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Rifle that shoots in the .2's

5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 2001 in General Discussion
Asked over yonder, thought I'd ask here too.If someone says they have a rifle that shoots in the .2's, does that mean every time, 2 out of 3 times, or 1 out of 10 or once in their whole life shooting that rifle?What is the standard?
If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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    4000fps4000fps Member Posts: 786 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey now that I have attached my Accu-Shot, I shoot in the .2's ALL the time. Thanks 5db again.
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    HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    Single groups are merely an anamoly...nearly any rifle will once in awhile shoot an outstanding group. In the Warehouse..no wind,no mirage,everything perfect..9 out of ten groups.IMHO. In the real world,most non-match shooters call it with one ( 1 ) good group. A match shooter will ag the rifle..over an axtended period of time.
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    5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    4000fps, Thanks, Anyone that can group in the .2's with a custom 5# mountain rifle in .460 Weatherby has my respect! Highball, It seems what your saying is the shooter can call it as they want. And how they call it will determine the "type" of shooter they are.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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    Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Consistantly my 6.5x55 sweedish.
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Patrick: *!Clouder..
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    LTS: Or the bubbling cruds. That's when the sphincter (edit) leaks and it runs down the leg and out the eyelets in your shoes..2 groups are still considered just * though.poof!Clouder..[This message has been edited by whiteclouder (edited 10-17-2001).]
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    5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    clouder, Just so you know, I once made up a song about the Sphincter muscle to the tune of "Oh Christmas tree". I'll try to post it's completeness for you sometime December. Until then, I'll leave you with; Oh Sphincter muscle, Oh Sphincter muscle, How I depend on thee.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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    Krag96Krag96 Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I recall My uncle telling of A fellow that bought A makarov pistol and 2 cases of ammo,he stapled a mattress carton to an out building and shot the 2 cases of ammo at the carton, from 100 yds. away, he found 5 holes that were within 2 inches of each other so he told people that his makarov would shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yards, he is telling the truth, but without explanation, the truth can sometimes deceive, ask our ex-president.
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    HighballHighball Member Posts: 15,755
    edited November -1
    The erudite but ignorant amongth us might oughti pick up a " Precision Shooting " magazine and read a little.
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    Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WhiteclouderI misread the .2 to be 2 and it is not bullcrap that I can manage 2s all along and in most instances beat that. Please forgive my mistake, I must be getting old, but consider the alternative.
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    TED GARTED GAR Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It is not the gun, it is the shooter. [This message has been edited by TED GAR (edited 10-20-2001).]
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    Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ted GarYes Some people eat more beans than others.
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    TED GARTED GAR Member Posts: 389 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Guess I am just a lucky dog.
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    OrphanedcowboyOrphanedcowboy Member Posts: 351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The standing IBS records for groups(unless eclisped recently) are as follows:10 @ 100yds : .119 R Maretzo10 @ 200yds : .245 E. Watson10 @ 300yds : .669 R Adamowicz 5 @ 100yds : .063 H Zeiser 5 @ 200yds : .161 D Pickens 5 @ 300yds : .739 W Miller These are the Heavy Bench Groups, I pulled these from the pages of Precicion Shooting, Before you say * to anyone, you should have all the Information before you. It has been done, and can continue to be done, so don't jump the person to soon. Just ask him to prove it!
    Orphanedcowboy@msn.com
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    orphan:Please list the cartridge that shot these marvelous groups. Bet you whatever you choose there isn't a 6.5X55 there. The * stands, a 6.5X55 won't do it.No apology needed Partick, you told us why you said what you said. Honest mistake. I make 'em every day, seems to get worse each year.Clouder..
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    OrphanedcowboyOrphanedcowboy Member Posts: 351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have no information on the exact cartridges, but I emailed the IBS for the information. I have trouble beleiving any cartridge will not shoot in the .2's. I do however beleive the gun and the shooter would. I had the opportunity to witness a "railgun" gun shoot 10 rounds through a hole only .020 bigger than the cartridge, but this was done in a tunnel, with a ridgid mounting fixture, all controlled by computer. The cartridge was .219 wasp, every round handloaded. I am sure the 6.5x55 swede if loaded into a custom gun and put into the hands of a capable shooter could shoot way better than 2's and possibly well under .5's. If you had read the info I posted one group was .063, I know of no cartridge that is a 1/16 of an inch in diameter, do you clouder, DON'T the cartridge, DON'T the shooter, and DON'T doubt the gun, just ask them to prove it.
    Orphanedcowboy@msn.com
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    orphan:Don't want a pissing contest, that's going on in another scatological thread elsewhere.Empirically, we see the larger the caliber the less accuracy that will be achieved. You will find that these incredibly small groups are shot using .22 caliber bullets. The size of the group is arrived at, by the way, by measuring the maximum outside diameter of the group MINUS the caliber of the bullet. Believe me when I say this, shooting these kind of groups is not easy, is not done by the average shooter and is not done using average off-the-shelf firearms.I noticed you used the whole number 2 instead of the .2. That's what got this started in the first place. Please be careful. Clouder..
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    salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Whatever clouder- But I would think someone who fancies himself a man with such a good vocabulary could find a better choice of words than bull@#$%, pi@#$% match.
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo:I've never claimed to possess or use anything more than standard high school English or employ a vocabulary beyond what you'd expect at the same level. That may be a little above your aspirations but there's not a lot I can do for you on that score, the rest of the board seem to get it.And just what, exactly, is your objection to the word match?Clouder..
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    BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    Whew doggies - smokes so thick can hardley see who's squarin off to who - In one corner we have........... - Just kidding. Hey Clouder I use my 30-30 with lyman peep sites and 26" barrel and get close to 2" groups most of the time and within 2" on my good days.
    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
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    thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I say you're ALL wrong. My Imitation Chrome Plated 25 Caliber Jennings with hand painted home boy day glow orange nyte sytes and attached mini bayonet can out shoot all of you. I consistantly shoot .0000001's! Beat that!!! So there...
    "Mommy said there were no real monsters but there are..."
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hey Blue,Most of us can or at least should be able to do that if we are entrusted to take animals in the field. If a person can't they should stick to a slaughter house or take up fishing.The discussion here at one time revolved around the ability of one poster to routinely shoot groups that would measure two tenths of an inch and do it with a 6.5X55 caliber rifle. I took exception and only used one word to express my opinion. Patrick, the original poster came back and said he meant two inches not two tenths. That cleared it up for me and most others.But, some other nosey parker couldn't leave it alone and started spouting figures and listing tables supporting his contention that .2 was an easy group to shoot. Of course they always publish only those figures that support their claim and when you call them on it they go suddenly quiet. Were it so that they would not open their yap to begin with. 2 inches with iron sights makes you a good shot. My hat if off to you.No clouds of smoke here Blue, if anything, I'm slightly amused at the children.Clouder..Monkey: Go peel a banana or something. I don't think you could hit yourself in the head with that thing. Wanna bet? Keepin' your head down lately. Me too.
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    thesupermonkeythesupermonkey Member Posts: 3,905 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I figured since I was in the presence of such expert marksmen(.2) it wasn't safe to attract too much attention
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    salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    You are right Clouder my apologies. Your inability to use words of a less profane nature on a board that explicitly says that you cannot use such language, certainly suggests you are someone with a "high school" vocabulary.
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    salzo:Apology accepted.Now mind your own business.Clouder..
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    salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clouder- I learned how to stick my nose into someone elses affairs from the best- his name is whiteclouder.
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    5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    whiteclouder, Two points, I'll quote you for both and I've taken some editorial liberties; ".2 groups are still considered just bull***t though." would lead one to conclude your opinion was that .2 groups impossible no matter what caliber rifle is used. Thus the posible reason for Orphanedcowboy's post. Your belated clarification is not lost on me, however it does lead to the second point. "I noticed you used the whole number 2 instead of the .2. That's what got this started in the first place. Please be careful." Being careful seems like good advice to give or receive.
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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    varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Patrick Odle,I am NOT going to take the time to dig up the Proof,But I beleve the 6.5X55 has won the Leach Cup at least twice.Thats a mere 1000yrds.In MY experence the 6.5x.55is one of the best rounds,Despite it's age.Just a opinion no facts or charts.
    A unarmed man is a subject.A armed man is a citizen.
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    5db:I really expected more from you. You are taking what I said out of context and you know it. You also know from long association that there is usually very little doubt about what I mean when I say something.salzo:Your last is so weak as to be undeserving of a direct response. You are a weed.Clouder..
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    Patrick OdlePatrick Odle Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Varmit HunterI can only attest as to what that caliber does for me and yes I stand ready to prove it to anyone interested..GOOd to see that you are knowable of the possible achievments of this particular cartridge.
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    salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okey Dokey whiteclouder- Sometimes there is no response to the truth.
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    5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    whiteclouder, Out of context? Not hardly! As posted and copied below with some editorial liberties taken. I took it you didn't believe .2 groups possible. Granted your third post cleared your position, but by then it had started to rain. Clearly saying what you mean is different than knowing what you mean to say and failing to. No big deal, Didn't mean to offend you, I was trying to explain how your posts (1&2) could be interpreted. whiteclouderMember posted 10-17-2001 08:05 PM
    Patrick: Bulls**t!Clouder..IP: Logged whiteclouderMember posted 10-17-2001 08:37 PM
    LTS: Or the bubbling cruds. That's when the sphincter (edit) leaks and it runs down the leg and out the eyelets in your shoes..2 groups are still considered just bulls**t though.poof!Clouder..[This message has been edited by whiteclouder (edited 10-17-2001).]
    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
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    OrphanedcowboyOrphanedcowboy Member Posts: 351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Clouder, I did in fact say 2's, meaning 2 inches, but I also said .5's meaning 1/2 inch groups, and I am talking of a capable shooter, I bought a rifle just 2 weeks ago off gunbroker, a 7mm-08, had it shipped to FT Worth, it had been dropped on the elevation turret cap, I carried the gun down to my own private range, with a witness and shot a .5 group off the bags, no changes to the gun or scope, and I did this with 3 rounds of factory Horandy ammo, and it was the very first time I shot the gun. I Don't know if Patrick is capable of shootins 2's or .2's, but I would be willing to bet, there is a 6.5x55 sweede out there that is capable of groups in the .2's I didn't intend to turn this into an ego contest, but for you to doubt anyone witout validity is outrageous, You can neither dispute nor disprove anyone with out all the facts.
    Orphanedcowboy@msn.com
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    whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    orphan, just curious, why a witness? You say it's so, it's so.5db. One last time. I never said that a .2 group could not be shot from any caiber. I didn't say it and you know I didn't. My BS remark applied to a 6.5X55 that consistantly(sic) shot that. I try to be accurate, sometimes I fail but please don't attribute words to me that I didn't post. Okay? Your friend,Clouder..
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    Krag96Krag96 Member Posts: 38 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Go get'em Mr. Clouder, I'll hold your jacket,and watch your back, (especially if your wallet is in your jacket pocket) I realized some time back that most of the posters here need remedial reading comprehension help, as they seem to see things that are not written or implied, or are incapable of understanding the actual meaning of clumps of words that contain more than four letters.
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    OrphanedcowboyOrphanedcowboy Member Posts: 351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Just happens we were sighting in his deer rifle, he was there, not as a witness, but to sight in his gun ...... Krag I may not have a great grasp of the english language, but I would be willing to bet there are far more rifles that will consistently shoot in the .2's than there are shooters that can shoot in the .2's Any one is entitled to believe anything they want, but to come to a public bulletin board and tell someone they are not capable of something is beyond me, especially if you have no knowledge of the person and are basing your statement on your own personal belief, if the caliber is such an inherently inaccurate caliber.........WHY IS IT SO POPULAR?
    Orphanedcowboy@msn.com
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    Andrew AdamsAndrew Adams Member Posts: 227 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm probably stupid for sticking my nose in here, but here goes.To publish a chart that shows the WORLD RECORDS for bench rest shooting, implies nothing about the topic at hand. I agree wholeheartedly with Clouder that almost nobody is capable of doing this on any kind of regular basis with any rifle caliber.To say otherwise is equivalent to saying that since Michael Jordan can get hot and go 6 for 6 from behind the three point arc in the NBA finals, therefore most can do it. The owners of those records have undoubtedly dedicated a major protion of their lives to this task, and have an additional inborn talent for what they do. To say that the average joe, even a serious shooter, can take his 6.5 Swede, or 218 bee, or any other caliber out and consistently shoot .2 is ridiculous. Even the bench rest records were done ONCE, I don't see that these guys did it a hundred times in a row or anything. The fact is that even if clamped, most rifles would not consistently group this tight due to ammo variation, etc.
    When you want to dial long distance...AT&T, .223, or Jeremiah 33.3?Member:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets
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    varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    kraig,I will be the fist to admit that i am probley the top of the list for remidal reading and writing skills .Some of us are not word smiths.Insted we are gunsmiths pro amature and tinkers.I spend countles hours even days polishing ,lappig,and loading to get maxam performace from a rifle.It way be pointles,Because under field conditions,I can not possibly shoot as well as a single rifle i own.I have several rifles that shoot in the.2.They did not get that way in one day.Some took up to a year to acheve this type of precision.For some one to come out and call all of this work BS is a little hard for some of us to take.We are proud of what we do as I am sure you and clouder are of your ability with words.Go ahead and rip me up with your command of the writen word,It will not deminish me are what I can do with a rifle.Patrick you dont have to prove that 6.5 to me ,Because I know from where you come.
    A unarmed man is a subject.A armed man is a citizen.
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    Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Once in SLC we did a .0 group at 100 yd wewere on the notion somehow we had a partialpowder burn and miss the target totaly untillwe examined the backstop ,3 steel jackets PERFECTLY "welded" in a single disk insidea lead donnut splatered in a 3/8 thick steelplate. .308 SA Sniper rifle 75mm 30x SP optics(We were not able to do it again) only .1.25 groups (100 mils 250 mill groups) but itwas realy a thing to remember in a life time!
    I judge Thee!, Not for what you are , but for what you say !
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    OrphanedcowboyOrphanedcowboy Member Posts: 351 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I did not post the chart to draw away fom the original subject, and what I took objection to was someone or anyone for that matter stating another person was not capable of what he had stated. Clouder said groups in the .2's were just b******t, and I was just giving factual material to dispute his claim, I didn't just say he was wrong, I produced evidence to substansiate my statement. Whether it is material to the subject or question at hand is irrelevant, I was making a statement that .2 groups are possible, and yes some have stood for as many a 20 yrs, but they are possible, maybe not under every condition or at every sanctioned event, but they happen daily, and are accomplished by people less skilled than the majority and by people well versed in the characteristics of his or her gun.
    Orphanedcowboy@msn.com
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