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Go-Kart Transmissions with Reverse
ZERODIN
Member Posts: 6,338
Alright - I need some advice from the mechanics on the board. [:)]
Say you have a cable-gondola-thing of sorts. The starting and ending points are the same elevation so it doesn't have to go up a mountain or anything. It does have to climb the slack in the cable, though, so it needs some power.
The idea is to use a small gas engine, say 5hp or something else in the go-kart range. I was looking at go-kart torque converters and think they're the way to go as far as a transmission goes, because they give you the low-end torque but also speed as you throttle up along the cable.
The problem is that you have to go both directions on this thing. So I need a go-kart-size forward/reverse transmission that goes the same speed either direction. I was going to go engine-->torque-converter-->forward/reverse-->cable-wheel.
Does anyone know of a source for such a thing? The alternative is a five-pulley box with one pulley on a lever to hold against one of the two slip-belts to change direction, but I'm sure the board can come up with better than that. [:)]
Thanks.
Say you have a cable-gondola-thing of sorts. The starting and ending points are the same elevation so it doesn't have to go up a mountain or anything. It does have to climb the slack in the cable, though, so it needs some power.
The idea is to use a small gas engine, say 5hp or something else in the go-kart range. I was looking at go-kart torque converters and think they're the way to go as far as a transmission goes, because they give you the low-end torque but also speed as you throttle up along the cable.
The problem is that you have to go both directions on this thing. So I need a go-kart-size forward/reverse transmission that goes the same speed either direction. I was going to go engine-->torque-converter-->forward/reverse-->cable-wheel.
Does anyone know of a source for such a thing? The alternative is a five-pulley box with one pulley on a lever to hold against one of the two slip-belts to change direction, but I'm sure the board can come up with better than that. [:)]
Thanks.
Comments
Merc
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. " - Al Capone, (1899-1947)
"Tolerating things you may not necessarily like is part of being free" - Larry Flynt
Love them Beavers
Some guys like a mag full of lead, I still prefer one round to the head.
Try a 5 horse moter with hydrolic pump with a small hydrolic motor.
That's what my idea would have been. It'll give you the horsepower to climb and foward/reverse. It's a little more maintenance intensive though. If you don't want to do that, then look for an old ATV transmission that you could possibly retrofit if you are wanting to save a little cash.
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Look for a Robin-Subaru golf cart engine, they operate in either direction.
That would be my first choice of where I would look first.
My second would be Yerfdog go-karts, the go karts you see at pep boys and wally world. They make an engine with a gearbox for reverse and forward. The only problem with them is that their costumer service has to be some of the worst of any company that I have ever had to deal with. Robin has great costumer service though.
cbxjeff<P>It's too late for me, save yourself. <br>
A brake/lock system would also be nice so you don't roll down to the middle of the cable when you stop at either end. Right now you have to grab a wire off a post at the end and wrap it around the main bar of the car, and when someone tries to help you wrap it around the bar it ends up wrapped around the bar and your thumb together. That's kind of the main motivation on this upgrade, is to avoid lost digits. [B)]
For those that remember: this is indeed for plains_scout's river crossing. He took me down to his ranch this weekend - amazing place but there has to be a better way to get across that river. [8D]
AlleninAlaska
Delta Firearms & Supplies
http://www.galleryofguns.com
aglore@gci.net
EvilDr235
Two types of people drive old cars.Rich people because they want to and poor people because they have to.
This is what I have in my outboard to haul traps. Expensive, but the whole kit is combined and can take a beating.
http://www.hhs.ca/Products.asp?CategoryID=3
I am running the 9HP unit, but 5HP is probably good for you.
All you would need is hoses, control valve and the hydraulic motor. This kit has the motor, gas tank, hyd tank, hyd filter, all on a base and carry handle.
How about maintenance? I wouldn't want to find out halfway across that I needed a replacement part or anything.
Love them Beavers
So far I still think the best value would be a straight gas drive using the existing motor and a go-cart drivetrain with some kind of reverse (lawnmower reverse might do the trick) because it's just so cheap compared to the $2,000 hydraulic solution.
Love them Beavers
ZERODIN,
That post by Plains Scout is still my all time favorite. I wish you guys would post some photos of the existing cable car setup.
I promise not to post any more helicopter, or Indiana Jones bridge ideas.
Indiana Jones bridge ideas are just fine for people. It's more the hunting rifles falling into the river that scare a guy. [;)]
I took a couple pictures when I was down there, but they came out blurry from the rain. Since I'm so close for the summer, if Scout lets me visit him again I'll see if I can get some close-up shots of the cable car itself.
Right now there are four controls: throttle, choke, clutch, and direction. The clutch is actually just a big lever attached to the engine, which is mounted on the floor by a hinge so you push the lever to lower the engine and tighten the drive belt. The direction control is the drive belt itself - you pull it off and put a twist in it, and throw it back on the engine pulley to go in reverse.
The idea is to make it just slightly less primitive. Just slightly. [8D]
This will propel you across faster than you would ever need. The pump is matched to the Honda motor. But you can vary the torque or speed by the Hydraulic motor that you need.
Very rugged and maintenance free unit. Mine has been used HARD in a saltwater environment for close to 4 years. I have it hooked to a Char-Lyn hydraulic motor that is running a Split wheel hauler. It hauls very fast and can easily put a 19 foot boat underwater.
The largest cost is the powerpack, but it is self-contained and very well built.
Love them Beavers
It is a handle that you turn clockwise and counterclockwise. The more you turn the handle the faster it goes.
The power pack has a throttle control for the honda engine. So you can throttle the engine up or down to and also control speed.
Everyone is somebody's "weirdo".
It all seems pretty expensive but may be the best solution. I'm still shopping for reverser gears out of lawn mowers, though. [:)]
I did find this hydraulic pump/tank assembly. Could you use the existing engine and save some major bank with it? http://www.hhs.ca/Details.asp?HeaderID=51
Love them Beavers
Here is a parts list for you
Power Pack
http://www.hhs.ca/Details.asp?HeaderID=32
Get #126-11
Control Valve
http://www.hhs.ca/Products.asp?CategoryID=7
Get rotary valve #410
Hydraulic Motor
http://www.hhs.ca/Products.asp?CategoryID=5
Char-Lynn #101-1003(Speed) or #101-1004(Torque) I would go with more torque for your application.
Get the hydraulic hoses made up at most big garages or hardware stores. A good idea would be quick disconnects on the power pack connections. That way you could remove it for servicing or to keep others from using the lift, or taking the motor.
Removing the hose is a good idea - one reason Scout's place is so nice is because of how hard it is to get there. [:)]
I think it'd still be nice to have some kind of speed control, though, not only to prevent rough starts and stops but also to control the speed more carefully if it's windy or whatever. Does the valve (#410 or #400, or any other) have a smooth enough cutoff to control the speed by how far you push the lever?
I really appreciate all the responses so far. Scout and I were talking about making that thing safer and it came up how many redneck (as in "hey, y'all, watch this!") subjects you can get a good answer on by asking here. [:D]
When the valve is in nuetral there is 100% bypass back to the reservoir tank. As the rotary handle is turned, the percentage to the motor increases incrementally until 100%. Same for reverse, so the speed in forward and reverse is the same.
With this setup you would actually have two speed controls.
The first is the Honda Engine. There is a slide throttle. From dead slow to wide open.
The second is the Valve. It is very smooth as to the cutoff. You can get it to turn the motor only a few RPM's to the wide open value.
You can adjust either of these on the fly. You could idle the Honda, slowly open the valve, and then adjust speed by the Honda.
Or how we do it. Open the honda up 1/2 throttle or more and adjust speed by the valve.
The way I'm reading the numbers is that, at wide-open the power unit will give 5gpm flow, and the motors are each rated at 15gpm so I can take the rpm listed for each and divide by 3 to get what we'd be seeing. That is 115rpm for the slower motor and 190rpm for the faster one. I'll have to find out what the radius is on the wheels that hang over the cable and see what kind of reduction belts are already on there to find out how fast an rpm is on that sucker.
What do you think of Northern Tool's hydraulics? They have 2-stage, 11gpm pumps for around $100. See http://tinyurl.com/7vl4p.
Never heard of the Haldex brand around here in a boat either, doesnt mean it isnt any good, just not used in lobsterboats.
I dont think you would need a two-stage pump though.
Are you considering building your own type of powerpack? It is hard to make a compact one out of parts. You would probably have to go to a belt drive, the big problem about them is slippage. Hard to get the motor and pump to not slip. Used to have that type. The one on the links I showed was for a Direct Drive using a Love-Joy type of connector.
For a pump this is a good one
http://www.hhs.ca/Products.asp?CategoryID=6
Parker Gear Pumps #302-11 or #305-11
Also on the same page is pump brackets.
You would either want 041-11 or 081-11
Next you would have to figure out what pulley's you would use, you can get basically any ratio to make even more torque or speed. Staright one to one is easiest though.
But I would go with this motor, not much more than the Northern Tool one.
Love them Beavers
http://www.hydroslave.com/power_pack.html
I have the the other companies model, this link is to an imitator but it may be much cheaper, they dont list a price though.
In the last photo, you can see the control lever that tilts the gas engine sticking up above it to the right a bit in the photo, and you can see the belt with a twist in it for the return journey, going up to a pully. That pully drives another small one which drives a larger one again to reduce the drive speed delivered to the car wheel that run on the cable itself. I cut off the top of the car on the second and third photos, but you can see the two wheels that ride on the cable in the first picture.
That's Plains Scout trying to operate the crazy thing.
Mrs. Plains in outdoor clothing and friend of mine riding along. Raining cats and dogs.
It is a moving finger amputation machine is my worry. I try to always wear gloves so if I lose a finger we can find it in the glove (had a friend do that roping a cow two years ago)[:0]
It is a crazy contraption. We need to tighten the cable up this summer. Sagging a little. When all is going right it zings across that river. Bottom is starting to rot out I hope to find some light steal mess to put in the bottom.
The hinged motor clutch apparatus is true backwoods engineering. Amazing what you can do with a barn door hinge. The belt keeps flying off if everything is not tensioned just right.
Zerodin had his firt ride on the circus car and obviously it has had an effect[:D] We use to have a drive across crossing but an oil company riprapped their pipeline and it caused an effect that washed the crossing away. I am tightening the noose on them for this.
I really like some of these ideas being thrown around here.
Of course the "high" point of the cable is two. At each end and if you don't brake by holding the "clutch" back tight it slides back to the middle of the river. This can cause major panic for those weak of heart.[}:)]
Switching the belt to put a twist in it to reverse and ride back is the main problem along with braking.
The old rancher that built this thing hauled his kids across this to take them to school. Zerodin is right. One of the best features of the River Ghost Ranch is it is difficult to get to. Across that river behind that gate is the woods of which "Sanctuary" where we maintain about 25 acres of thick woods that no one gets to hunt in, including us.
If we cannot cross by ATV we either canoe or take the cable car.
Living in the fast lane I guess.[:D]
My friend is one... who takes me for what I am.
Henry David Thoreau
"If you do not allow yourself to find a positive way to get through the difficult times, you will become bitter. If you stay bitter, you do not get better." -- Joan Brock
I think the top wheel is a 15" tire rim. The bottom ones I don't know, but will measure so we can get the engineering right.
Oh by the way, beside it most likely amputating a few fingers in the past (just my suspicion)the only accident is one that our neighbor still talks about the time the cable broke when he and a lady were crossing at night. He said there were overloaded. I know the women and the were not over loaded, just loaded to the gills with a little of that good old mountain dew[;)]
Sorry i didn't get to stop and buy you a cup this time, but i had others with me and we were cutting things thin. Maybe we can meet and play a round at the Arnegard golf course! haha.
BTW - i do not think you are allowed to change the river or waterway contour or flow pattern in a crossing - as per the US Army corp of engineers regs. Might check their permit in Bismarck - or offer to. i would bet it is not to spec. and it might make them more "cooperative" in your venture or "add a little rosin" to your noose.
I am ..... gone huntin'