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What a Concealed Handgun License is not

Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited February 2004 in General Discussion
It still surprises me to hear some folks talk about getting a concealed handgun license. They speak about the license as if it were a hunting license...or would give them some special right to use a handgun against another human. Even when I originally took the CHL course there were several in the class that asked questions and made comments that indicated they totally misunderstood the purpose of the license.

I wish people could somehow get it through their skulls that a CHL only allows one to legally go about with a concealed handgun. Nothing more! It gives no more permission to use the handgun as before they had the license.

Even today, when I was at the coffee shop. There was a discussion about what if someone pulled a robbery while we were there. The owner of the place commented, "Rafter could shoot the SOB because he has a handgun license."

Aaarrrrrrg!

Rafter-S (the perplexed)
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Comments

  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would never get one. But that won't stop me from defending myself if I have to. If, God forbid, that I have to use a firearm in self defense, I'll do it and worry about the consequences later. I don't think that anyone who is not a felon should have to ask permission from a government to defend themselves. And I will go so far as to say that not all felons should have to ask permission either.

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
    largemarge.jpg
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  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    you want me to shoot him?

    "Right is Right, even is everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it"
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  • FlatheadFlathead Member Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree rafter, some folks think it is a license to kill. In Pa. you have to state for what reason you need the permit, then that reason is put on the card. Most people claim self defence myself included. So if would be robber would stick a gun in your face,, yes you could use the gun. That is the scenario I dread so much, I hope to never have to pull my gun.
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  • toolmaniamtoolmaniam Member Posts: 3,213
    edited November -1
    Some peoples ignorance never ceases to amaze. I think alot of it is people not being informed. If anybody ever seen a person who was shot lying in a pool of blood would hesitate before saying "blast em". I would'nt hesitate defending myself or family, but don't fantasize about doing it.

    A dead intruder cannot testify against you in a court of law!

    If they're still moving, put another round in them!



    P239n_Beauty.gif
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Quote: I would never get one. But that won't stop me from defending myself if I have to.

    Comments like that are what I am referring to. It implies that with a CHL one has the legal right to defend themselves, and without a license one does not.

    A person without a CHL has as much right to defend themselves as a person with a CHL. The CHL only allows the licensee to go about with the handgun legally, where the non-licensee would be in violation of the law when he carried.

    Aaarrrrrrrg!

    Rafter-S (and still perplexed)
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  • dcon12dcon12 Member Posts: 32,003 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Want me to shoot them?[:D]

    "Right is Right, even is everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it"
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your right Rafter, it does imply that you have to have a license to defend yourself, which is wrong. And in some states you have to wealthy and influential before you are issued said license. So not only must you have to have a license to legally defend yourself, but you can't be poor either!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
    largemarge.jpg
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  • WagionWagion Member Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well for one thing how do the people in the coffe shop know you carry if it is concealed they should not know and I don't agree with telling people you have a carry permit I will not lie and tell people I do not but never bring it up unless they ask me directly "do you have a concealed gun permit?" letting people kow you carry is asking for trouble

    If force ain't work'n... Your not use'n nough of it.
    I know the spelling is bad but guess what I DON'T CARE
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Wagion,

    I totally agree with you. When I lived in the big city (which was as close to a war-zone as one could get) I carried a handgun every day. And no one knew it nor did they know I had a CHL. None of their business.

    Now, I live in the boonies and, though I still have the CHL, haven't carried a handgun in 3 years. Don't need one out here because the varmits are all 4-legged.

    Also out here people are close--something town people have little understanding of. For example, in the coffee shop this morning, of the 11 people there, 6 were relatives...and the other 5 may as well be. Everybody knows everything about everybody in the country...well, just about.

    When I had my license address changed, the owner of the coffee shop's wife worked at the license office. No way you can keep many secrets about a license.

    I don't feel I have to defend or explain myself...or justify my actions to you or anyone else. Just thought you might want to know.

    Rafter-S
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  • mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
    edited November -1
    RAFTER I agree with the premise of your thread whole-heartedly.

    Actually, having a CCW causes you to be held to a higher standard of responsibility.

    Sort of the same mentality as people who think that because they have four wheel drive they can drive 70 on ice...


    oswald.jpg

    Mateomasfeo

    "I am what I am!" - Popeye
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  • SUBMARINERSUBMARINER Member Posts: 1,362 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I got a permit and i live in the boonies and i carry everywhere i go the only one i know that knows that im always packing is my barber and i rest assured knowing that while he cuts my flattop he is also packing a glock 21 in a concealement holster..i do not broadcast to everyone as i agree the fewer that know the better off you are

    SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,RUSTY WALLACE FAN AND AS EVERYONE SO OFTEN POINTS OUT PISS POOR TYPIST e-mail alisonandwalt@charter.net
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  • pickenuppickenup Member Posts: 22,844 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you carry, and you ever have to use it, license or no, chances are that you will still be arrested and charged. The ONLY thing a license does, is prevent them from filing an ADDITIONAL charge against you, for carrying concealed "without" a license. That is the ONLY reason I have one.


    The gene pool needs chlorine.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I do not need a license to know when to defend myself! That's a bunch of crap flying clay disk! I don't need anybody telling me when I can use a firearm to defend myself! I've shot firearms all my life and am just as well trained at shooting a target as anybody at normal self defense distances. Concealed licences are just another way for the government to limit our 2nd Amendment Right! They are by their very nature Un-Constitutional!!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And that cop should have identified himself before he fired. His own fault he got shot.

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not saying that formal training is bad, in fact it is good. But I am saying that I don't believe a law abiding citizen of the U.S.A. needs a permit to carry a concealed firearm in order to defend ones self if the need arises.

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    According to your story the CCW holder watched as a woman was attacked by an assailant. Pulled a gun and pointed it at the CCW holder, without identifing himself, the CCW holder shot the cop in self defense not knowing that it was a cop that was threating his life!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So, I guess if I see a fellow human being, attacked by a scumbag I should assume that the scumbag is a cop, and therefore flee the area and call the cops! The LEO should have identified himself as such when the law abiding CCW holder drew his firearm!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,742 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    bmbuzlr, why do I have a feeling we'll see you on the news some time soon?
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you read flying clay disks's post it clearly states that the law abiding CCW person came across a woman being attacked by a man with a gun. He did not know that it was a cop. He drew his gun, doing what any good human would do naturally. The cop did not identify himself as such and decided to just shoot at the law abiding CCW person. The law abiding CCW person in turn, returned fire, killing his assailant. The cop, with all his "professional training" should have made it known that he was a COP!!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,742 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If your reply was for me, that's not the only reason I said it. Carrying concealed without a permit is a crime whether you agree with it or not. If you want to make a stand on it, more power to you. However, you'll likely become an honorary guest of the government for a while.

    I do agree that a person has a right to defend themself, I also agree that a person has an obligation to follow the laws of the land. If you don't agree with them then help to try to change them.

    I'm not cutting ya down bmbuzlr but I just have a feeling you'll suffer for your hard-headedness (about this) at some point in your life. Seriously, more power to ya...
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And you can follow in line with all the other sheep!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,742 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I will, and I'll stay out of jail while doing it...

    There's a way to make changes to help our cause, and yours is not it. I guess you're followin' in James Dean's footsteps - you're a rebel without a cause and most likely will end up like him too.


    bmbuzlr, I'm really not tryin' to harp on you. I agree with making a stand, but there's many ways to do it, and that is likely the least productive of them all. If gun owners banded together we could overturn some of the stuff similar to the way prohibition was overturned. Even when it was overturned, it still didn't clear the names of the shine runners nor bring back those that died in shoot-outs with police (simply because they felt they were doing the right thing).

    That's all I'm gonna say about it. You won't convince me, I probably won't convince you either so there's no use...
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Like I said before. If I see a fellow human being, (small framed black female),being, who I percieve to be attacked by someone else, I should assume that the attacker is a cop an flee the area and call the police? What if the that person wasn't a cop and the, "small framed black female" was actually being attacked by someone who meant her harm, I would like to think that I did the right thing.

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bambihunterbambihunter Member Posts: 10,742 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not debating your USE of a deadly weapon, I'm saying you should do what it takes to be legal in CARRYING your weapon...

    If you don't think they won't haul you in and arrest you for a concealed weapon, just ask Timothy McVeigh!
    Fanatic collector of the 10mm auto.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not worried about that. Like some one else on this board has said, I can't recall who, "I'd rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six"

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    And as far as being legal to carry a concealed weapon, I will defend myself with the Bill Of Rights!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I could not do that! The police cannot be every where at every time to protect everyone! We The People have to be able to take care of ourselves! Apparently you (flying clay disk) think that only LEO's should be able to Bear Arms! Have you read the Bill of Rights lately?

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • mpolansmpolans Member Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    bambuzlr, I agree that it's a tough call, especially if you have a natural inclination to help people. IIRC, most places where they've codified self-defense provisions allow the use of a firearm to defend others as a legit defense. However, I haven't researched the law well enough to be able to say how it stacks up in the current situation (all though I guess there at least ONE court decision against it!)
    Until you've fully researched this (or had a lawyer do it for you), bad as it sounds you might want to stay out of altercations the details of which you are not completely aware of.
    On the otherhand, if you insist on shooting first, asking questions later (and you're in Texas), I've got a buddy who's going to be a great crim. law attorney as of around May 2005. [;)]
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't get me wrong. I'm not some vigilante. I just won't let myself, or anyone else get harmed by a criminal if I can help it. I have a great faith, that in the long run, no matter how bad things look now, that Humanity will prevail.

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yet the very things that can cause you to lose you Right to Bear Arms, today, are the very things that the Revolutionary War were faught for over 100's of years ago!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bmbuzlrbmbuzlr Member Posts: 667 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Concealed permits are for suckers!!

    "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." Thomas Jefferson to William Stephens Smith,1787.

    "They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    If God didn't want us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat.
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  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i beg to differ with the fellow that says being in the boonies doesnt require one to have a ccw. though the neighbors may be friendly, facts reveal that the biggest and most deadliest robberies are in the boonies, simply because, a perp can wait for you to leave and will know that you wont be home for hours. this way, he gets a big truck and helps himself to your whole house with time to spare. and if you did come home, shooting noise giving away their presents wouldnt deter them. theyd kill you and go about their business. so, the odds are, if you were to come home, youd probably stumble on to them IN your home. whattya gonna do, say excuse me? i need to get to my gun? my uncles driveway in georgia is 8 miles long. any truck coming out from the home would be stopped by him and questioned, if he came home early. and the gun may be the lifesaver.

    former air operations officer SEAL Delivery Vehicle Team 2. former navy skeet team, navy rifle/pistol team member. co-owner skeetmaster tubes inc.. owner/operator professional shooting instruction.
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I took my original CHL course I was fortunate to have a savy old cop teach part of the course. This guy had been "around the block" a hundred times. There were a couple of things he conveyed to the class about getting involved in situations where the handgun might be used:

    1. In situations where deadly force is a possibility, things are NEVER as they appear when you first get involved. As facts unfold later, the user of the handgun learns a lot more of the details...and often regrets ever pulling his handgun in the first place.

    2. When you decide to get involved in a situation where you pull your handgun, SOMEONE is very likely going to end up dead. And that someone may be you just as easily as the other guy. He made sure we understood that. He also wanted us to understand to never pull a handgun thinking the sight of it would control a situation. That we had better be ready to use it if we pulled it...because we may have to use it only because we pulled it.

    For what those points are worth.

    Like I said, I was fortunate to have that old cop teach part of the course.

    Rafter-S
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  • trstonetrstone Member Posts: 833 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds like carrying concealed is more of a liability than it's worth, to me. Unless you're 1000% sure of the situation, and are only defending yourself, it seems like even having a damned gun on your person is nothing but an invitation to disaster and prosecution by the oh-so-efficient police, so why bother?

    This makes me wonder: statistically, how likely is it you'd be harmed by simply complying with an armed robber as opposed to pulling a weapon and (more than likely) getting shot and/or prosecuted for using a weapon? What an interesting and potentially eye-opening study that would be! A cost-benefit analysis would, I think, be most revealing---lose your wallet or purse, as opposed to, say, shooting your assailant and spending a fortune in legal fees defending yourself from both the cops and the thug's relatives, because you KNOW the cops and the thug (or his family) will come after you in one form or another, even if the event takes place in your home. Hmmmm...
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  • gskyhawkgskyhawk Member Posts: 4,773
    edited November -1
    Rafter-S you wrote --

    Also out here people are close--something town people have little understanding
    of. For example, in the coffee shop this morning, of the 11 people there, 6 were
    relatives...and the other 5 may as well be. Everybody knows everything about
    everybody in the country...well, just about.
    please explain to me just what you would do IF some shotgun toteing dirtbag came into that coffee shop , planning on robbing everyone inside and willing to shoot if people did not comply fast enough?

    to those of you that say , stay out of it call the cops , question for you? you have your CCW , you are in that parking lot where that 11 year old girl in FL was taken from , you see the guy grab her , hes take her agaisnt her will , are you telling me you would just stand there and do nothing? you're going to stand there and call the cops while he take her away? once there're gone from the area the chance of the cops catching them in time are very small , are you going to stand by and let something like that happen ?
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  • bobskibobski Member Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    gskyhawk, based on what youve said, odds are the robber would be family! theyd probably tell him to go home.[:D]
    Retired Naval Aviation
    Former Member U.S. Navy Shooting Team
    Former NSSA All American
    Navy Distinguished Pistol Shot
    MO, CT, VA.
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  • mateomasfeomateomasfeo Member Posts: 27,143
    edited November -1
    DISK -

    Your story sounds like a story I've heard before...it was one of those BS urban myths...

    Not saying your story is BS, just wondering what the source is...



    oswald.jpg

    Mateomasfeo

    "I am what I am!" - Popeye
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  • trstonetrstone Member Posts: 833 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    After reading this thread, I'm now more than ever firmly of the opinion that, even if you do choose to carry concealed (with the proper licensing, of course, since you don't have the right to carry a weapon WITHOUT prior approval,) you must NEVER come to the "aid" of another person because of liability issues. I've said this before and been lambasted for it, but I think this proves my point. MYOB is the Golden Rule for people carrying guns, unless they're cops or military, because it's simply a different set of rules for them than it is for the rest of us. Shoot an intruder in your own home, and be prepared to be hauled down to Cop Central for it, no matter what, which is bad enough. Shoot a criminal trying to hold you up at gunpoint out in public somewhere---ditto, only more so. If said criminal is only threatening you with a knife or chain or club or other non-firearm---even worse for you, because the criminal didn't pose a threat which mandated the use of lethal force, and the police will say you damn well knew it. Shoot someone who is beating up on a third party, or merely threatening them with a weapon, and your goose is really cooked. So what is left, really? What options are open to you such that you don't end up being treated like the bad guy? This isn't an issue of "responsibility", so much as one of "liability"!
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  • gskyhawkgskyhawk Member Posts: 4,773
    edited November -1
    Disk: yes it makes sense, very informative, thank you
    bobski: too funny [:D]
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  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    My 2 cents - and no offence. I do agree with BM on the following points -
    1. Having gone through several "training courses" does not give you any better comprehension (hold on) when in an actual situation as described. It may give you a vast amount of knowledge about the use of your weapon, but no more common sense than what you walked in with.
    2. A law abiding person should not have to bow down to any goverment, and seek permission to carry a weapon. IF they choose to carry concealed for protection, they run a great risk - but as said many times "I would rather be judged by 12 - than buried by 6!!!" This may be a hard concept for those who follow the "letter of the law" no matter the freedoms they give away - These "laws" are not made up by a majority of the populace - They are carefully concieved by politicians and supported by other politicians, WITHOUT any input from the people - other than so called "experts" and "statistics". If you do not believe this - take a few courses in political science along with your firearms training.... "Shall Not Be Infringed" means nothing to politicians, But means everything to me... Again - my opinion - not seeking your approval or care to be preached at about the way I choose to live - I'm old enough to "think" I know what is right for me.
    3. The "officer" in the situation - being undercover - may have done better by identifiying himself , but he was also in a stressfull situation. We cannot judge - as WE WERE NOT THERE!!!! Given the sceen as you portray - Big guy "beating" small woman (I don't think Black or white needs to figure into the sceen) into some form of submission - when an officer is aware of bystanders he should know what the situation looks like to the casual observer and maybe at least yell "I'm a police officer" instead of shooting at an unidentified threat. There are alot of people on this board who will tell you the golden rule - Identify Before you Shoot. I cannot say the officer was right or wrong but again I WAS NOT THERE. I can say that this situation does not prove your point - Flying Disk - as it says nothing to the legality of ccw, only a confusing situation which should be judged some where else - Who's saying is it??? "No matter how thin a pancake - there is always 2 sides"

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
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