So I thought about the Army....

Bullzeye

or the Marines, for that matter.I know we've got quite a few ex-military gents on here, so if anyone's got any advice I'd appreciate it.My Skills:I'm an excellent shot with the scoped Remington 700 .308 (out to 500 yds.) I am also a good shot with the SKS (out to 200 yds.) I am well aquainted with the general mechanics and operation of nearly every modern firearm. (No embellishment there. I've been studying this stuff for a while). I've been interested in military arms for a long time, and have a very extensive knowledge of military small arms, both foreign and domestic, as well as most types of military ammunition. I also have a good concept of optimal practical application situations for individual weapons and ammo types.I have an IQ in the 96th percentile and a combined SAT score of at least 1250 (I'm retaking it in a month).I took the ASVAB a month and a half ago but have not recieved my results yet. I expect they will be good.I'm interested in general infantry weapons repair/maintenence (armorer, maybe?). I am interested in perhaps going to sniper school.Anyone got any clever ideas? I dont want to talk to a recruiter yet until I've got a good idea about what I want to do. I dont want to get caught off-guard and end up with an MOS I dont want.

turbo

Find out what you want to do the rest of your life, your interests, your other skills, ask your self is this what I want do for a living?; besides shooting. Then consider the benefits each of the services are offering, their recriuts these days.Gather all this information, scrutinize it and make a decision.Remember if you don't decide to make the service your career, get some good training that will help you get a good job when you make that transition back into civilian life.If you are qualified for officer candidate school, go for it. Get your college behind you, get a commission in any of the services, serve your time. Whatever you do don't just talk about it, Move soldier!

v35

1. If you can go to OCS dont turn it down.2. There used to be an Army unit called OTID or Ordnance Technical Intellegence: into all kinds of enemy weaponry.3. Talk to recruiters and see what they can PROMISE you.

idsman75

This quarter (Jan - Mar) and this quarter only, the Army can write a guaranteed Special Forces Selection Course in your contract. That came from my Commander on Friday. You need some college to go OCS. You can take a shot at WOFT (Warrant Officer Flight Training) if you meet the criteria and have a high school diploma. That takes a few months though because you need a flight physical, a WOFT packet and you need to be selected by a WOFT board that ony meets a few times a year. Jump on it now if you want it. The Military Intelligence Linguist MOS carries the highest cash enlistment bonus at this time. The GI Bill just went up to $28,800.Check out all of the services' web sites. The Army's is www.goarmy.com You can find job descriptions for all 212 MOS's there.idsman75@peoplepc.com[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-13-2002).]

beachmaster73

Bullzeye.....Enter a CMP leg match. That will tell you where you really stand in your shooting. If you are good send the results of a sanctioned CMP match to your Army recruiter. One of my young cadets who earned a leg medal and 6 points toward distinquished was offered guaranteed assignment to the AMU. Now remember not everyone at the AMU gets to go to the Olympics, but you do work and shoot firearms everyday. If you are one of the very best at AMU you become what the Army calls an "Olympic class" athlete(or a similar term) your sole job is to compete and get better and better and thus represent the Army at the highest level of competition. If you don't make that level you can become what amounts to a professional coach as you go from base to base assisting with marksmanship instruction for regular soldiers. Finally if you are mechanically inclined and not necessarily in the top rank of Army shooters you can become a match armourer and learn to take weapons to their highest level of accuracy. If you do have a 1250 on the SAT you qualify for an Army ROTC scholarship. That's kind of low for a Navy or Air Force one but the Army scholarships are really good because if your school's tuition is fairly low they will also pick up a big share of your room and board(the Navy and Air Force don't do that to my knowledge). Finally if you do choose the ROTC route, during the summer before your first year of college, go out and shoot in a couple of CMP matches. Then when you get to school and join the ROTC you can apply to the ODCMP for a really cool clean $1000 a year scholarship with no strings, other than staying in the ROTC, attached. That's an extra $4000 over four years and you can use that money for anything.....like a new Bushmaster CMP match Rifle or a whole lot of gas for your car...your choice. About six or seven of my cadets have already availed themselves of that scholarship. In any case with the scores you mentioned on the SAT you should cut in the high 60's or low 70's on the ASVAB. That should qualify you for just about any enlisted specialty. You cut those scores needed for a CMP leg medal and you are a shoe-in for an assignment to the AMU. All the best, Beach.

Bullzeye

Scweet.Now where can I find out more information on CMP matches? Like where they are held and what I've got to do to sign up.

will270win

As a former Marine recruiter, all I can say is do what you want and be sure you can use what you get.A scoped Remington? Every Marine qualifies at 500yds with the M-16, no scope.

---

Eat healthy, exercise, avoid smoking........Die anyway. will270win@aol.com ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

UnclePat

Get some college. Do the ROTC thing. And then get a Commission. No need to start as a grunt.

idsman75

The best officers, in my experience, were those that did a couple years on the enlisted side first. If your goal is to be an officer, take a look at a 2-year enlistment with the Army and then go green-to-gold. Your Commander will walk you through the process of the Green-To-Gold commissioning program. Pursuing a commission is a big step. You are still young enough to do what it takes to determine if that is indeed what you want. It's a bit late in the game to apply for an ROTC scholarship but you can take the ROTC classes in college. What if you go through college and decide during your senior year that you don't want to be an Army officer anymore? You got some great training and experience but you could have been focusing your energies on something else. If you are on ROTC scholarship, you now have to pay it back if you change your mind. If you do 2 years on the enlisted side first you will not only have a better idea of whether or not that is actually what you want to do in life but you will be more equipped to lead those that are enlisted. GI's respect officers a little more who have served a bit of time getting the job done before they were given a position to tell others how to do it. After all is said and done, you will have 2 years of honorable military service on your record and will have a sizeable amount of money that you can use towards your college education. The GI BILL/Army College Fund benefits are not as substantial with a 2-year enlistment as they are for a 3 or 4-year enlistment but it's still a big pile of cash.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-13-2002).][This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-13-2002).]

beachmaster73

Go to www.odcmp.com, find a local CMP club in your area. Find out at the club when the high power league matches start. Ask if you can participate in the matches. Most CMP club have a couple of beat up old M1's that shooters can shoot at no cost except ammo. No they are not match level weapons but if you hang around long enough one of the better shooters will probably let you shoot his extra rifle. I know I have 3 full match M1's, 2 Match AR's, and now a match M1A. My cadets shoot the AR's exclusively and my top shooter shoots my best M1. Haven't figured out what to do with the M1A yet. If all else fails we are having a junior high power match at my club on 24 February. Just for juniors and four of the club's best shooters are bringing their match AR's and even space guns out for the kids to shoot. You are welcome to drive a few hundred miles to participate. Beach

.250Savage

Call your local ranges to see which is affiliated with the CMP. The website is here: http://www.odcmp.com/

.250Savage

Beat me to it, Beach.

Varmintmist

Why go half way? http://www.usmc.mil/

woodsrunner

Bullzeye, if you are near syracuse, the Camillus club was CMP affiliated last time I was there. If not I'm sure there is a club near you that is.WOODS

beachmaster73

Varmint mist.....X-Ring!!!! Very very subtle, I like it. Beach

Bullzeye

First of all, thank you everyone for your advice.Beachmaster:Thank you very much for the offer and the suggestions. Where exactly is your club? I'd give my right arm for a match grade Bushmaster AR-15 or a match grade M1A Garand. However, unless I win the lottery sometime soon, I just dont have $1000-$1400 and wont for some time.I found a couple of clubs in my general area that have the CMP program. I'm assuming I'll have to be a member to participate, so I'd better follow up on it.

Old Soldier

JarHeads = sailors in fatigues!GO ARMY!

idsman75

Wisecracks about other services are probably not the responsible thing to make in front of a young man making such a big decision in life so I will refrain.Bullzeye--Check them all out. Decide for yourself. Email me at idsman75@peoplepc.com for my real name and work number. You can call me collect there anytime you have questions.

rogue_rob

Well, as a member of the army, and a person that is in the job field that you are interested in, allow me to answer a question or 2 for youIf you took the asvab in high school, the results arent posted right away. if you took it for a recruiter, they should have the results VERY quick.You should be able to qualify for the MOS 45B (small arms repairer) with no problem with the SAT score you stated. Just remember one thing though; you will not be doing any "tweaking" to the military weapons, you will only be allowed to fix or repair them by changing parts out. Feel free to contact me by email, I have been in the army for 13 years now and will be in until I retire in 6 and a half years.My email is r_cantor@msn.com

idsman75

rogue_rob -- you beat me to the punch. I didn't know that MOS existed when I enlisted or I would have tried for it. Then again, how interesting is "replacing parts" all day long on the same guns over and over for an entire enlistment contract?Your ASVAB results are not shipped to the recruiting office immediately after taking it. However, your recruiter can do a Test Pull through the Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) and get the results before your school does.Also, it is unlikely that a small arms repairer would be able to secure a training slot at sniper school.Side Note: The Army can get you Airborne/Ranger or a selection course slot for Special Forces guaranteed in a contract (provided you qualify and a position is available). The SF selection course slot can only be guaranteed this quarter (Jan - Mar). The Marines can't guarantee Force Recon in a contract.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-13-2002).]

RUGERNUT3

one word.....MARINES..and stay for the long haul....hey, you gotta be/work somewhere.....

---

"ANY" EXCUSE IS A GOOD REASON TO BUY "JUST 1 MORE".& VICIE-VERSIE!

Varmintmist

idsman,I wasn't looking to blast your branch butARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS????You garentee a SF mos BEFORE the guy has qualified????? That either says less about the Army than I ever imagained or its recutier bait. If the guy is a sick bay commando, or his PFT (phys fit test) scores suck he wont be SF (I hope) no matter what you write there at the office.Was it my imagination, or a few posts ago, you and another recrutier were giggling about feeding fat boys ex-lax to make the weight? They get the SF MOS to? Or you just get your quota?Sorry if I sound * but this kind of crap is for the birds. You guys are gonna fill your quotas and saddle the WORKING grunts and Zeros with extra problems.been there, done that, got the 214

Miss. Creant

Varmintmist, Idsman said Special Forces Selection Course. That is the very hard one you have to complete before being selecteed for special forces training. I know a couple guys who took it. One of them got through it.It is like basic training X 20. It is by no means a garantee into special forces only a chane to try out.

beachmaster73

Bullzeye....My club is Monroe Rifle and Pistol Club in Monroe Michigan...just north of Toledo and 41 miles from Camp Perry(can't get much better than that). However I'm certain that there are any number of matches in your own state of New York. It ususally doesn't cost much for a junior to affiliate with a club. My club chjarges juniors nothing and they get their ammo free. There might be some bad CMP clubs out there but I can't imagine where. A very good friend of mine who is a pistol President's 100 kind of guy lives in Pennsylvania near New York. I'll try and call him to see if there are any matches near to you. Actually he drove out here to give a pistol class to my kids so I know he's proactive about youth shooting. A word of advice concerning your military options....no recruiter is going to tell you that another branch of the service is better for you than his. If they didn't feel pride and that their own service was better than all the rest they wouldn't be recruiters. Listen to all of the recruiters and then listen to a few ex military types that your family knows. Put it all together and you'll get a feel where you should be going. Also don't hesitate to go officer first. Your SAT scores support it and you get your schooling up front before you start adding responsibilities to your life. Be advised that many many many of our greatest military leaders came right out of the academies ROTC's and various OCS's without any prior enlisted service. It has been my experience that many officers commissioned from the enlisted ranks are no better or no worse than an officer who has received his initial training during college prior to commissioning. It doesn't take an enlisted man long to determine whether an officer has sand or he doesn't. And that officer doesn't get his sand from necessarily having been an enlisted man prior to commissioning. My advice bullzeye is to get as much as you possibly can from the military up front. That means a college degree first and then any training you can get afterwards, Yes you will have a period of obligatory service but what the hell you're being paid for it anyway. And most importantly you are receiving leadership and professional training while you pay back the service of your choice for that training. If you havbe any additional questions send me an e-mail beachmaster73@yahoo.com. Take time and a lot of thought in making your choice. Beach

competentone

My 2-cents:If the "financial need" to join the military inorder to help you get a college degree does not exist, then DON'T join!Go out, get a 4-year degree first, then if you decide you want to "take orders" from others who are "not as bright" as you are, by all means join.I have nothing against serving one's country--a very admirable undertaking; I do object to the "bureaucraticmindedness" which permeates through the military culture--it can attract some really annoying people, whom you won't enjoy serving with. (Of course, you find "annoying people" anywhere you go in life!)

idsman75

Varmintmist--I only juiced one guy because he said he wanted it. I told him I'd send him to MEPS later if he didn't think he would make his body fat. He wanted it bad so I gave it to him. I ALREADY made my "quota" that month. I saw him 2 weeks ago. He's 30 pounds lighter and can still bench 300 pounds. I don't know many that would want to mess with him. I contacted him because he indicated that he planned to join the military on the ASVAB. He told me he wanted to join before the question even came out of my mouth. I also ran with him every day for three weeks at 5 am and at 9:30pm so that he would be fit when he went to basic training. Did I have to do it? Hell no I didn't. Did I want to do it? Yes. He was a great guy and I felt that he would be an asset to our Armed Forces. He will also be the first person in his family to go to college and he will actually be able to afford it. By the way, that's SF SELECTION -- NOT THE Q-COURSE. However, it isn't any different than sending someone to basic training. When they arrive they inproccess through a reception unit. They don't get into a basic training class until they can do a minimum number of pushups. You more or less have "Basic Training" guaranteed in a contract. You don't get there if you can't pull your weight. Likewise, you can get the SF Selection phase in your contract but it doesn't mean you will make it there if you aren't physically fit. There's still an SF fitness test including a swim test.If I just sit back and wait for people to walk into my office to volunteer instead of taking a proactive stance, this recruiting station won't be putting people in the Army. This station covers more than 50% of the responsibility for the entire company. If this station fails, my company fails. Our numbers equates to what the Army needs to function on a day-to-day basis. For those of you that have served, do you know what a stop-loss is? Guess what--they have been instituted for several MOS's already and the list keeps growing.If I stop taking a proactive stance, will you be happy? It will probably mean that I will be relieved for cause and will no longer have any sort of military career ahead of me as a result. Worse, I could receive a less-than-Honorable discharge. Will you hire me starting at 37,000 a year if that happens? I think not.I will continue to keep my head high in spite of what they nay-sayers say. A ready force is dependent upon several factors which includes manpower. That ready force is a deterrent to those that wish to take your freedoms away. If Beach doesn't mind, I'd like to borrow a Navy Sea-Bee motto--"CAN DO!"For those that are interested, a stop-loss is instituted when critical Military Occupational Specialties fall below their needed strengths (in numbers). Essentially, nobody within those jobs can get out of the military or change MOS's until the stop-loss is lifted. That includes people that have passed their date of discharge. The current list includes (but is not limited to) several Warrant Officer flight positions, most Special Forces MOS's and MORTUARY AFFAIRS.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-14-2002).]

whiteclouder

competent:You just insulted a lot of people whether you meant to or not. Please go back and read what you wrote in your last post. I'll not comment any further.Clouder.. USAF Retired.

idsman75

Clouder--Exactly. NO matter where you go in life, you will "take orders" in one form or another. If you own your own business, you will be subservient to your investors. If you did it all on your own without investors, you'll be working for the bank that gave you the loan. If you didn't need the loan then you will be subservient to your customer base who will dictate what you do if you want to make a profit. You may say, "I'll quit if I don't like what I'm told to do." See Judge Dread's article about the homeless. How far away from homeless will you be if you keep quitting a job that you don't like. What kind of character-development is that?According to an Army Times survey, 75% of college students can't pass the ASVAB. Anyone can go to college -- dope smokers, child molesters, morons. Not just anyone can serve. Step up to the plate if you think you fit the bill.

andersk

I went to Navy OCS after university graduation in engineering. I was in the Nuclear Power Program ... was a great experience for me!

---

Ken

rogue_rob

well said idsman75, where are you recruiting now? I was in a little town called morristown , tn from 95-98. I didnt like it at all but hey, that's the breaks. I did it and moved on to bigger and better things.competantone? what kind of post is that? taking order from people that are not as smart as you are? come on now, that is pure ignorance. shoot me an email idsman75, we seem to have some of the same views.

competentone

"Clouder...USAF Retired"So were you serving under Comrade Klinton? Did you consider him a competent leader for our Armed Services?I don't know where you're seeing the "insult" in my comments. (No insult is intended.) I've never been in the military myself, but have spoken with plenty of others who have--not everyone has had a pleasant experience.Bullz, the short and long of it: if you have any significant interest in money, there's more opportunities for making it by staying in the private sector.

beachmaster73

Competentone...........Wow! So what you are saying is that you are coming from a position of complete ignorance. And you are presuming to give advice to someone from your position of ignorance and expect someone to listen to you. Ok, I heard you...you are an idiot!! So let's see if I got this straight..only if you have "financial need" should you join. I guess that eliminates any patriotic citizens who feel a need to serve their country and happen to be well off. Wow I guess George Patton one of America's wealthiest men must have had a "finacial need" to join the Army. I do wonder how he managed to bring all of his polo ponies out to Hawaii when he was transferred there. Must be his family is still paying for the ship he chartered. You presume to tell a young man who might have enough money to pay for a local college but maybe not enough to go to Harvard or Duke or Tulane or Stanford that he shouldn't take advantage of the greatened opportunity that ROTC provides him? "Working for people not as bright as you." Oh please you pompous *. Some of the greatest minds in America have served and serve in the Armed Forces. While I will admit that the Army has a slightly lower officer qualification point than the Air Force or Navy. It is still significantly higher than the college population as a whole. It is easier to get into such elite schools as Dartmouth, the University of Michigan, the University of Texas at Austin, UCLA, the University of Virginia and a host of others than it is to get an Air Force or Navy scholarship to those schools. While I worked at Newport, Rhode Island a large group of junior officers used to car pool to Harvard to pick up their Masters degrees. They thought the curriculum was a cakewalk and only continued their programs so that they would have a Harvard degree with which they could impress idiot civilians like you when they left the Navy. I have served with enlisted men who had Masters degrees, PHD's, and one even had a JD(talk about the ultimate collateral duty legal officer!!!) You must be really really bright though compared to all of us dummies in the military. And your final comment about the bureacratic mindset of the military really sums up your crass ignorance. From where did you get this fount of information since you didn't serve? Hollywood? Did you read a book about the military? Hello dummy... Any institution or company has rules and regulations to smooth out operations and ensure its mission accomplishment. The military is no worse and significantly better than most commercial institutions because we get to throw out our poor performers without any difficuly. Try that at Ford or GM or the UAW. From your own admission you apparently had neither the intelligence, ability, aptitude, or intestinal fortitude to make it in the military. I would appreciate it if you would sit on the sidelines when military men and women are discussing military issues. .Clouder...I appreciate your class and composure in not responding to competentone's remarks. Had you wanted, I think, you may very well have reduced this insignificant gnat on an E-1's butt to a urine stain on the carpet; but alas I did not have the self control you showed.Bullzeye, I tell my cadets to use the system to get whatever they can for themselves. Don't settle for what someone else says is best for you. You figure out what is best and go for it. Set your standards high and don't change them. You will end up with what you want. In many cases the military is a great way to start and civilian companies usually do like to have ex-military on their payroles. They like the discipline, work ethic and intelligence that ex-military types bring to the table.I apologise to all for this diatribe but I'm afraid competentone's presumptuous ignorance sent me there. I'm now going out to buy myself a can of prunes just in case it is me who is full of feces and I'll get a new pair of glasses in case I can't see the forest for the trees. Beach

idsman75

That's right Bullzeye, don't take 50K for college so you can pay for it on your own and decide whether or not you want to be an Army officer afterwards (*wink*). With regards to interest in money...how does qualifying for a low-interest low-money-down VA-guaranteed small business loan or home loan sound to you? It's a great way to kick it off in the private sector without having to put down a fortune and securing a lower interest rate because the VA is basically co-signing your loan with you.Please take the tone of my previous comments with a grain of salt. Bullzeye, talk to everyone you can. There are just as many winners that come out of an enlistment as there are winners that hold a commission. There are just as many losers as well and that is the same for all services. The Army and the Navy and the Marines and the Air Force won't make you a superhero no matter what anyone tells you. You make that decision. Don't let anyone tell you that you are putting your life on hold if you decide to serve for a few years. There are a few advantages that service can give you over someone that has not served when it comes to doing business in the private sector.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 01-14-2002).]

simonbs

Bullzeye,Idsman said, I paraphrase, there are winners and losers that come out of both enlisted and commissioned ranks.In other words, your experience in the military will be what YOU make of it. YOU make it good or YOU make it bad.I applaud your interest. Research thoroughly, and get what you want, get it in your contract.

whiteclouder

idsman:You spent more time on him that I was willing to waste. Thanks. There's a character in my first book, a sleazy banker, who's motto is "Your own * is protected best by risking someone else's". I found his alter-ego on this thread. Clouder..

whiteclouder

competent:By the way, send me your address and I'll send you your change.Clouder..[This message has been edited by whiteclouder (edited 01-14-2002).]

Rosie

Clouder, I was going to let him have It with both barrels but I will just agree with you. Lifes too short to swap words with stupid people. Bullseye, Be your own man and decide what you want to do and do It. Your best bet right now though is to get off the computer. Chase girls, chop town, Etc. In other words get a life. Most of the people on here are old and or have no life except here. You are too young for that.

competentone

Beach,Your diatribe demonstrates my point precisely; I rest my case.(Nunn, no need to delete the thread because of the insults directed at me; I'm mature and emotionally secure enough that such attacks--while vulgar and ridiculous--ultimately, only make me laugh. Such is not the case when others believe they have been "insulted"--though I must admit it's still a mystery to me how Beach and Clouder have come to such fantastic {and inaccurate} conclusions about my opinions on the military from the few comments I made....)

Varmintmist

Ids, thanks for the clarificationI have been on the other end of recrutiers who didnt give a *, got a little bent out of shape I guess, looks like you aint one of emthanks for doing the jobsincerly, VMOh, and Comp? What price the pride of doing what few can? Its worth more after you get out than $, because you can transform attitude to cash.I was in the Marines, I have been told that people who have somthing to prove are the ones who go to the Corps, so be it. I proved to ME that I can do ANYTHING, its not the phyisical that knocks you out, its all mental. I was a rotten student in HS, although my SATs and IQ tests showed otherwise. I needed to prove to ME that I could, I did. It wasn't a bowl of cherries either. I got stuck in a MOS that I couldn't get promoted, they tried for a Meritorius promo., but by the time the higher ups figured out the retention math I was accepted at Penn State.[This message has been edited by Varmintmist (edited 01-14-2002).]

beachmaster73

competentone...in what way does my diatribe make your point? Very curious on that one. You come from a position of ignorance and you rest your case based on your ignorance. I do think it best if you rest your case now because you have shown just how little you know about this subject area. I believe most of us will consider you the incompetent one in the future. Have a nice day and stay on the sidelines with the cheerleaders.Oh yes, don't look for nunn to rescue you on this one. Beach

rogue_rob

hehe,they should do background screening on folks before they allow them to make up a name for these boards.competentone? come on now..........