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Cowards and leeches - multiple citizenships
Rafter-S
Member Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
In another thread where multiple citizenships was being discussed, one of the replies read:
"I'm also a multiple citizen (GBR, CAN and USA) and keep 3 valid passports (gotta keep your options open). I became a US citizen so I could own firearms."
My question is: if these countries, where people have multiple citizenships, went to war with each other, who's uniform would be worn and which countries would be betrayed?
Personally, I don't think multiple citizenships should be allowed, especially if you are an American citizen. People need to pick where their allegiances are and take a stand. In my experience, only cowards and people looking for opportunities to suck the system dry want the "back door" of another citizenship.
"I'm also a multiple citizen (GBR, CAN and USA) and keep 3 valid passports (gotta keep your options open). I became a US citizen so I could own firearms."
My question is: if these countries, where people have multiple citizenships, went to war with each other, who's uniform would be worn and which countries would be betrayed?
Personally, I don't think multiple citizenships should be allowed, especially if you are an American citizen. People need to pick where their allegiances are and take a stand. In my experience, only cowards and people looking for opportunities to suck the system dry want the "back door" of another citizenship.
Comments
I am married to a Canadian, She holds duel citizenship, Why should she give up her Social Insurance in canada that she paid into for years, and other benifits.
Automaticaly I am entitled to the benifits of a citizen of canada, because canada offers spousal benifits even if your not naturalized in their country.
My wife is neither a coward or a dredge on the US, and I take affront to you suggesting such Idiotic ideas about people that hold duel citizenship.
Rather than condemn people, ask as to why?
I think your rather insecure of fearful of things you dont Know about.
LR
The "...keep your options open" was intended facetiously.
BTW: What system am I "sucking dry"? I pay my taxes and vote pro-gun all the way; I'm doing my part.
I'm still keeping all 3.
"The powers delegated by the proposed constitution to the federal governmentare few and defined, and will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace negotiation, and foreign commerce"
-James Madison
But that is not the point, some people due to the RED tape and all the Bull$$$$ have to accept duel Citizenship,
What Uniform would you wear if the USA was to trounce on you.
I beleive that right is right and wrong is wrong, and will stand up for right everytime.
LR
Your statement: "Automaticaly I am entitled to the benifits of a citizen of canada, because canada offers spousal benifits even if your not naturalized in their country."
That word "entitled" speaks volumes. Most liberals, democrats, and system suckers use it a lot. Can you imagine what a hard working Canadian thinks when he reads your statement? He works his tail off, pays taxes, and someone else who didn't contribute a thing, other than marry one of the women, gets the benefits he paid for.
About the only other countries I would say that about are Australia and New Zealand, despite some differences we have with them. I certainly wouldn't say it about Israel, Mexico, France, etc.
And dont tell me it doesnt happen.. it does.. more times than enough.. See the hospitals in Canada cannot refuse to treat anyone.. its against the law.. so they treat Americans.. and any other person of any other country, and when the bill is refused, Canada pays it..Just a little thing Canada does for citizens all over the world in that country..
Dont assume that Americans use any of the benefits they are entitled to because of marriage to a Canadian citizen.. MOST DO NOT... The ones that do "reap" the benefits have worked and paid into the system, the same as any Canadian would do..
Never assume anything.. Take a look at the first three letters of assume,, that is what happens when you make assumptions.
One woman's opinion
Here in the states no such law exists. I maintain health insurance for myself and my wife, out of pocket. Costly, and receive minimal care at best. So damn much corruption in the medical field here, IF you aint got insurance, your out of luck.
My last six months in Canada I worked, paid taxes, on everything.
upon reentry into the states I could have filed and got back all the taxes, including sales taxes, but did not do so, so I guess I contributed a little bit to the economy up there, just the same as I do here.
And if you want to go on a crusade, try the illegals in this country, given welfare the minute they set foot here, green cards, take jobs that Americans could have.
How about the Mexicans that send their pregnant women here illegaly, give birth to their child which becomes an american citizen, go on the welfare roles, and remain here, then bring the rest of the welfare burden in with them.
At least the ones with the duel citizenship have done it legaly, and I know many, and they are not a burden on American Society, as they all work, and contribute.. END OF SUBJECT
On the other hand if you are a born citizen of another country, and Naturalize as an American Citizen, normally you birth country, still recognizes your citizenship, by right of birth.
Of course it doesn't surprise me, that there are those that want to keep their options open so they can claim free benefits this country gives to anyone who can prove he is destitute, so I suppose an american who worked all of his days outside this country, could come back into the country at age 65, and file for SS, and if he claims to not having any income or assets in country would be entitled to a nice stipened, and then he/she could retrurn to his host country, and live confortably ever after.
In fact, you don't even have to be a citizen to qualify for SS benefits, nor even conribute to SS, to draw a hefty check, illegal aliens even qualify, I new 2 old people who collected more than my father (got from SS after contributing 46 years) they never worked a day in this country.
So, the way I see it very few will be able to collect from what used to be SS, when they are ready because of the way the system has been misshandled all these years.
As for Canadians, I don't trust the French Candians, they are just like the French in their way of thinking, they are socialists to the core, and I wouldn't consider them our allies, they whistle a different tune than the one they did after WWII, they are INGRATES, or whatever.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
You don't have to be a dual citizen to have to deal with this question. Think about how many Americans in the Civil War had to take sides and then possibly have to fight a family member who was on the other side. They dealt with it, I will too IF and when the time comes.
If one cannot have dual citizenship if you are an American born citizen, then how is it so many of them have dual citizenship?...
Gunpaq..
No offense was taken.. I work, pay taxes, just like any other citizen..I know there are a number that bleed both systems.. but thankfully most of the ones that have dual citizenship do not..and of course there are citizens that are "blood suckers" of their own country..
One woman's opinion
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
Dual citizenship with them funny talkin canukies I don't really have a problem with but I do have a problem with pedro and the gang coming up here and forcing themselves upon us. There are many that say immigration must remain open like it was in the 1800s and early 1900s, just let the gates open so that all may enjoy our benifits and welcome them with open arms, horse pucky! Immigration needs to be controlled very aggressivly, we cannot keep supporting all the other countries problems. We cannot handle all of the Mexicans coming up here everyday, there are just way to many of them. They are wrecking our quality of life, they are raping our tax dollars, they are slowly taking us over. You all know I drive truck, I have been all over this country and back again and what I have seen in alot of the western states is saddening. When you are in southern kal you may think you are in Mexico. Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and alot of other states are infested with them. Spanish is becoming a mandatory second language here, well I'm sorry but I was born here, and I'm not learning spanish just because a bunch of illegal immigrants want me to. If you go to NYC, the capitol of immigration you will find the majority of the immigrants make every attempt at fitting in, but you go to the south western states and the immigrants force their lifestyles and language on us, and if we speak out against it we are labeled as racist.
Like it was mentioned by a couple other posters, we should be worrying about the Mexican invasion a hell of alot more than a few funny talkin canukies who wish to have dual citizenship. Canukies don't cost us near as much as Pedro.
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
I still think that people who apply for multiple citizenships only care about the "benefits" and "entitlements" thay can receive...and in most cases didn't have to make sacrifices for. Allegiance is a foreign concept to them.
Edited by - Rafter-S on 06/18/2002 10:50:07
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
Turbo,
If one cannot have dual citizenship if you are an American born citizen, then how is it so many of them have dual citizenship?...
Gunpaq..
No offense was taken.. I work, pay taxes, just like any other citizen..I know there are a number that bleed both systems.. but thankfully most of the ones that have dual citizenship do not..and of course there are citizens that are "blood suckers" of their own country..
One woman's opinion
To answer your question, there is another way one can have dual citizenship, and that is being born to american parents in another country, automatically makes you a citizen of this country, regardless of where you were born. Providing of course your birth was registered in the host country, if, born on a military reservation or base in a foreign country it is unlikely this person would have dual citizenship.
The ones I was referring to are the ones that naturalize themselves to other countries.
As for Pedro, he wouldn't come here to this country looking for work, if there was no work available.
Americans want the best of two worlds, slave labor at slave labor prices, and don't mind breaking the law to get it.
The problem has been around for 2 hundred + years; the promise of employment to uneducated illegals able to make upwards of $10.00 for jobs americans wouldn't stoop to, makes the risk of getting your hand slapped mighty tempting.
Another thing, this liberal idealogy, of pro aboriton or as the politically correct liberals like to call it pro-life and the womens right to chose; is helping the american family, lose ground in the numbers of the populace.
As one south of the border writer put it, family planning to the americans is killing thier own children in the womb, because of bad timing, we don't, because we believe children are a gift of God!
Of all things this accusation by foreigners, against our country ought to be the one that stings the most, because it is true, it is estimated that over 45,000,000 fetus have been aborted willingly by their mothers since with the encouragement of their males accomplices since, wade vs roe in this country.
If one added these number to our population today this countries citizenry wouldn't find itself being outnumbered by the hispanic population.
It's no wonder, why the ole american family is going to lose it self indentity and country to illigals and all other destitute legals from other nations.
Socialism is inevitably the future of the country, the poor will continue to increase, while the working person finds himself displace by those willing to work for less.
Businesses are driven out of business, or over seas by our own governments policies, and with the help of the unions and Democratic Party.
At least the Republican Party is Pro-Business. All other parties are wishful thinking.
.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
Edited by - turbo on 06/18/2002 12:11:04
Betrayal of allegiance to ones government, especially the constitution of the United States (ARTICLE 111 section 3) Treason shall consist only in levying war against them or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
This is taken from the Constitution:
I know of no person holding a dual citizenship that has complied with the above.
Before you call someone a traitor, know what one is..
TRAITOR-TREASON
Betrayal of allegiance to ones government, especially the constitution of the United States (ARTICLE 111 section 3) Treason shall consist only in levying war against them or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.
This is taken from the Constitution:
I know of no person holding a dual citizenship that has complied with the above.
Before you call someone a traitor, know what one is..
Classic,
Is this a quote? out of Art III.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
>From open-cast to open range: in the West, miners are closely matched by
ranchers in their uninhibited enjoyment of federal subsidies. Ranchers
graze their livestock on both public and private lands. The difference
is that private landowners make money from the practice; the government
does not. The 1997 Economic Report to the President quoted estimates
that grazing fees for federal land averaged $1.20 per cow (or per five
sheep) per month between 1965 and 1992, compared with $11.20 for private
grazing in 11 western states. In 1996, according to Green Scissors, a
coalition of environmentalists and free-market economists, grazing fees
recovered only $25m of the $77m it cost to manage the programme.
Subsidised grazing occurs on 270m acres of American land, an area the
size of California and Texas combined.
This was taken from .*******************************
HOW SUBSIDIES DESTROY THE LAND
The Economist - 12/13/97
*******************************
Now who is leeching off the system?
Ranchers
graze their livestock on both public and private lands. The difference
is that private landowners make money from the practice; the government
does not. The 1997 Economic Report to the President quoted estimates
that grazing fees for federal land averaged $1.20 per cow (or per five
sheep) per month between 1965 and 1992, compared with $11.20 for private
grazing in 11 western states. In 1996, according to Green Scissors, a
coalition of environmentalists and free-market economists, grazing fees
recovered only $25m of the $77m it cost to manage the programme.
Subsidised grazing occurs on 270m acres of American land, an area the
size of California and Texas combined.
These LEECHES cost the taxpayers 52 million Dollars
Perfectly healthy people too damn lazy to work, drawing money and Food Stamps.
Campaign against the people in the Grocery store with five baskets of the finest foods, (to be paid with by food stamps) and in the sixth basket the two cases of Beer that they always seem to have money for!!!!!!!
Do you know anyone with Duel Citizenship to be on Wellfare?
I think not>
My two children were born in a german hospital, they are registered german citizens, When brought to the US as I was in the military, they are automatic citizens of the US, They have duel Citizenship by birthright, Are you calling them cowards and leeches??
My daughter owns two Floral, wedding shops in North Carolina, and my Son is a computer programer for the Government at Fort Brag. where does the LEECHING come from?
It was on Traitors, leaches, and persons with duel citizenship.
Some of the biggest leeches on our society are the Politicians, but that gets away from the original post that Duel Citizens are Cowards, and leeches..
When anyone can post evidence that these people are cowards and leeches, I dont mean made up, or an Isolated case, as there is an exception to everything..
I know many Canadians that live here in Florida for 6 months and Canada for six months, They contribute millions to the economy of Florida,
And as for Ilegal aliens taking up jobs, Well if the Lazy people would get off their Butts and take these jobs, (OH no that is beneath me to take a job picking Strawberries) then there would be no need for the aliens to come here looking for work. The Profiteering SOB,s that hire ilegal aliens should be attacked.
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
or country I only care about liverty in the place I am living ,if I don't like it I have 2 choices ,fight or go to another place ,some choose the 2 alternatives while others one or none at all... (aquiessense).
JD
Poor choice of destiny make thoose that for upholding the law go against the "LAW".
By the way if aliens are removed ,Who is goin to work in the sweat shops?,Clean the toilets?, attent the fast food slave slops?,wash your car?, and buy all the get rich scheems you put up in the internet.
multy-level marketing,Amway etc.
HEHEHE
Poor choice of destiny make thoose that for upholding the law go against the "LAW".
& VOTE in our elections. (Remember Florida)
Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
Well your pedro is doing pretty good, he might consider unionizing, and becoming president of his own local, help his buds out.
I bet his wage rate is still under union wage minimums, in the region.
"The great object is that every man.... everyone who is able may have a gun." Patrick Henry
I had to apply for him to obtain US citizenship because my wife had German citizenship at the time.
There is no possible way for him to give up his Chinese nationality/citizenship insofar as they consider someone holding another country's citizenship as only an "Overseas Chinese." Oddly enough, he ended up majoring in Far East Asian subjects and speaks, reads, and writes Chinese. He don't look it, tho.
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
I would just as soon be a citizen of Mexico as Canada. No thanks!
SIG pistol armorer/FFL Dealer/Full time Peace Officer, Moderator of General Discussion Board on Gunbroker. Visit www.gunbroker.com, the best gun auction site on the Net! Email davidnunn@texoma.net
So you really aren't concerned which side a multiple "betrays" as long as it's not the US; and that's all good.
Remember what has been said about assumptions, not everyone who claims multiple citizenships will pack up and leave. There have been many Americans who have left the US when the going got tough, so you don't have to be a multiple to "betray" a side.
It indeed used to be the case in the US that you couldn't hold dual citizenship (except in certain cases if you had dual citizenship from birth or childhood, in which case some Supreme Court rulings -- Perkins v. Elg (1939), Mandoli v. Acheson (1952), and Kawakita v. U.S. (1952) -- permitted you to keep both).
However, most of the laws forbidding dual citizenship were struck down in 1967 by the US Supreme Court. The court's decision in this case, Afroyim v. Rusk, as well as a second case in 1980, Vance v. Terrazas, eventually made its way explicitly into the statute books in 1986; up till that time, the old laws were still on the books, but the State Department was effectively under court order to ignore them.
When I applied for US citizenship, I asked the Canadian consulate in New York about keeping my Canadian citizenship. They sent me a copy of the code pertaining to this issue and it stated that I don't automatically lose citizenship when I become a naturalized American. I would have to go to an immigration judge in Canada and formally renounce that status. In fact, when I renewed my Canadian passport, I had to show proof of legal residence in the US. Since I gave up my green card upon naturalization, I sent them a copy of my US naturalization certificate and I still got my Canadian passport. I was born in England and my parents had me naturalized Canadian when I was a lad.
It is correct that when you're sworn in you renounce all previous allegiances, etc., however, your other nationalities may still remain intact, depending on the laws of those respective countries. The US gov't cannot confiscate your citizenship credentials of another country; those items are government property of those respective countries.
I did a little research and checked my passports. Since all passports have the same standardized format, they each have a note about dual citizenships. They read as follows (paraphrased): "The bearer of this passport is a (_____) citizen. However, a person may have the citizenship of more than one country at the same time. A dual citizen may be subject to the laws of the other country that considers that person its citizen while in that country's jurisdiction, including conscription for military service."
This note is found on p.5 of a US passport, p.3 of a UK passport and the inside back cover of a Canadian passport.
This is why when Rafter-S asked me which country I would betray, I replied "it depends". So, while I'm in the US, I would be obligated to serve the US and the other countries understand that.
Another thing about "keeping my options open" that Rafter-S took offense to. He assumed that I meant I would leave the country in a wartime situation. I was talking about if my company assigned me to work in Europe or Canada, I would have less trouble emigrating there IF I decided to go.
Hope this gives some insight into some of my other posts on this subject.