In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Problem with gunsmith: What to do?

salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
edited April 2002 in General Discussion
Last deer season, an in law borrowed my shotgun. The bozo plugged the barrel, and the barrel busrted at the tip. The in law bought a new barrel for me. He then went out and bought himself a shotgun, and I told him my gunsmith would could cut the burst barrel down for $65, plus "a little more" to put on a sight. I figured the burst barrel was his, since he bought me a new one, and it might benefit him to cut the bursted barrel so he could have a rifled barrel, without having to pay all the money for a new one. When I told him the price, he said GREAT. He was going to buy a deer barrel anyway, and this would be alot cheaper.
My gunsmith called me today, to tell me the barrel was ready. I asked him what the total price was, and he told me with the sight it is $150. He did not tell me exactly how much the sight would cost, but that appears to be a bit more than the "a little more" than he originally quoted. I figured "a little more" might be at the most $50, and certainly not $85, which is more than twice the amount of the original $65 dollar amount quoted.
When I told the new owner that it would be $65, plus a "little more" for the sight, he figured he would have the sight put on, even though he is planning on using a scope.
I do not think my in law is going to want the barrel at that price. And I think he is justified in not taking it. He had it cut down so that he would not have to pay alot of money for a new one. For twenty dollars more, he can buy a new barrel, so what is the point?
But I am the middle man, and I want to do what is right, but I do not think I am going to buy the barrel and take the loss. Again, the price seems alot higher than originally quoted, and therefore, I am not sure whether the "right" thing to do is buy the barrel myself, and take the loss, or tell the gunsmith it is way higher then expected, and I do not want it.
What is the right thing to do?

Happiness is a warm gun
«1

Comments

  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Tell the bozo straight up, it cost $150 and if he wants it, go to the gunsmith and get it. That makes it his choice and you don't have to explain why the price is so high, the gunsmith does.

    Tell the gunsmith that he missed his estimate by more that is acceptable for a professional, unless he's a professional crook. Again, stright up, he has to know you're not happy with him. He can take it.

    Deed is done, and it's not your fault. Bozo started it, let him pay.

    Clouder..
  • competentonecompetentone Member Posts: 4,696 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "Can I get a written quote for this repair?"

    Those words can save a lot of grief. (And make sure it is a "quote" and not an "estimate".)

    As for now, what did the smith say when you said, "But I thought you said..."?
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I don't know that I would call either a bozo, though both have acted like it. The in-law at least made good on his blunder. I agree with Clouder that getting yourself out of the middle is best, and letting the smith know you are unhappy is also important. A mechanic would have called and said, it was going to be double the estimate, and did you want to proceed or change your mind.
  • k.stanonikk.stanonik Member Posts: 2,109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo, what i would do is go back with the inlaw to the smithy and let him hear the price, if he is unhappy then bring up the subject that it was only suppose to be a few bucks more for the sight and ask what happened to the price. if the response doesnt sound right to you or the inlaw then ask the man what he wants to do and try to work it out from there.
  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994
    edited November -1
    I agree with 'Clouder on both ends.

    We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The problem is, the inlaw lives in VA, while me and the smith are here in PENNSYLVANIA.
    I just talked to the inlaw, and he is not happy, but wants the barrel nonetheless. He did tell me a smith in VA put a bead on his smooth bore for twenty dollars. I do not know how much it costs to put a sight ramp on, but I do know that the final price is "alot more", and not "a little more", as originally stated. The problem I am havinfg is the subjectivity of the whole thing. Who am I to decide what "a lttle more" means.But I do feel that my assessment of "a little more" is better than the Smiths.

    Happiness is a warm gun
  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994
    edited November -1
    I'd say a good rule of thumb (or common sense) would be LESS than the quote of $65.

    "It'll run $65.00 plus a little more" tells me that the $65 is the BULK of the cost.

    We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
  • k.stanonikk.stanonik Member Posts: 2,109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    In this case then salzo in order to keep peace with the in-laws how about splitting the difference of the cost of the sight and next time get exact price on future work, i only say this to keep harmony in the family.
  • whiteclouderwhiteclouder Member Posts: 10,574 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    k.s

    Not a good idea. Salzo did not cause the problem. If there are bad feelings on the in-laws part you will only add 'sucker' to the list of adjectives they use to describe salzo when he's not around.

    Stand your ground, salzo. It's not your fault, don't make it so.

    Clouder..



    Edited by - whiteclouder on 04/25/2002 11:34:44
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That strikes me as pretty sage advice from a junior member! We need to keep this guy around.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Member Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Post the GS's name, and address here, I dont EVER want to go to him. A verbal quote should be close not under by more than 100% 10-15 bucks would have been acceptable. He should have called you and let you make the decision if the cost was going to overrun his estimate by that much. If its a difference of 20 bucks for a new one, tell the GS that you were willing to go to 85-90 for the repair. If he doesnt give you that price, let him eat the bbl and buy a new one.
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    It sounds like miscommunication has occurred somewhere along the line. If it were me, prior to confronting this gunsmith I would go ask another gunsmith what it would cost to do the exact same job. This may resolve your questions before any confrontation occurs. If it turns out to be the same then this is a non-issue.

    If, on the other hand, it turns out to be way to high, then go ask the original gunsmith why so much when he originally quoted you it would be $65 and "a little more" for the sight. Tell him that 2.5 times the original cost is not what you considered to be "a little more" for the sight, and then see what he says. He may have made an honest mistake, or maybe forgot what he had told you to begin with. That happens to us as we get older. I always give a person the benefit-of-the-doubt before I get in their face. If his answer is neither satisfactory nor reasonable, then tell him that you are disappointed with his business practices. Also tell him this is the last business you will ever do with him, and that you will be advising all your friends to not trade with him either. Then walk away.

    By all means keep your cool, it never pays to loose your temper. It gains you nothing, and makes you look like a jerk.

    Good luck, Boomer

    Protect our Constitutional Rights.

    Edited by - Boomerang on 04/25/2002 12:05:11
  • Tailgunner1954Tailgunner1954 Member Posts: 7,734 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The only way the total price makes any sense is it he installed a screw in choke system. Of course I would squeal about paying 65 dollars to trim it back and install a bead.

    Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
  • edharoldedharold Member Posts: 465 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would tell the GS that I was not happy with the fact that he didn't come close to the estimate, make him an offer, negotiate a little if necessary. Walk away if you can't get a compromise. He doesn't want the barrel, the amount is too small for small claims court, and you're trying to be reasonable. You have to be ready to leave it though to have any leverage.
    Good luck!

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"Benj. Franklin, 1759
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There are really two issues here. First the gunsmith. His overrun without counsulting Salzo is inexcusable, and perhaps some negotiation will resolve that. While it is not Salzo's fualt, probably there should have been a written quote. Having said that, I probably would have trusted the guy to.

    The second issue is the in law. While he bungled and plugged the barrel, he did replace it, and Salzo tried to help him out with a less expensive rifled barrel for the in law's new shotgun. While what happened with the gun smith is not Salzo's fault, the in law may or may not be able to see that, and Salzo will have to live with the perception as well as the facts. If he doesn't, offering to pay half the over run may be a small price to pay for peace in the family. If the in law agrees that Salzo is not responsible for the overrun, then getting with the gun smith to resolve the issue is all that is necessary. In that case, I think Boomerang nailed the negotiation with the gunsmith. In the end, if the smith is not reasonable let him keep the barrel and eat the costs.
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The $65 should have covered both parting off the visibly bulged end and installing a sight. It's a ripoff from the start. Don't let your in-law throw good money after bad. It's unlikely the gunsmith will drastically reduce his price by 50% to $75 where it should be so I'd advise you both to walk away from the whole thing.
    Additionally, there's some chance the barrel may not shoot well because of the accident.
  • k.stanonikk.stanonik Member Posts: 2,109 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thank you he dog, money can be replace but ill feelings in a family cost far more than the expense, yes the family member damaged the barrel and replaced it, yes salzo came up with a reasonable cost fix to the problem, the smithy may have been wrong in his price but if the in law wants it and it is lesser cost than the price of a new one like he wants then talk to the man, try to work out a price, if he comes down great, if not then split the extra cost. i hate to say it but this could come back in the future to haunt you salzo, people calm down for a little while but in the future if thy get bent out of shape it might come up again, if it does the inlaw can look back and say you know when this happened he helped me out an i respect him for doing so instead of that sob set up a deal and screwd me on the price.
  • niklasalniklasal Member Posts: 776 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You know what you COULD do....

    It is wise just to walk away from the whole deal. Bad news is that this jerk of a Gunsmith just got himself a nice new barrel.. FREE. He'll keep an eye out for the next opportunity to screw someone else. To keep this from happening, first reason with him. Tell him why you think the price is too high/it's WAY over bid etc. If he refuses to lower the price, ask to see the barrel. Next take a 2-lb. Sledge and hit it right in the middle. Tell him you don't want it. You're out of a barrel, but he doesn't get one for free...



    NIKLASAL@hotmail.com
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    That's a good one. I like it, I like it.
  • SawzSawz Member Posts: 6,049
    edited November -1
    Go in to smith write him a check for full amount then leave. Put a stop on the check. now you have the barrel in your possesion, take the barrel to another smith and ask for a quote that is more reasonable just ask wht it would be to add the sight since youve already got a verbal quote on the barrel write another check for the "fair amount" minus the stop check fee ,send it to him and on back of check above endorsement line put payment in full for invoice #**** you had a three way verbal agreement. And it was the smith who broke that contract with his amount but theres no sense in leaving him with a good barrel which is what im thinking he wants you to do


    "Respect your Tools"
    "Freedom is not Free"
  • steveamy4steveamy4 Member Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Without a written quote, you are screwed. Live and learn.
    Steve
  • arthur wellingarthur welling Member Posts: 66 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    Go in to smith write him a check for full amount then leave. Put a stop on the check. now you have the barrel in your possesion,


    Sawz,

    In this state what you describe is a crime. I know, I have
    nailed people for doing it. The JP had no sense of humor about it all.
  • steve45steve45 Member Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It sounds pretty cool but anybody walking into a gun shop with a hammer in his hand may run into trouble (can you say multiple gunshot wounds). Talk to the smith, be honest about everything and see if he will work with you. If not never go there again.
  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your inlaw acted like a gentleman by buying you a new barrel. Don't refer to him as a "bozo" because of the accident--it could happen to anyone.

    You made the deal with the gunsmith. You made the mistake of letting him proceed without knowing exactly how much he would charge. Your inlaw had nothing to do with that. He should bear no part of "your" mistake.

    Be a gentleman. Go to the gunsmith and pick up the barrel. Pay the $150. After doing so, politely tell him you had not expected it to cost that much, but do not get into an arguement with him.

    Let your inlaw pay no more than $65 for the barrel. This way he will be beholding to you. Family harmony is priceless--it's sure not worth jeprodizing over a few bucks. Your objective is to be seen by the family as the man who rises above petty issues.

    Tell others who ask for gunsmith recommendations that you had a less than positive experience with this guy, but also tell them you are partly to blame. If he did a quality job, admit it. But recomend to others to get quotes up front.

    Consider it a cheap $85 lesson learned and move on. Put this situation behind you.

    That's my 2-cents.
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Rafter- You tell me not to call my in law a bozo because it could happen to anyone. I dont think so.
    There was lots of good advice posted, but Rafter, yours is some of the dumbest I have ever read-but I appreciate it.

    Happiness is a warm gun
  • stanmanstanman Member Posts: 3,052
    edited November -1
    salzo,
    No shortage of advice here, and most of it might be good, BUT!!
    What is your own personal experience with this smith? You referred to him in your original post as "my" smith. If you are happy with the other work he's done for you and would like to continue using him for your future needs, then maybe you need to swallow hard and share in some of the pain.
    If you don't care about using the man in the future and good smiths grow on trees in your neck of the woods then walk away and let the guy do what he wants with the barrel.
    I use an auto mechanic who's bills exceed his verbal estimates 1/2 the time. Fortunately, the other 1/2 the time he charges less than his estimates. He knows my vehicles and does quality work, so I put up with his bad memory.
    I agree that from your description of how this whole thing unfolded, you got bit in the * trying to do a favor for somebody! And, I don't know about PA, but in this part of the country, IF I could find a decent smith, I'd wash his car and mow his lawn for the pleasure of leaving my firearms in his care.

    (just my two cents worth, good luck.)
  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, if that's the case, take the hammer in there and beat the hell out of the barrel, tell the smith to stick it were the sun don't shine, write him a bogus check, and send the bill to your bozo inlaw.

    And whatever you do, don't take me serious on that. :-)
  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    Hmmmm - well you can't shot them. Well you could but that just ain't right. I agree that you should go to the smith and ask what happened to the 65.00 and a LITTLE bit more for the site. Person to person is best. The In-law is a bit of a Bozo, but he already made good on screwing up a perfectly good barrel - no need to stick him with that price on a used short barrel. I usually bring my smith a bottle of Jim Beam when I need something done. I tell him It's for me - so I can have a shot when he tells me the price of the work....

    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)
  • LightningLightning Member Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Take about $85. The 65 plus a little more to him.
    Tell him that is all it is worth to you. (In a nice way)
    He can take the 85 or keep the barrel.
    Let him choose.
    If he takes the 85. Done deal.
    If he dont. Find another smith next time.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,695 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Don't lend out tools or guns.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The trouble with small businesses is that sometimes they forget what they told you the last time you were in the shop. I asked a guy what he charged for a mail order transfer and he said 5% plus sales tax. Next time I went in he swore it was always 10% plus sales tax.

    Given the human factor, I would get it committed to paper -- trouble is, most of us don't think of that until it's too late, and then its his word against mine. Whereupon, of couse, the customer is always right, but gun shop owners have a funny way of thinking it's the opposite case, even more than most.

    -- Life NRA Member
    "If dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • Rafter-SRafter-S Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo-- It's been 2 days since you posted anything on this subject. Most of us are curious as to the outcome, and the skill with which you handled the issue. What is the status? Are you in jail? Not hearing anything from you makes me wonder if the gunsmith had you arrested for beating the barrel flat. --Rafter-S :-)
  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994
    edited November -1
    ^

    We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I went to the gunsmith, and asked him why the the cost was so much higher than I was originally quoted. He said because he had to install the sight. He also told me he had to build the sight(which he did not, he bought it from Numrich, and it was a stock Ithaca deerslayer ramp. I was there when the other smith in the shop ordered it, and it was identical to the ramps that are on my other two Ithaca deerslayer barrels. Right there he is lying, and that makes me feel a lot better). I told him that he originally said the cost was 65 plus a "little more" for the sight. I explained to him $85 was not a little more, it was a lot more. He had no response to this. I then explained that it was about thirty dollars less than the cost of a new barrel, that I consulted with other Smiths who quoted a price that was no more than 85 dollars, and that if it was going to be so much more than the original price quoted, he should have called to discuss that with me. To all of this, he said nothing.
    I told him I did not think the person who wanted the barrel is going to pay for this, but I would give him your phone number and he will discuss it with you.
    My suspicions were confirmed, the smith was trying to soak me.

    Happiness is a warm gun
  • v35v35 Member Posts: 12,710 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo, Maybe you could get some satisfaction in small claims court.
  • simonbssimonbs Member Posts: 994
    edited November -1
    Too bad he'll get a barrel to sell/use out of the deal .

    V35, I don't think he'll have any legal recourse. If he had a quote in writing, he would. But, not with an obscure, verbal 'a little more'.

    We only have a few special years with our children in which they desire our time, attention, and love. After that time is over, it is gone forever, and we will be the ones that desire their time, attention, and love. Make those few, short years count -
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    ....was it a Union or non-union gunsmith?....stir...stir, as Rembrandt crawls into his foxhole....(it's not really my fault, I learned all this from Dano)
  • SixStringerSixStringer Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Salzo

    Id reccomend reporting this guy to the better buisness bureau, or atleast telling him you will if he doesnt give you an honest price.
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Thanks for the advice SixStringer- but I do not feel running to some government agency and crying to them to exact some sort of justice is the answer. Unlike you, I do not feel the government i is there to solve all of lifes problems, and make all decisions whenever a decision has to be made.

    Happiness is a warm gun
  • SawzSawz Member Posts: 6,049
    edited November -1
    Is it a gun store with a gunsmith as a sideline or strictly a gun smith, what im getting at is there a manager above him you can go to and complain and show him whats going on? Now that his intentions are clear,I like my previous suggestion still.may be Illegal in some places but if you end up paying him an appropriate sum he may just let it slide cuz he knows he wasnt up front about the whole thing, and he doesnt get a free barrel, what a slime ball... any way to get the other smith who ordered it to get in on this? along with the manager?



    "Respect your Tools"
    "Freedom is not Free"
Sign In or Register to comment.