suggest the US has done as bad or worse with friendly fire. The US has misidentified targets, or has made that claim after the fact as well. But 1967? wow, we don't have to look that far back to find where the Israelis supported us do we? Can the same be said of the Palestinians?
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