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Muscle Cars
offeror
Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
Took my son to a show today at University of Notre Dame. Here's a small sample. It was a decent show, but there was a lot of rice and junk there too. I think there was some M*par and F*rd as well, but I didn't notice.[:D]
Brandon with a '70 Judge
'69 w/455HO
Heroes truck
Detail from Heroes truck
Coupl'a trucks.
Camaro
Brandon with a '70 Judge
'69 w/455HO
Heroes truck
Detail from Heroes truck
Coupl'a trucks.
Camaro
Comments
There were some amazing horsepower numbers on rather inexpensive cars by today's standards: 389, 395, and well above 400. Another interesting fact: there was NO model of the Mustang that was ever a muscle car -- except Carroll Shelby's cars. Dodge got into the act with the Road Runner, Challenger, Charger, Olds with the 442, and Chevy with the Chevelle SS, and the GTO continued to lead the way, finally coming out with The Judge in '69 (my personal favorite, with the pointed front end poly bumper). It was a great, informative show, and DeLorean was among those interviewed. I hope they re-run it -- must have been the History Channel. I'd love to have one of those GTOs again (my girlfriend used to drive one), but OH the gas money it would cost -- they got about 9-10 miles to the gallon.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
Indeed. The AMX would have been more correctly paired against the Shelby in terms of power, but in the ads, the standard Javelins and Mustangs were placed side by side as competitors.
The thing about muscle cars is that this was at a time when some of them still didn't have power steering, and certainly not brakes that could keep up with the engines, or certainly not transmissions that could handle all that unbridled torque if you popped the clutch. I knew more than one kid who bought a brand new Mopar Road Runner (Hemi?) and dropped the tranny the first week. Mopar seemed particularly prone to that, but my evidence is purely anecdotal. My friend Tony had a Shelby 350, I believe a '69, and paid $4200 off the showroom floor. A couple of my friends had the Novas with the big engines, and one had a Camaro that would run out of gas after a single night's cruising -- or less. There was also a front-wheel-drive Toronado with a big engine, as I recall. But the kids loved the little Darts and Road Runners and Novas in my neck of the woods, for the most part.
The funny thing is, a few years ago I had a Toyota Supra with a twin turbo six cylinder engine -- a 6 would have been laughed at back then -- and it had a "mere" 320 horses, but could do 0-60 in four seconds (just like a Ferrari) thanks to some extra aluminum parts and lightweight engineering, up to and including using hollow carpet fibers to save weight. And it got decent gas mileage. Still, there was something about that 69 olive green 'goat.'
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
No, but that is about the top end of the size cars they were talking about. I already mentioned that the RoadRunner was in the group. I'm not sure about the Coronet. Obviously, this was the show's premise, not mine, but I do think it makes sense. The first few years of the GTO, it looked like a typical midsize boxy sedan to me. The Charger, the RoadRunner, Chevelle, all were boxy midsize sedans -- take a look at BULLITT. This size vehicle (Charger, RoadRunner) is included in the muscle car category, being about equal in size. Of course, as far as BULLITT goes, he must have had a tricked out version of the Mustang, because according to this program the Mustang, even the 289, did not qualify as a true muscle car -- not enough big-block horses. I think I did read that they did some work under the Mustang's hood in that movie -- extra carbs, or something.
Anyway, it was a thoroughly entertaining TV documentary, and worth catching if you can find it. (I don't judge, I just report....)
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
were quite muscular
with the 427,428,and
429s.
By the way,doesn`t anybody
like Super Bees?
.218
The little-known truth about muscle cars is that they were not very fast by modern standards. Immense nose weight, archaic suspensions (leaf springs and live axles!), lousy tires, wide transmission ratios, and barn-door aerodynamics sapped performance. Most musle cars would be lucky to crack 7 seconds to 60 in their prime. Certainly they could 'burn rubber', but they are no match for even a lowly modern 'performance' car like the Mustang GT, let alone really fast stuff like the various go-fast BMWs, Mercedes, Porsches, and late model 'Vettes.
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
Dr.Evil
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
greetings, the vettes in 63 had the 375 hp 327s , it was concidered a muscel car, that was two years before the gto hi-po package. it was also the first year of the glass vettes. respt submitted dads-freehold
if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
dad-freeholder-- Not sure what you mean about the '63 being the first of the glass 'Vettes. They've always had fiberglass reinforced plastic bodies. I'm not sure what the latest ones are all about with some of the newer plastics and different body panels. My '62 had, other than the bright work and headlight rims, two steel body parts which were the gas fill pipe cover and the air scoop for interior ventilation.
I had a few back in the younger days, my favorite was a 1969 Chevy Nova L-78 396/375 HP with rockcrusher 4 speed and headers. It was the fastest car I ever owned. Butternut yellow with black bench seat interior,rubber mats, no carpets - was special ordered. That thing would fly! It had a bad habit of slinging fan belts at high RPM's, and I had to change out the pulleys for deeper ones. Never was beat on the street - of course I didn't pick on 426 hemi's or 427 'vettes!
These days, I have a couple of collector cars: a 1957 Thunderbird currently under a ground up bare metal restoration, and a 1981 Delorean. The Delorean is a stainless steel car; I should say a fiberglass monoque with stainless panels. My D/L is a garage queen, has 10K original miles, and with a Volvo V-6 and renault automatic transaxle is mostly show, and not much go. I modified the engine internally and increased the HP from 130 to about 175. The car is too original to add a blower, or changeover to a V8. I drive it a little, but it mostly sits under a car cover.
The T-Bird is a factory 275 HP model, and all the running gear is out while I strip the complete underside of the car. The top side has already been stripped, rear end rebuilt and painted -- I've got about 1/2 of the frame & bottom of the body stripped to bare metal.
I work on them as I feel like it, they're good therapy for me.
"De Oppresso Liber"
0-120 might be interesting.
Them ducks is wary.
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
1. 1966 427 Cobra 12.20/118MPH (4 speed)
2. 1966 427 Corvette 12.80/112MPH (4 speed)
3. 1970 Buick GS Stage1 13.38/105.5MPH (auto)
4. 1968 427 Corvette 13.41/109.5 MPH (4 speed)
5. 1968 Hemi Charger 13.50/105 MPH (auto)
6. 1969 Hemi Road Runner 13.54/105.1 MPH (auto)
7. 1969 Hemi Charger 500 13.68/104.8 MPH (4 speed)
8. 1971 Hemi Super Bee 13.73/104 MPH (auto)
9. 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.70/101.2 MPH (auto)
10. 1965 Pontiac Catalina 2+2 13.80/106 MPH (4 speed)
The other 40 are slower cars, I only listed the top ten.
When I first procured a copy of this, it was to be a BS eliminator-
I was surprised to see a Buick GS in the top 3.
For those that are interested, it was in the November 1984 issue.
"De Oppresso Liber"
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS GEAR SOURCE
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05@116 V10 450 six-speed 3.07 MM 8/97
2 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/65
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette 12.8@113.8 LT5 350 375 six-speed 3.45 MT 4/90
4 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 four-speed 3.36 CD 11/65
5 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 four-speed 4.10 SS 6/69
6 1997 Hurst/Firebird 12.99@103.11 350 350 automatic 3.42 MCR 4/5 97
7 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CC 11/69
8 1992 Viper RT/10 13.1@108 488 V10 400 six-speed 3.07 CD 7/92
9 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.55 CC 11/69
10 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 four-speed 4.10 HC 6/69
11 1997 Corvette 13.20@109.3 350 LS-1 345 six-speed 3.42 MT 5/97
12 1997 SLP Camaro SS 13.20@108.8 350 LT4 330 six-speed 3.42 MT 2/97
13 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.20@107 350 350 six-speed 3.54 CD 6/91
14 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 four-speed 3.70 HC 5/68
15 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
16 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
17 1996 Camaro Z28 SS 13.46@106.48 350 LT-1 310 six-speed 3.42 MCR F/M 96
18 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 4.10 HR 2/69
19 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
20 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
21 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
22 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 four-speed 3.91 HC 9/69
23 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
24 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
25 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 four-speed 4.56 SS 4/68
26 1995 Mustang Cobra R 13.67@102.82 351 300 five-speed 3.27 MCR A/S 95
27 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 four-speed 3.23 HC 2/64
28 1996 Corvette GS 13.7@105.1 350 LT-4 330 six-speed 3.45 RT 2/96
29 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
30 1987 Buick GNX 13.70@102 231 Turbo V6 300 automatic 3.42 HR 4/87
31 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
32 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
33 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
34 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 four-speed 3.36 CL 8/71
35 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
36 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
37 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 four-speed N/A HR 3/68
38 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 four-speed 3.55 HR 5/67
39 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 four-speed 3.91 MT 1/71
40 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 four-speed 3.54 CD 4/66
41 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 four-speed 4.10 SS 4/69
42 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
43 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
44 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 four-speed 3.91 SS 9/69
45 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
46 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 four-speed 4.10 HR 1/62
47 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
48 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
49 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
50 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 four-speed 3.91 HR 2/70
Legend: CC=Car Craft, CD=Car and Driver, CL=Car Life, HC=Hi Performance Cars, HR=Hot Rod, MCR=You have to ask?, MM=Mopar Muscle, MT=Motor Trend, SS=Super Stock
0-60 in 4 seconds may seem like nothing to you, but with a speedometer that topped out very realistically at 165, my Supra twin turbo with the lo-rise tires and traction control was quite enough car for your favorite method, regardless. Oh, and it cornered at one full G. Frankly, with admin's pointing out the fact that we've gone from gross to net horses since then, I'm thinking my Supra's 320 horses probably put it easily ahead of some of the old numbers. Wish I'd kept it, but the payments were killing me at the time. I'd have another though.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
I took delivery of MY 1964 GTO in Dec. of 1963 after ordering
it in Oct. It ran good, set a class record at Beeline dragway
in jan 1964 114 in 13.84. I traded a 1955 chevy convertible in
got 300.00 for the chevy. Replaced the moter with a 427 L72 for
more power in 1967.The horsepower demise in 1971 was brought
about by federal clean air act of 1972. All cars by 1972 had to
run 91 octane gas (remember sunoco avv gas and chevron in the white pump 110 octane). Compression was cut to 8.5 and no more REAL hosses.
My toy now is a 1969 El camino with a 427.
Dads-- check out corvettemuseum.com for the correctness of your statments
By the way, didn't we decide "muscle cars" did not include true sports cars? That leaves out many more foreign than domestic models. Of course the list Jungle Jim provided includes more than just muscle cars, if you count the Viper and the Corvette, and maybe the Cobra 427.
A lot of muscle cars were not "performance" cars, in terms of having handling & braking to match their pure straightaway big-block acceleration. They were all about burning rubber, pure power -- and dropping trannies. Even the muscle car experts on the TV show admitted their braking was mediocre by today's standards, and I guarantee a Dart, a Super Bee -- not exactly ground effects models, if you know what I mean. The muscle car was a breed unto itself -- and not a sports car, necessarily.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - offeror on 09/23/2002 02:23:24
The category "muscle car" applies only to the GTO-type vehicles: big engines in mid-size cars built from 1964 through the end of the era in 1972-1973. (Some of the "muscle cars" continued with low compression engines.) Before that, the full-size cars were the ones with the biggest engines. (One can argue that some of the 1963 Chrysler products were "mid-size," but they were the standard Plymouths and Dodges of the time.)
I believe, without researching, that the Century Buick actually began in the 1930s. It got its name from being able to go 100 miles per hour. (It had a straight 8 with dual carburators.) The name was brought back in the 1950s with the Roadmaster engine in the Special body. They were VERY fast. Of course, Lincoln won the Mexican Road Race in 1952 through 1954, taking at least the top two or three spots every year. Motor Trend declared the Lincoln America's fastest car in 1953.
So there were no "muscle" Mustangs? What about the High Performance 289-271HP ("K" code) Mustangs of 1965 (1964 1/2) through 1967? What about the Cobra Jets from 1968 through 1971? What about the Boss 429 Mustangs?
I need to get to bed so I cannot take the time now to get into the rest of this discussion, but cars are my real passion, ahead of guns even.
Where the heck did you get your statistics & information? Where do you come up with "NO MUSTANG MUSCLE CARS", except for Carol Shelby creations? Dude, let me share a bit of my past with you, as some one who was there and drove and owned some of these so called muscle cars of the late 60's, & early 70's.
I used to own a 1968 GT 500 KR, Shelby Mustang, and I had several friends who owned other so called muscle cars. One was a stock 1967 Mustang GT (not a fast back) with the same 427 side oilier engine that was in the A/C Cobra's, a 1969 Mustang Mach 1 with a underrated 335 horse power 428, drag Pac with a shaker hood scoop, a stock 71 Boss 351, a 1967 Dodge with a 426 wedge, and a 1970 Chevelle SS 454. Out of all these vehicles the only two my Shelby couldn't beat in a 1/4 mile run was the 67 Mustang, and the 1969 Mach 1. Sometimes the 426 Wedge could hedge me out when it would stay together long enough, but most of the times it was parked with the hood up! The slowest vehicle when it was stock was the Boss 351, which Jungle Jim list higher then the 69 Mach 1 on his list. The Chevelle was OK, but a bit slow when stock. It was later built to be a 10 second 1/4-mile slingshot, but everywhere it went after that it was on a trailer. Remember, one only had to take the Chevelle 454, the Boss 429, and many other de-tuned big block motors, and give them a little TLC, only to make them out right ballistic missiles. Also consider today's value of some of the so-called non-muscle cars that are mentioned. Yea, that Shelby is worth a bunch, and I wish I still had it, but I would love to drive that 1967 Mustang GT Today.
By whose definition of a muscle car are we using here? Surly not JUDGE COLT's "Muscle car only applies to GTO type vehicles". That's about a bunch of hogwash if I ever heard it. The term muscle car like the term "Assault Rifle" is an arbitrary name of distinction given to whatever the user wants to apply it to. Like the old English garbage that was spread around about America not having a true sports car except the A/C Cobra. Not everyone could own a Cobra, but most could get their hands on a Corvette, or a Mustang. Yea they couldn't handle to save their exhaust systems like a piece of European junk, but they were made as straight lineshooters, not road rally racecars. Besides, wasn't it Ford who sent Carol Shelby to Lemans (Spelling?), just to give that Italian a run for his money? And he did too, they had to change the rules to keep Ford out!
Jungle Jim,
How did the 70 Chevelle SS 454, make your second list at #9, when it wasn't even in the top 10 on your first list? As some one who witnessed it first hand, that 71 Boss 351, should not be at #39, and over the 69 Mach 1 with a 428.
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
I didn't make the lists, I just posted them.
The first list didn't have the L-78 Nova like I had in the top 50, the second one did - I don't know why. I was there too, and remember how strong the Mustangs were. Supposedly, all these stats were done from actual road tests. For those that feel left out, here's Muscle Car Magazine's listing of what they think were the fastest, old new & import:
50 FASTEST MUSCLECARS
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS GEAR SOURCE
1 1966 427 Cobra 12.20@118 427 8V 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/65
2 1966 Corvette 427 12.8@112 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.36 CD 11/65
3 1969 Road Runner 12.91@111.8 440 Six BBL 390 4-Speed 4.10 SS 6/69
4 1970 Hemi Cuda 13.10@107.12 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CC 11/69
5 1970 Chevelle SS454 13.12@107.01 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.55 CC 11/69
6 1969 Camaro 13.16@110.21 427 ZL1 430 4-Speed 4.10 HC 6/69
7 1968 Corvette 13.30@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.70 HC 5/68
8 1970 Road Runner 13.34@107.5 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 SS 12/69
9 1970 Buick GS Stage I 13.38@105.5 455 Stage I 360 automatic 3.64 MT 1/70
10 1968 Corvette 427 13.41@109.5 L72 427 425 4-Speed 3.55 CD 6/68
11 1969 Charger 500 13.48@109 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 4.10 HR 2/69
12 1968 Charger 13.50@105 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.23 CD 11/67
13 1968 Road Runner 13.54@105.1 426 Hemi 425 automatic 3.55 CD 1/69
14 1973 Trans Am 13.54@104.29 455 SD 310 automatic 3.42 HR 6/73
15 1969 Corvette 13.56@111.1 427 L88 430 automatic 3.36 HR 4/69
16 1969 Super Bee 13.56@105.6 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 4.10 HR 8/69
17 1969 Boss 429 Mustang 13.60@106 Boss 429 375 4-Speed 3.91 HC 9/69
18 1970 Challenger R/T 13.62@104.3 440 Six Pack 390 automatic 3.23 CC 11/69
19 1970 Torino Cobra 13.63@105.9 429 SCJ 370 automatic 3.91 SS 3/70
20 1968 Biscayne 13.65@105 427 L72 425 4-Speed 4.56 SS 4/68
21 1964 Polara 500 13.70@107.37 426 4V 365 4-Speed 3.23 HC 2/64
22 1969 GTX 13.70@102.8 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 MT 1/69
23 1969 Dart 440 13.71@105 440 4V 375 automatic 3.55 CC 5/69
24 1971 Road Runner 13.71@101.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CC 1/71
25 1971 Cuda 13.72@106 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 SS 4/71
26 1971 Corvette 13.72@102.04 454 LS6 450 4-Speed 3.36 CL 8/71
27 1971 Super Bee 13.73@104 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 12/70
28 1968 Hurst/Olds 13.77@103.91 455 W-30 390 automatic 3.91 SS 8/68
29 1970 Hemi 'Cuda 13.78@101.2 426 Hemi 425 automatic 4.10 MT 9/69
30 1968 Firebird 13.79@106 400 HO 335 4-Speed N/A HR 3/68
31 1967 Corvette 13.80@108 427 6V 435 4-Speed 3.55 HR 5/67
32 1965 Catalina 13.80@106 421 6V ? 4-Speed 3.42 CD 3/65
33 1969 Super Bee Six Pack 13.80@104.2 440 Six BBL 390 automatic 4.10 CD 7/69
34 1971 Boss 351 Mustang 13.80@104 Boss 351 330 4-Speed 3.91 MT 1/71
35 1966 Satellite 13.81@104 426 Hemi 425 4-Speed 3.54 CD 4/66
36 1969 Coronet R/T 13.83@102.27 440 4V 375 4-Speed 4.10 SS 4/69
37 1968 Cyclone GT 13.86@101.69 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 8/68
38 1969 Nova SS 396 13.87@105.1 396 4V 375 automatic 3.55 HR 7/69
39 1969 Shelby GT-500 13.87@104.52 428 CJ 335 4-Speed 3.91 SS 9/69
40 1969 Cyclone Cobra Jet 13.88@101.7 428 CJ 335 automatic 4.11 MT 1/69
41 1970 Olds 4-4-2 W-30 13.88@95.84 455 W-30 370 automatic 3.42 CC 11/69
42 1962 Corvette 13.89@105.14 327 FI 360 4-Speed 4.10 HR 1/62
43 1969 Barracuda 13.89@103.21 440 4V 375 automatic 4.10 SS 8/69
44 1962 Catalina 13.90@107 421 4V ? 4-Speed 4.30 MT 5/62
45 1969 Mustang Mach I 13.90@103.32 428 CJ 335 automatic 3.50 CL 3/69
46 1967 GTO 13.90@102.8 400 RA 360 automatic 4.33 CL 10/67
47 1970 Trans Am 13.90@102 400 RA 345 4-Speed 3.91 HR 2/70
48 1970 Torino Cobra 13.99@101 429 4V ? 4-Speed 3.91 MT 2/70
Legend: CC=Car Craft, CD=Car and Driver, CL=Car Life, HC=Hi Performance Cars, HR=Hot Rod, MCR=Muscle Car Review, MM=Mopar Muscle, MT=Motor Trend, SS=Super Stock
Fastest Modern Domestic Cars
These are the fastest domestic modern cars in the quarter mile.
FASTEST MODERN DOMESTIC CARS
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS SOURCE
1 1997 Viper GTS 12.05@116 V10 450 6-Speed MM 8/97
2 2002 Corvette Z06 12.5@114.9 LT5 350 405 6-Speed MT 2/02
3 1990 ZR1 Corvette 12.8@113.8 LT5 350 375 6-Speed MT 4/90
4 1997 Hurst/Firebird 12.99@103.11 350 350 automatic MCR 4/97
5 1992 Viper RT/10 13.1@108 488 V10 400 6-Speed CD 7/92
6 1995 ZR1 Corvette 13.1@112.0 LT5 350 405 6-Speed MT 8/95
7 2001 Corvette Coupe 13.1@109.1 LT5 350 350 6-Speed MT 3/01
8 1997 Corvette 13.20@109.3 350 LS-1 345 6-Speed MT 5/97
9 1997 SLP Camaro SS 13.20@108.8 350 LT4 330 6-Speed MT 2/97
10 1990 Pontiac Firehawk 13.20@107 350 350 6-Speed CD 6/91
11 1996 Camaro Z28 SS 13.46@106.48 350 LT-1 310 6-Speed MCR F/M 96
12 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 13.5@107.4 350 LT-1 325 6-Speed MT 12/99
13 2002 Camaro Z28 SS 13.5@107.3 350 LT-1 325 6-Speed MT 12/01
14 1995 Mustang Cobra R 13.67@102.82 351 300 5-Speed MCR A/S 95
15 1996 Corvette GS 13.7@105.1 350 LT-4 330 6-Speed RT 2/96
16 1987 Buick GNX 13.70@102 231 Turbo V6 300 automatic HR 4/87
17 2001 SVT Mustang Cobra 13.8@103.3 4.6L V8 320 5-Speed MT 12/01
Imports
For comparison sake, here are a few import 1/4 mile times. Note: Only cars with MSRPs less than $50,000 are on the list, so no exotics. Remember, these are supposed to be affordable.
FASTEST IMPORT CARS
# YEAR/MODEL ET/MPH ENGINE HP TRANS SOURCE
1 2001 BMW M Roadster 13.1@107.6 3.2 I6 315 5-Speed MT 4/02
2 2001 BMW M3 Coupe 13.2@106.9 3.2 I6 333 6-Speed MT 8/01
3 1993 Toyota Supra Turbo 13.4 3.0 V6 Turbo 320 - -
4 1995 Mitsubishi 3000 GT VR-4 13.5 3.0 V6 Turbo 320 - -
5 2000 Honda S2000 13.8@100.5 2.0 I4 240 6-Speed MT 2/00
6 1995 Nissan 300ZX Turbo 13.9 3.0 V6 Turbo - - -
7 1993 Mazda RX-7 R1 13.9 - - - -
8 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX 14.2@94.4 2.0 F4 Turbo 227 5-Speed MT 1/02
9 1995 Toyota MR2 Turbo 14.8 - - - -
10 1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX 14.9 2.0 I4 Turbo - - -
11 2002 Acura RSX Type S 15.1@94.7 2.0 I4 200 6-Speed MT 1/02
12 2003 Mitsubishi Eclipse GTS Spyder 15.2@93.0 3.0 V6 210 5-Speed MT 4/02
13 1997 Acura Integra Type R 15.2 1.8 I4 190 5-Speed -
14 2002 Audi A4 Quattro 15.3 3.0 V6 220 6-Speed MT 2/02
15 1997 Acura Integra GS-R 15.5 1.8 I4 170 5-Speed -
16 2002 Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec-V 15.6@90.3 2.0 I4 175 6-Speed MT 4/02
17 1999 Honda Civic Si 15.7 1.6 I4 160 5-Speed -
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-50fast.shtml
"De Oppresso Liber"
Edited by - Jungle Jim on 09/23/2002 10:36:59
I don't know your age, but your correct, any kid whose parents would fork out around $4500 could have a car back then that would turn on an average 13 seconds in a 1/4 mile. And that's before a new Holly carb, and headers. It's also one of the reasons why Automobile insurance cost sky rocketed back then, and it's also the reason why Detroit was forced to lower the compression ratio so drastically after the 1971 year.
Jungle Jim,
WOW, just reading through this list brings back a lot of memories. I have ether driven, ridden, or raced against almost every one of these older cars at one time or another. I have to admit that back then in my heathen days I probably spent a lot of time in the back seat of a lot of these vehicles too. None of their back seats were designed for what we used to put them through, but a lot of fun was had. Things sure changed when I started driving a truck! My back didn't hurt as much.
That old 426 Wedge I spoke of was dropped into a 4X4 Dodge truck back in 1977, and is still running today. The only other vehicle I spoke of that is still intact is my old Shelby. I sold it to a Houston City Police Officer back in 1976 for $5000. I thought I made a good sale???? He stated he got tired of trying to catch it, so he bought it, and restored it.
I wonder if there are any of us who have every driven an original 1967 A/C Cobra 427? That is my dream car, and always has been. I have seen them, touched them, driven their kits, and made their models, but I never even so much a road in a real one. What I would give to just drive one around the block? I had a friend in JR HIGH SCHOOL whose brother had a puke green Cobra with a 289, and that car was a screamer. It started my desire to have one. It got smashed off the sea wall in Galveston back in 1969. The old 1967 Mustang GT was always a sleeper car, didn't look real fast except for the GT hood scoop, and the fat tires on the back. We could never get headers on it so we took a cutting torch to the fender welds. Something an 18-year-old kid should not be allowed to mess with, because we really trashed the front end of that car. We ended up welding a straight axel front end from and old F100 truck under it after we got finished, but hey, we got those headers on. That rocket ended up turning a 10.32 second 1/4 mile after we completely wrecked its usefulness as a streetcar. What I would give just to have back some of the old stock parts we would toss away?
Trinity +++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
the GTO was the first muscle car -- i.e., the first small car in which a huge engine was an option, since Detroit did not, as a matter of policy, put their huge engines in their smaller models before then.
This definition of "muscle car" is meaningless. The vast majority of either "Fastest Fifty" listed cars would be disqualified because they do not fit this arbitrary definition. I also think attributing John Delorean with origination of the muscle car concept only works if you narrow the definition to a big engine in a small sedan. Question is, who says? History Channel producers?
I remember a Wings TV episode where the best airplane in a variety of classes was to be decided. One of the categories was "Attack Bomber". The show's producers determined that the P-47 (originally designed as a pursuit/fighter) was the best in class, and this above the A1 Skyraider. The absurdity of this in light of facts about either plane removed any notion of credibility this show may have had.
And so it is with the muscle car program noted above. What is a "small sedan"? What is a "huge engine"? Is the step from a standard 1964 Lemans 326ci to 389ci any greater accomplishment than going from a 1963 170ci Falcon to a 260ci Sprint?
Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
Edited by - DancesWithSheep on 09/23/2002 12:40:52
Guns only have two enemies: Rust and Liberals....
All I know is that I enjoyed the hell out my Nova!
Before that, I had several '61 Falcons; the last one I shoehorned a Corvette 300HP 327 with T-10 4 speed and 10 bolt rear end, and it was a sleeper/screamer. No one expected that little Falcon to run off and leave 'em.
As a young soldier, I couldn't afford the big buck cars, and didn't have anyone to buy them for me, so I had to build them. (with a lot of help from people that knew how). Always wanted a Hemi Coronet, but had to settle for the L-78 Nova because I could afford it.
By the way, I had the Nova for about a year, was transferred to California, and drove it there from Texas. I blew a head gasket somewhere in the desert, and limped into LA. No warranty, of course-
and it was going to cost $500.00 to repair, so I decided to trade it off. Got a 1970 911T Porsche which was one of the worst mistakes I made. Never could keep those damn webers adjusted.
Trinity, like you, I'd like to ride in a real Cobra. I have driven a friends 427 side oiler kit car but it has a jag rear end, and some other stuff that wasn't originally on the car. Still; that thing hauls! I don't think there's anything that can compare to the roar of a cammed dual quad side oiler throwing you back in the seat on hard acceleration!
Jim
"De Oppresso Liber"
Mine was the "Bobcat" from Royal Pontiac. 4 speed, 3 carbs, all that "go fast" stuff. And it did. There are only 2 cars that I've owned that I wish I still did. That '64 Goat and my '56 Austin-Healy 100-4.
Well...maybe my '36 Ford 5 window coupe and possibly my '50 Ford Conv.
Mudge the dreamer
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!