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If your life depended on you winning

SilverkingSilverking Member Posts: 331 ✭✭✭
edited May 2006 in General Discussion
a 500 yard match. Would you go with a 30-06 or .308?
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Comments

  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • zipperzapzipperzap Member Posts: 25,057
    edited November -1
    ... or Eric Heiden!
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,233 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
  • kristovkristov Member Posts: 6,633
    edited November -1
    I'd just hire G. David Tubb, then sit back and relax.
  • Rebel_JamesRebel_James Member Posts: 4,746
    edited November -1
    '06

    Check Remington's ammo tables. The '06 is more accurate when using the same bullet weight.
  • CLINTFCLINTF Member Posts: 735 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    .308 because that's what I use! I'm sure the 30/06 is more than capable too.
  • nomadictaonomadictao Member Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would have to say '06 because I don't have much experience with a .308. My Mod 70 is the only rifle I ever shot and hit a target at 500 yds.
  • One shotOne shot Member Posts: 1,027
    edited November -1
    Remington 700 with a custom barrel chambered in 30-06.
  • Flyin_PaulieFlyin_Paulie Member Posts: 857 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by Silverking
    a 500 yard match. Would you go with a 30-06 or .308?
    Use the one you can shoot the best while quivering.[:D]
  • duckhunterduckhunter Member Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What kind of question is that?

    The 308 is a WAS DESIGNED as reduced power 30-06.

    The 30-06 is probably the greatest American rifle cartridge ever fielded.
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
    The 308 is a WAS DESIGNED as reduced power 30-06.

    The 30-06 is probably the greatest American rifle cartridge ever fielded.

    What kind of answer is that?
  • gap1916gap1916 Member Posts: 4,977
    edited November -1
    winning indicates a game. life and death is no game. the rifle and the shooter is way more important than the calibur. My 2 cents [8D]
  • p3skykingp3skyking Member Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
    The 308 is a WAS DESIGNED as reduced power 30-06.

    The 30-06 is probably the greatest American rifle cartridge ever fielded.

    What kind of answer is that?


    Why, the right one of course!

    The 7.62x51 is the Assault/Sturmgewehre cartridge of choice
  • KK Member Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    30-06 BUT would go 8MM Mauser if given the choice. <grin>
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
    Why, the right one of course!

    The 7.62x51 is the Assault/Sturmgewehre cartridge of choice

    Heh-heh-heh. I thought 7.62x51 was for "Battle Rifles" and "Assault Rifles" fired stuff like 5.56mm and 7.62x39.

    Interesting that the maximum effective range of the M1, M14 and M16 is the same (500 yards).
  • alledanalledan Member Posts: 19,541
    edited November -1
  • shootlowshootlow Member Posts: 5,425
    edited November -1
    7mm just to stir things up [}:)]
  • Da-TankDa-Tank Member Posts: 3,718 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Me still thinkith the 5.56 does not have a KILLING range of 500 yards.
    It may shoot that far but as far as effective,,naw no way
  • lazeruslazerus Member Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
  • scottm21166scottm21166 Member Posts: 20,723
    edited November -1
    I can't see 500 yards in front of me but my hindsight is 20-20 looking back I would use the 30.06
  • mrseatlemrseatle Member Posts: 15,467 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My trusty Rem710 in 30-06 if I can't use the ole Aluminun Sliver Gun.
  • Horse Plains DrifterHorse Plains Drifter Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 40,233 ***** Forums Admin
    edited November -1
    quote:p3skyking Posted
    The 30-06 is probably the greatest American rifle cartridge ever fielded.
    X-RING!!!!!! 100 years old and still kickin' *!
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:What kind of question is that?

    The 308 is a WAS DESIGNED as reduced power 30-06.

    The 30-06 is probably the greatest American rifle cartridge ever fielded.

    Actually that is not the right answer. The .308 was intended to dublicate 06 ballistics in a short cartridge. It got about 90% of the way there, but it was never intended to be a reduced power 06.

    I think I might be SOL, I don't think I am a 500 yard shooter, though I don't have a 500 yard range to try it on. Lets see that is how much drop?
  • willdallas2006willdallas2006 Member Posts: 285 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I dont understand why a 22lr jennings isnt an option, No serious shooter would ever choose any other gun..........As for those two, i pick the 30-06.
  • 1911a1-fan1911a1-fan Member Posts: 51,193 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    .308

    everything you need right there, far better stabilized bullet
  • hughbetchahughbetcha Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    It wouldn't make any difference at 500 yards, but I would go with the 30-06. At 1000 yards I think the 30-06 would have a slight advantage.

    DWS, the reason the maximum range of M1, M14 and M-16 is about 500 yards is because the cartridge is not the limiting factor. The limiting factor is the eyesight/shooting ability of the soldier/shooter.

    DaTank, The 5.56mm ss109 is capable of penetrating a steel helmet at 800 yards. It would definitely deliver lethal hit at 500 yards, assuming the bullet hit a lethal spot on the target.
  • mondmond Member Posts: 6,458
    edited November -1
    without a shadow of a doubt....308 oh yeh![:)]
  • WarbirdsWarbirds Member Posts: 16,936 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Maybe a tactical 30-06 in some sort of trendy new wildcat, like a 30-06 short action ultra mag or something catchy like that. Not only could it outshoot either but felt recoil could be reduced and you could save 4-6 grains of powder per reload!
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
    DWS, the reason the maximum range of M1, M14 and M-16 is about 500 yards is because the cartridge is not the limiting factor. The limiting factor is the eyesight/shooting ability of the soldier/shooter.

    Where do you get this crap, Hugh? It's maximum effective range, not maximum range, and maximum effective range has nothing whatever to do with the reasons you suggest; if it did, today's soldier wouldn't need anything that could shoot more than 50 yards offhand or 100 yards prone.
  • HappyNanoqHappyNanoq Member Posts: 12,023
    edited November -1
    which ever...

    I don't care
  • dcso3009dcso3009 Member Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Both. Either. You pick. They all come to mind. It does not matter. They are so close, they are almost a duplicate of each other.
  • hughbetchahughbetcha Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
    quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
    DWS, the reason the maximum range of M1, M14 and M-16 is about 500 yards is because the cartridge is not the limiting factor. The limiting factor is the eyesight/shooting ability of the soldier/shooter.

    Where do you get this crap, Hugh? It's maximum effective range, not maximum range, and maximum effective range has nothing whatever to do with the reasons you suggest; if it did, today's soldier wouldn't need anything that could shoot more than 50 yards offhand or 100 yards prone.


    Maximum effective range would be the maximum range at which a soldier could spot and hit a man sized target or the vitals on a man etc. 50 or 100 yards might be the average range or the average practical range under most modern battle conditions, but not the maximum effective range.

    Maximum means with all things in favor of the best shooting possible, such as on a shooting range. While I will admit that not many battles are fought on shooting ranges, we are trying to maximize conditions in favor of the shooter to determine maximum capabilities.
  • FrancFFrancF Member Posts: 35,279 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    For me .308 I haven't done any formal matches with my Rem 40xbr yet but at 500 yards, I am confident I could stay in a running match.

    But if I had the same rifle in 06 I could still shoot the same with just a little less comfort.
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
    Maximum effective range would be the maximum range at which a soldier could spot and hit a man sized target or the vitals on a man etc. 50 or 100 yards might be the average range or the average practical range under most modern battle conditions, but not the maximum effective range.

    Maximum means with all things in favor of the best shooting possible, such as on a shooting range. While I will admit that not many battles are fought on shooting ranges, we are trying to maximize conditions in favor of the shooter to determine maximum capabilities.

    Wrong again. Suggest you consult an Army FM or Guidebook for Marines for definition of Maximum Effective Range. Again, where do you get this stuff? Pull it out of your *?
  • hughbetchahughbetcha Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
    quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
    Maximum effective range would be the maximum range at which a soldier could spot and hit a man sized target or the vitals on a man etc. 50 or 100 yards might be the average range or the average practical range under most modern battle conditions, but not the maximum effective range.

    Maximum means with all things in favor of the best shooting possible, such as on a shooting range. While I will admit that not many battles are fought on shooting ranges, we are trying to maximize conditions in favor of the shooter to determine maximum capabilities.

    Wrong again. Suggest you consult an Army FM or Guidebook for Marines for definition of Maximum Effective Range. Again, where do you get this stuff? Pull it out of your *?


    DWS, Where do you get your information.. Emily Post's Ettiquette for Young Girls?
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
    DWS, Where do you get your information.. Emily Post's Ettiquette for Young Girls?

    I already gave you two standard military references and you're still insisting you're right? Okay. Have it your way.
  • beantownshootahbeantownshootah Member Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by DancesWithSheep
    quote:Originally posted by hughbetcha
    Maximum effective range would be the maximum range at which a soldier could spot and hit a man sized target or the vitals on a man etc. 50 or 100 yards might be the average range or the average practical range under most modern battle conditions, but not the maximum effective range.

    Maximum means with all things in favor of the best shooting possible, such as on a shooting range. While I will admit that not many battles are fought on shooting ranges, we are trying to maximize conditions in favor of the shooter to determine maximum capabilities.

    Wrong again. Suggest you consult an Army FM or Guidebook for Marines for definition of Maximum Effective Range. Again, where do you get this stuff? Pull it out of your *?


    Reality injection time. . .

    http://www.army-technology.com/glossary/maximum-effective-range.html

    quote:Maximum Effective Range

    Maximum effective range is the maximum range within which a weapon is effective against its intended target.


    Sounds to me like the term reflects a function of the weapon, not the shooter.

    To wit, handing an M16 to a blind man doesn't change the effective range of the gun. (Though it would decrease the likelihood of actually hitting the "intended target").

    If you look at the "official" numbers, the M16, M1, and M14 all are "effective" to about 500 meters. What that means in reality is a whole other story.
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
    If you look at the "official" numbers, the M16, M1, and M14 all are "effective" to about 500 meters. What that means in reality is a whole other story.

    Not really.
  • hughbetchahughbetcha Member Posts: 7,801 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DWS, I must have missed your two previous definitions. I am giving my opinion, not arguing about the textbook definition of maximum effective range. I would site as a source Understanding Firearms Ballistics, Robert Rinker, page 406, definition of maximum range not be confused with maximum effective range.

    I do not believe maximum effective range should be determined simply as a mechanical function of the weapon or cartidge. I believe it is necessary to factor in the capabilities of an average shooter, and I am pretty sure that's the way effective range is really judged.

    I believe the term effective should refer to the ballistic capability of the round, the ability or the weapon to put the bullet on target, and the limitations of the human body.

    The .308, 30-06 and .223 are capable of "effective" fire past 800 yards, it just depends on what you call effective. I know the SS109 was designed to penetrate a steel helmet at 800 yards. That sounds pretty effective to me and its way past 500 yards.
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