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Four Loko, Bad Stuff! (Hijacked Thread)
nunn
Forums Admins, Member, Moderator Posts: 36,085 ******
This stuff is apparently very popular among younger folk. I checked out a can of it in a local store. Can is 24 ounces. Alcohol content is 12%!!! By my math, one can of Four Loko has about as much alcohol as 5 or 6 normal beers.
Recently I encountered a young woman, 20 years old, who could not stand without assistance. She was about 5'5" and 120 pounds. She had been drinking Four Loko. She said she had one. Her companions said she had two. She was so wasted, that the intake personnel at the jail wouldn't let her in, so I took her to the hospital. At the ER, her BAC was .181%.
It took several hours for her BAC to get to a reasonable level. I tried to find a relative to come and take charge of her, but there were none available. We had to baby-sit her until the doctor felt it was safe to discharge her. She finished de-toxing at the County Jail.
When I found her, I took her from the custody of two very sober young men, who were helping her walk. Lord only knows where they were planning to go with her or what they were planning to do when they got there.
Comments
Bud Ice is 5.5% per 12 oz. Most of the 'ice' beers are higher alcohol and that is why you never see them in bars and restaurant's.
Doesn't the average beer have around 4% (excluding Oklahoma)
Most "normal" beers run around 3.2% to 6% alcohol. I like Bud Ice, and it is 5.5%.
I manage a liquor store, and I don't like in the least the way the industry is headed.
I want out.
FDA banned the caffeine in it. Was reformulated without the caffeine. No worse than a lot of other high alcohol beers, but it is fruit flavored which makes it go down easier. This seems to be the trend in the alcohol industry. Make it fruity, and sweet, and you don't realize the alcoholic content.
I manage a liquor store, and I don't like in the least the way the industry is headed.
I want out.
kinda like long island ice tea? I crawled more than a few feet after drinking that...
Four loko answered by removing the caffeine and it then was legal to sell again.
Theres nothing note inherently wrong with this over any other booze. It all get you drunk. This just does it more efficiently. Is it marketed for the younger crowd? For sure, but they drink too. Why not market too them?
Saying one type of booze is better than another is ridiculous. None of it's a particularly good for you and in the end there isn't much difference between 5 beers and 1 loko. Is somebody wants to get that drunk, they're going to do it. Beer, loko, bourbon, vodka. It all gets you too the same place.
When I found her, I took her from the custody of two very sober young men, who were helping her walk. Lord only knows where they were planning to go with her or what they were planning to do when they got there.
Did the hospital test for Rohypnol or other date rape drugs?
mass passed a law that states you can't sell alcohol and caffeine in the same container unless the caffeine is naturally occurring(i.e. coffee brandy).
Four loko answered by removing the caffeine and it then was legal to sell again.
Theres nothing note inherently wrong with this over any other booze. It all get you drunk. This just does it more efficiently. Is it marketed for the younger crowd? For sure, but they drink too. Why not market too them?
Saying one type of booze is better than another is ridiculous. None of it's a particularly good for you and in the end there isn't much difference between 5 beers and 1 loko. Is somebody wants to get that drunk, they're going to do it. Beer, loko, bourbon, vodka. It all gets you too the same place.
Absolutely true. What I have a problem with, is that the fruity ones go down easier to an inexperienced drinker. Like teenage girls. It seems to me that the liquor industry is promoting more and more fruity crap, that goes down easy, and gets to the inexperienced drinker fast.
I don't want my daughters involved with some * hole lothario with a cooler full of fruity drinks. Mine know better,(I hope) but a lot of them don't.
As I said before, I don't like in the least the way this industry is headed, and I want out.
mass passed a law that states you can't sell alcohol and caffeine in the same container unless the caffeine is naturally occurring(i.e. coffee brandy).
Four loko answered by removing the caffeine and it then was legal to sell again.
Theres nothing note inherently wrong with this over any other booze. It all get you drunk. This just does it more efficiently. Is it marketed for the younger crowd? For sure, but they drink too. Why not market too them?
Saying one type of booze is better than another is ridiculous. None of it's a particularly good for you and in the end there isn't much difference between 5 beers and 1 loko. Is somebody wants to get that drunk, they're going to do it. Beer, loko, bourbon, vodka. It all gets you too the same place.
valid points.
Is this crap sold as a beer or to persons 21 yrs of age or to any fool who walks in a 7-11?
The fastest drunk I have ever seen anyone get was either beer bong or by freezing the beer and drinking the alcohol right off the top
A tox-screen is SOP. Besides the alcohol, she showed a very small amount of marijuana in her system, but no other drugs.
quote:Originally posted by KEVD18
mass passed a law that states you can't sell alcohol and caffeine in the same container unless the caffeine is naturally occurring(i.e. coffee brandy).
Four loko answered by removing the caffeine and it then was legal to sell again.
Theres nothing note inherently wrong with this over any other booze. It all get you drunk. This just does it more efficiently. Is it marketed for the younger crowd? For sure, but they drink too. Why not market too them?
Saying one type of booze is better than another is ridiculous. None of it's a particularly good for you and in the end there isn't much difference between 5 beers and 1 loko. Is somebody wants to get that drunk, they're going to do it. Beer, loko, bourbon, vodka. It all gets you too the same place.
valid points.
Is this crap sold as a beer or to persons 21 yrs of age or to any fool who walks in a 7-11?
The fastest drunk I have ever seen anyone get was either beer bong or by freezing the beer and drinking the alcohol right off the top
It contains alcohol, so it can't be sold to anyone under 21. I even need to see an I'd for odouls because it does have a small amount of booze in it.
It's marketed to young people who haven't acquired a taste for hard liquor. Also, its cheap. In my store, a 24oz can is 2.99. The cheapest six pack in my store is 5.49. If you want to get ripped, there really isn't a way to do it cheaper, unless you want to start talking about averaging out the per oz cost of budget brand half gallons of booze.
Kids are going to drink. Whether its four loko or rubinoff vodka.
one can of that stuff is equivalent to a 750ml bottle of wine or a six-pack of beer. A 120# female more than likely would get pretty smashed from just the one drink.
I think David is correct that the 2 "dudes" got her smashed on purpose...
People have been wanting sweet, alcoholic drinks since the effects of alcohol were discovered. The first known beers were flavored with fruit and spices even. You can't go to any place that sells alcohol without finding a sweet, high content version also available. When I occasionally drink, I also end up drinking coffee so that I don't immediately fall asleep. Putting the caffeine in the drink is a good idea for people who want the caffeine. This product was developed to satisfy the demands of a customer base.
My opinion about this particular drink is that they should make the alcohol content label larger, with a warning, and easier to see. I do see it in the picture on four of the cans but I think it should be bigger and with a warning. Unfortunately, drink manufacturers get a lot of heat for prominently displaying alcohol content because of people trying to protect the public from this harmful information.
mass passed a law that states you can't sell alcohol and caffeine in the same container unless the caffeine is naturally occurring(i.e. coffee brandy).
Four loko answered by removing the caffeine and it then was legal to sell again.
Same in VA
Remind me never to help or protect a drunk female if I happen to be sober, lest I be judged as a rapist by the community at large. Too much risk in being a good Samaritan these days.
People have been wanting sweet, alcoholic drinks since the effects of alcohol were discovered. The first known beers were flavored with fruit and spices even. You can't go to any place that sells alcohol without finding a sweet, high content version also available. When I occasionally drink, I also end up drinking coffee so that I don't immediately fall asleep. Putting the caffeine in the drink is a good idea for people who want the caffeine. This product was developed to satisfy the demands of a customer base.
My opinion about this particular drink is that they should make the alcohol content label larger, with a warning, and easier to see. I do see it in the picture on four of the cans but I think it should be bigger and with a warning. Unfortunately, drink manufacturers get a lot of heat for prominently displaying alcohol content because of people trying to protect the public from this harmful information.
Well said........
I had 4 beers in an hour and a half so when I left the bar I felt fine, by the time I got pulled over I was feelin no pain. Luckily the cops were nice enough to pull my license for 24 hours and help me get my car to the hotel rather than haul me in for an official DWI.
The bad thing about drinks like this is they are marketed to younger people who probably don't have much experience with drinking. They ad caffine to suppress the depressive nature of the alcohol so you end up with a wide awake drunk who doesn't know when to say when.
They are todays wine coolers.
As for the warning label? Please, remember when you were a kid? high alcohol content was what made you buy it in the first place [:p][:D]
The fun of drinking beer is in the drinking. Not passing out.
the closest I ever came to getting a DWI was from drinking beer in Canada. I didn't know Canadian beer had so much more alcohol in it than the Coors or Bud I normally drank.
I had 4 beers in an hour and a half so when I left the bar I felt fine, by the time I got pulled over I was feelin no pain. Luckily the cops were nice enough to pull my license for 24 hours and help me get my car to the hotel rather than haul me in for an official DWI.
The bad thing about drinks like this is they are marketed to younger people who probably don't have much experience with drinking. They ad caffine to suppress the depressive nature of the alcohol so you end up with a wide awake drunk who doesn't know when to say when.
They are todays wine coolers.
As for the warning label? Please, remember when you were a kid? high alcohol content was what made you buy it in the first place [:p][:D]
Clamping down on something that a reasonable person can use safely for the purpose of protecting unreasonable people from potential danger is what gets us all the protections we now have, like gun bans/restrictions. You may think something like "well, we aren't talking about guns in this instance." but someone else trying to restrict guns when someone makes the argument that I'm making may think "well we're not talking about alcohol in this instance."
The item we're talking about consists of water, sugar, alcohol, flavorings, and caffeine, all of which are proven to be common items that all people, meeting age restriction requirements (for their imposed safety), are allowed to own and consume. There is precedent for other products that contain the same ingredients, such as the popular club drink vodka and red bull, that are legal to sell and consume, and are marketed to young people. Some of those people at the club will get raped, mugged, beaten, or drive drunk regardless of what they were drinking.
So you want to party in private without hiring a bartender, spending more on drink components, or want to try more flavors based on the same theme.... Some people will abuse it, most people will not. After reading the initial post I wanted to try this stuff out just to see if I liked it... Not so much now that I hear that they have stripped the caffeine out of it.
Don
mass passed a law that states you can't sell alcohol and caffeine in the same container unless the caffeine is naturally occurring(i.e. coffee brandy).
Four loko answered by removing the caffeine and it then was legal to sell again.
Theres nothing note inherently wrong with this over any other booze. It all get you drunk. This just does it more efficiently. Is it marketed for the younger crowd? For sure, but they drink too. Why not market too them?
Saying one type of booze is better than another is ridiculous. None of it's a particularly good for you and in the end there isn't much difference between 5 beers and 1 loko. Is somebody wants to get that drunk, they're going to do it. Beer, loko, bourbon, vodka. It all gets you too the same place.
Wow, I agree with Kev!
How is this any different than that Wild Turkey Honey liqueur crap?
I don't know what plans the two young men had, but I know how young men think. Maybe I am a little cynical, suspicious, paternal and protective, but not knowing the people involved, I couldn't just let them be "good Samaritans," if that is indeed what they were. Once she came to my attention, she was my problem to deal with. Had they made it to suitable shelter, and had the young men taken advantage of the young woman's condition, I would have borne some of the responsibility. My little girl Gabby is that age, and if she were in similar circumstances, I would appreciate someone stepping in and making sure she got through the next few hours safely.
Four Loko is not the only one. There are a gang of these drinks around, usually in big, colorful cans. I found one, open, in the console of a car on a traffic stop. At first glance, I thought it was an energy drink. (I think they cans are designed that way on purpose.) But I picked it up and saw that the drink contained alcohol, and my driver was under 21, so he got an appointment to see the judge.
Adults are responsible for their minor children and everyone is responsible for their own choices and actions.
If there is a market for it, good for the manufacturer for finding it.
If it proves harmful for someone because of idiocy, so be it.
Government has no legitimate role in it at all.
Not my idea of a good time, but I'm not a college age kid anymore.
It is bad stuff, aimed at a particular demographic, just as Hi-Point pistols are. I don't want to ban either just because some consumers misuse them.
I disagree with LT's point about the government role and parental responsibility.
A 17-year-old is legally an adult for criminal prosecution. His behavior is not his parents' responsibility. An 18-year-old is legally an adult for signing contracts, buying property, voting, etc. and again, his parents are not responsible. However, one must be 21 to buy and consume alcoholic beverages, so how can a parent be responsible for the behavior of a 20-year-old drunk?
There is government regulation of alcoholic beverages, and there has been for a long time. Whether that is as it should be is not the point. It is what it is.
I don't believe it is possible to brew a "beer" with 12% alcohol, unless it is by a very expensive double-brewing or triple-brewing process. I believe that Four Loko and drinks of that ilk are "fortified." That is, pure grain alcohol is added to the flavored malt beverage to attain the desired proof level. MD 20/20 is a "fortified wine," with its proof adjusted with alcohol.
I never meant to imply that the product should be banned. The market place should dictate that. I just pointed out that it is bad stuff, and related a bad story with a happy ending.
It is bad stuff, aimed at a particular demographic, just as Hi-Point pistols are. I don't want to ban either just because some consumers misuse them.
I disagree with LT's point about the government role and parental responsibility.
A 17-year-old is legally an adult for criminal prosecution. His behavior is not his parents' responsibility. An 18-year-old is legally an adult for signing contracts, buying property, voting, etc. and again, his parents are not responsible. However, one must be 21 to buy and consume alcoholic beverages, so how can a parent be responsible for the behavior of a 20-year-old drunk?
There is government regulation of alcoholic beverages, and there has been for a long time. Whether that is as it should be is not the point. It is what it is.
My point was a simple one. It was to draw two general and broad categories of responsibility.
Note that I stated that EVERYONE is responsible for their OWN choices and actions. This was the 'catch-all' and the underlying bottom-line of the point I was making.
That is all.
In a free society, people make ill-conceived, foolish and stupid choices. They must be made to live with the results of those choices and actions, sans someone else bearing their burden.
As to government having a role or responsibility in such matters, that is and always will be an ethical and philosophical divide.
Individualism vs. Collectivism.
One is what we were founded upon, the other is what we are now governed and largely peopled by. One fosters responsibility, self-reliance and innovation, the other inevitably leads to totalitarianism.
It is clear where most people stand, including me.
This is the fork in the road where we have taken the wrong path and abrogated individual liberty and individual responsibility to a large degree.
That was the bulk of the argument used when the Intratec DC-9 pistol became banned. It was said to be inexpensive and marketed to criminals. Now I have to pay a lot more for a typical gun because nobody wants to be priced low enough that they could be accused of marketing to an unsavory demographic.
quote:Originally posted by nunn
I don't believe it is possible to brew a "beer" with 12% alcohol, unless it is by a very expensive double-brewing or triple-brewing process. I believe that Four Loko and drinks of that ilk are "fortified." That is, pure grain alcohol is added to the flavored malt beverage to attain the desired proof level. MD 20/20 is a "fortified wine," with its proof adjusted with alcohol.
Beer is available in the 12% and up range and is called barleywine. It's pretty classy stuff though. You won't find it in the same room as four loko.
A specialty beer was brewed (by John Adams brewing?) that has 26% or so alcohol by volume. It was not distilled, just brewed carefully.
Since whiskey is called beer before it is fortified by removing unwanted materials does this make it a "fortified beer"?
Fortification and distillation are two very different processes.
"Chock beer" is not beer in the usual sense of the word. It is the brewed product that is made into whiskey by the process of distillation.
Fortification and distillation are two very different processes.
I wasn't really being serious... Did I use green text incorrectly? I am not being a smartalec about this. I thought I read a comment at one point stating that green implied sarcasm or something of the sort.
My real message was that assigning a multi-purpose item like beverages and handguns to 'certain demographics' makes me cringe. It's rampantly used as a divide and conquer strategy to quickly demonize and eliminate things that good, law abiding people also enjoy.