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so, i have until the 31st to vacate....

SpartacusSpartacus Member Posts: 14,415
edited April 2013 in General Discussion
sold my rural house/property and agreed to the buyers request not to run the forklift thru the pasture to get the two gun safes. asked me to wait until the spring when the ground was dry.
there is a room that was built onto the back of the house and i put the two safes in there ten yrs ago with a forklift.
the buyer re-sold the house last month and the new buyers gave me 30 days to remove the safes.
so far ive sent two different moving companies out to get the safes, and both times the owner would not give them access to the back of the property with anything more than a dolly.
so tonight they tell me I can come and empty the safes this week but i can't bring a fork lift or truck across the pasture.
so, on april 1st they get two gun safes for free.
basterds!!
when i emtpy the safes i'm gonna lock the combinations INSIDE. OOOPPS, my bad.


tom
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Comments

  • woodhogwoodhog Member Posts: 13,115 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    several outfits around here have lifts that move safes. They usually use them for ac/heat units but also safes
  • partisanpartisan Member Posts: 6,414
    edited November -1
    This sucks! I don't know any legal recourse you have, but I damn well know I'd lock the combos inside the safe. Tell them if they want them moved you'll be glad to assist![:(!][:(!][:(!]
  • barbwiredbarbwired Member Posts: 7,924 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Have the sheriff go with the movers, and take some plywood sheets.
    He's right they can't keep your stuff.
  • skicatskicat Member Posts: 14,431
    edited November -1
    Why should you take a financial hit and lose 2 safes? I guess I don't understand why they are being unruly.
  • pietro75pietro75 Member Posts: 7,048
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by barbwired
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Have the sheriff go with the movers, and take some plywood sheets.
    He's right they can't keep your stuff.




    Right on! On that, they can simply have a locksmith come out and open them up and reset the combo in about 30 minutes[V][:(!]


    I rented a really cool heavy duty safe dolly to move my big safe. it had a set of wheels that kicked out when you tilted it back that made it resemble a stroller.

    I hope you can find a way to get those safes!
  • JnRockwallJnRockwall Member Posts: 16,351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    sounds like you could file a lien on the house for property not rendered.

    OR

    Put a dead coyote in them...
  • SpartacusSpartacus Member Posts: 14,415
    edited November -1
    quote: and take some plywood sheets.


    after the first movers attempt, i got a guy who said he moves safes "all the time".
    I told him about the issue with the owner and suggested he bring planks or plywood.
    he arrived at the property at 3:00 saturday afternoon. figured he would buy the wood local.
    the homestore in town closes at 2:00 on saturdays. (this is a town of 1500 where there is no mail delivery on saturdays. whole damn town closes for the weekend!)
    so, he comes back w/o the goods and hands me a bill for $800!
    yeah he'll be seeing that money soon.


    tom
  • tjh1948tjh1948 Member Posts: 434
    edited November -1
    Bring your own locksmith & take all the locking mechanisms with you.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    Not tearing up the pasture is a fair concern but stealing your property is flat out unacceptable. I've heard of this being a crime with a name like "Unlawful Conversion", something like that. A lawyer would know best but if they create conditions where it's impossible for you to recover your property, that sure sounds like stealing to me.

    Ask the Sheriff to do a "Keep The Peace" as you recover your property.

    Show up able to cross the pasture without sinking in. The plywood sheets are a good idea, you may need multiples to take the weight. Possibly lumber beneath, depending on how big and heavy these safes and the fork lift are. Keep moving sheets from behind around to the front, it will be slow.
  • SpartacusSpartacus Member Posts: 14,415
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by barbwired
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Have the sheriff go with the movers, and take some plywood sheets.
    He's right they can't keep your stuff.


    I'll give the sheriff a call in the morning. he and his wife/kids were my patients when I had my clinic there. nice guy. he signed my M16 paperwork and asked if the dept could borrow it if needed.[:)]


    tom
  • barbwiredbarbwired Member Posts: 7,924 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spartacus
    quote:Originally posted by barbwired
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Have the sheriff go with the movers, and take some plywood sheets.
    He's right they can't keep your stuff.


    I'll give the sheriff a call in the morning. he and his wife/kids were my patients when I had my clinic there. nice guy. he signed my M16 paperwork and asked if the dept could borrow it if needed.[:)]


    tom
    My exwife mother thought she could keep my freezer and her husband was a Deputy Sheriff.......... WRONG!
  • LaidbackDanLaidbackDan Member Posts: 13,142 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:when i emtpy the safes i'm gonna lock the combinations INSIDE. OOOPPS, my bad.

    Though others have given more practical and level headed advice I do like your last resort plan and would enhance it by forgetting your dead fish of the World collection split between the two safes.

    Saltwater in one and freshwater in the other because a true collector would never mix the two.
  • ChrisInTempeChrisInTempe Member Posts: 15,562
    edited November -1
    Had a home purchase where we specified some appliances were part of the sale. All above board, out in the open, in our written offer. Apparently neither the sellers or their relator read it. They were three days late moving out (we specified a daily rent for that in the offer) and when they left they took the extra appliances we had paid them for.

    Our realtor calls their realtor who exploded into the phone screaming and cussing. Our realtor takes the call outside in the front yard, comes back in ten minutes and says the sellers realtor will pay us the three days rent and the value of the appliances from her commission. It was either that or we file a complaint against her license.

    We got the check and went shopping [:D]

    Sometimes it works out for the good guys, sometimes not.

    Good luck with your safes.
  • ruger41ruger41 Member Posts: 14,665 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You do have that agreement in writting don't you?? Why are they worried about a pasture? Grass grows back. I'd just back a pickup to the door and load the safe. Are there guns still in the safe?
  • JamesRKJamesRK Member Posts: 25,670 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't do anything that can't be undone until you know for sure you're about to get screwed. Locking the combination inside the safe for show is OK, but have a copy in your wallet in case you get the safes after you thought you wouldn't.

    I was on the other end of a similar situation a lot of years ago, but it was a piano and a freezer. All I wanted was to get rid of his stuff without tearing up my floor, but he was hard to get along with. I finally found a way around all his cow cookies. After he finally got his stuff he told me he was going to sue me. I told him there was no need to talk to me about it, he needed to talk to a lawyer. That was the end of it.
    The road to hell is paved with COMPROMISE.
  • guns-n-painthorsesguns-n-painthorses Member Posts: 6,462 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go rent a bobcat with tracks. They will lift and carry the weight and not tear up the grass or sink in. Have some law enforcement there with you.
  • SpartacusSpartacus Member Posts: 14,415
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by guns-n-painthorses
    Go rent a bobcat with tracks. They will lift and carry the weight and not tear up the grass or sink in. Have some law enforcement there with you.


    have one, he won't let me bring it into the yard.



    tom
  • kidthatsirishkidthatsirish Member Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This sounds like a sucky situation. I hope everything works out for you!
  • cnsaycnsay Member Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you find you can't get the safes out and decide to lock the combo's in the safe run a good bead of silicone caulking all the way around the door seal before you close it. If the caulking gets time to dry before a locksmith tries to open it it will be all but impossible to open. Only thing might make it easier is the fireseal if it has it, not sure the tensile strength of that stuff.
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by cnsay
    If you find you can't get the safes out and decide to lock the combo's in the safe run a good bead of silicone caulking all the way around the door seal before you close it. If the caulking gets time to dry before a locksmith tries to open it it will be all but impossible to open. Only thing might make it easier is the fireseal if it has it, not sure the tensile strength of that stuff.


    Or a sledge hammer to the dials...I'm vindictive like that.
  • shilowarshilowar Member Posts: 38,811 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sounds to me like they are being unreasonable with the intent to keeping those safes.


    Do you actually have guns/property in them right now?
  • Waco WaltzWaco Waltz Member Posts: 10,836 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'd tell em I will fork lift my property. What are they going to do sue you for messing up their grass?
  • evileye fleagalevileye fleagal Member Posts: 4,238 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    how about a boom truck an just lift them over the house.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,523 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here is the way I see it. You had an agreement with the buyer when you sold the home. That agreement is not yet final until you get your safe out in the spring. He sells the home. Now the new buyers want the safe out in 30 days. You are not in a pinch the seller is. He has to finalize the agreement with you to satisfy the new buyers. It is his responsiblity now to remove the safes for YOU to satisfy his new buyers at his cost. Any damage from the new buyers to your property is now on the seller and them. Sit tight and have an attorney notify the seller as such. He will be in contact with his buyers as soon as he gets the letter. The original agreement will stand in a court. You have until spring to remove the safes.
  • spasmcreekspasmcreek Member Posts: 37,717 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    that is why i never went into a service profession...to many scumbags whose sole excuse for breathing in life is to cause irritation to others....these swine are simply trying to get a freebie...i know who they voted for....get your property and hold them accountable for an inconvenience, your costs and any damages, and keep law enforcement at your side...what a crock of s--t
  • GanderGander Member Posts: 264 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    How heavy are the safe doors?
    Lead me not into temptation as I seem to find it often myself !
  • rob223rob223 Member Posts: 2,358 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm not sure I understand how they can want you to have them out by a certain date and then stand in your way of getting to them? I don't think the courts would like that if a lawsuit were to develop. What is the value of the safes? As that can make a difference too, as far as the law and courts would see it, if they won't allow reasonsiblity to access and remove them and it appears they are in error/violation of allowing reasonable access. I do think it is time to enlist the help of law enforcement, as they can't prevent you form acquiring your property, when you're making reasonable attempt to do so and it appears you have.
  • JunkballerJunkballer Member Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    1st buyers agreement overides the 2nd buyer. 2nd buyer actually bought the 1st agreement when he purchased the house. [;)]

    "Never do wrong to make a friend----or to keep one".....Robert E. Lee

  • nards444nards444 Member Posts: 3,994 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Have the sheriff go with the movers, and take some plywood sheets.


    problem is when you signed the agreement whatever was in there was law, so I dont know what recourse you could have. I have sold a few houses and ineveitbly ive had to leave something. But again I dont know what was in there. And if the agreement said you couldnt ruin the law in order to get the safes out, then you cant move the safes, sucks but all there is to it. But I would agree your first purchase offer would be the one that you are liable for. You are not liable for the second purchase unless you were involved and signed something.


    Locking the combos in the safe fine, if that tickles your D in at the end of the day. But to maliciously do damage is wrong just because its wrong, and you set yourself up legally for damage you willfully committed.
  • retroxler58retroxler58 Member Posts: 32,693 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Flying Clay Disk
    Sounds to me like the dude just doesn't want to let you get your safes no matter what option you propose. I agree with contacting the Sheriff.

    As for logistics, plywood mats aren't a bad idea, but you might also consider doing it at night/early morning after the ground freezes over. You won't leave any lasting marks.

    Besides, it's a pasture for cripes sakes...not a Masters green in Augusta!


    +10 On getting the Sheriff involved...
    And definitely agree that the frozen ground ought to help matters tremendously...

    Hope you get your safes Doc... [;)]
  • 11BravoCrunchie11BravoCrunchie Member Posts: 33,423 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    If it were me, I'd tell the current residents to stuff it and get my safes however I knew they needed to be retrieved.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,523 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When you left them in the home per agreement the seller takes full responsibility for your goods. If someone steals the safes the seller is responsible. Now the seller has sold the home. Seller is still responsible until you take them in to your possession.
  • asphalt cowboyasphalt cowboy Member Posts: 8,904 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Doc, what county are the safe located in? Kansas I presume?
    I can put my upcoming weekend ceiling project off for a day if a road trip is needed.
  • KEVD18KEVD18 Member Posts: 15,037
    edited November -1
    evidently im the only one who realizes that its been "spring" for a week.

    me thinks there should have been a more specific time frame established in the original contract.....
  • nards444nards444 Member Posts: 3,994 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    When you left them in the home per agreement the seller takes full responsibility for your goods. If someone steals the safes the seller is responsible. Now the seller has sold the home. Seller is still responsible until you take them in to your possession.


    not necessarily. If the agreement was to have them removed prior to closing then its the orginal sellers responsibility to move them prior to sale per the agreement made. Unless the agreement stated the items could be picked up within so many days after closing, then yes the original buyer or now the seller would have a obligation to secure that property.

    But from what it sounds like there is no verbage to pick up the property after closing, thus if the OP the original seller in this case leaves his property and closes the property would be deemed property of the new owner who the OP had a contract with and at that point could dispose of that property howevery they wanted. But left property could be a liability for the original seller if it was not supposed to be there and damaged property could also pose a liability to the original seller. But in most cases property that is left on premis after closing is usally disposed of by the buyer and seller no longer has a legal claim, i.e the final walk through form that is signed by the buyer and seller.

    Now unless the OP signed a document with the second buyers then whatever they want is mute point and the original purchase offer takes precedence. Legally and financially I dont know how somebody can buy a house and without closing already have a legal binding contract with somebody else, unless its oral or is a contingency, either way really doesnt have any weight in this matter, the property really has to change hands from the original owner to the first buyer before anything can happen.

    But at this point I would think called the realator to help would be the best option or call all parties involved. To come up a solution to get the safes moved or to compensate in some form the original seller. Most safes with a dolly and 4-5 guys from what I have seen can be moved.
  • select-fireselect-fire Member Posts: 69,523 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    asked me to wait until the spring when the ground was dry.


    Pretty cut and dry. Seller made the agreement to pick up past closing. 1st buyer is responsible for the safes until they are removed off the premise.
  • nards444nards444 Member Posts: 3,994 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by select-fire
    asked me to wait until the spring when the ground was dry.


    Pretty cut and dry. Seller made the agreement to pick up past closing. 1st buyer is responsible for the safes until they are removed off the premise.


    I would agree if thats how its spelled out. Asking and on paper is to different things. When you sell a home obvious things like windows and doors can not be removed, also things that are attached or permanently affixed to the house are considered part of the house unless excluded in writing in the purchase offer. Other than that everything else like a safe would be considered personal property and to be removed by the seller prior to closing, unless a writeen agreement extended that period till a later date after closing. But there would be a date or time frame attached to that, saying till spring doesnt really count unless it was written. But if written then yes the original buyer would have the responsibility to protect and safeguard for that time period. But if the time period was omitted or the time period was excessively long any judge would probably limit the statue of limitations and throw out any sort of claim. Best bet is to call everybody and figure out a solution.

    My idea get it outside and put it on some sort of sled that wont mark up the ground. But again the second buyer has no play unless the OP signed a contract with them, and like I said earlier I dont know how much weight that would carry as the whole thing would be like a contingency contract which carries little weight in a court because its built on things that should or might have happened or will happen vs what actually did happen. but best bet is to just get it moved the buyers come in good luck getting your safe as if it were me your not coming back on my property and the cost effectiveness of taking somebody to court over a used 1000 dollar safe probably makes it not worth it.
  • kimikimi Member Posts: 44,719 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spartacus
    quote:Originally posted by barbwired
    quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
    Have the sheriff go with the movers, and take some plywood sheets.
    He's right they can't keep your stuff.


    I'll give the sheriff a call in the morning. he and his wife/kids were my patients when I had my clinic there. nice guy. he signed my M16 paperwork and asked if the dept could borrow it if needed.[:)]


    tom


    Good luck!
    What's next?
  • Mr. PerfectMr. Perfect Member, Moderator Posts: 66,437 ******
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Spartacus
    sold my rural house/property and agreed to the buyers request not to run the forklift thru the pasture to get the two gun safes. asked me to wait until the spring when the ground was dry.
    there is a room that was built onto the back of the house and i put the two safes in there ten yrs ago with a forklift.
    the buyer re-sold the house last month and the new buyers gave me 30 days to remove the safes.
    so far ive sent two different moving companies out to get the safes, and both times the owner would not give them access to the back of the property with anything more than a dolly.
    so tonight they tell me I can come and empty the safes this week but i can't bring a fork lift or truck across the pasture.
    so, on april 1st they get two gun safes for free.
    basterds!!
    when i emtpy the safes i'm gonna lock the combinations INSIDE. OOOPPS, my bad.


    tom
    put a lien on their house.
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    And fiery auto crashes
    Some will die in hot pursuit
    While sifting through my ashes
    Some will fall in love with life
    And drink it from a fountain
    That is pouring like an avalanche
    Coming down the mountain
  • JgreenJgreen Member Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Here's the truth.

    1. We dont' have any writings here, per the posts. So we have an oral agreement with buyer 1.

    2. We don't have any writings between buyer 1 and buyer 2. So we dont' know what buyer 2 purchased from buyer 1. As far as buyer 2 is concerned, he may think that they bought the house and everything in it, including the safes.

    3. Don't be so sure that the safes aren't going to be considereed fixtures. You can also remove a bathtub, but it's just as hard as moving a safe where you need a forklift...

    4. I would call AND WRITE buyer 1, find out what is going on, and get copies of the sale documents between buyer 1 and 2.

    5. I would call AND WRITE buyer 2, and find out what he bought, what was he told, and let him know that the safes are yours.

    If you all can't reach an agreement, you have to decide what these safes are worth, and then decide if it's worth suing over.
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