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snakes, wht did it have to be snakes.
jdb123
Member Posts: 471 ✭✭✭
i was out at the lease this weekend for some spring turkey hunting and i was down in some heavy brush focusing on a tom i knew was about to come into range when i heard a very loud hiss, looked down to see a 4' 1/2" western diamondback starting to rattle, he got into that classic rattlesnake strike pose and i had no choice but to blast him, what are some of the scenerios or first aid if bitten by one of these critters? also whats the best snake proof gear available?
Edited by - jdb123 on 04/28/2002 20:23:09
Edited by - jdb123 on 04/28/2002 20:23:09
Comments
Most folks say that since a rattler has a hemotoxin venom that you should report immediately to an emergency room. Most folks live through rattler bites is what I hear. In my case, that remain calm idea is out the window.
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Snakebite
OVERVIEW - Bites from venomous snakes in the United States are very rare. There are about 8000 such occurrences each year. A large number of those occur to those that work with snakes on a daily basis, such as zoo keepers, research workers and hobbyists who choose to keep venomous snakes at home. Another large portion of those bitten were trying to catch, tease, or kill a snake in the wild. Most other bites occur when someone steps on a snake and the snake bites in its own defense. Death occurs in less than 1% of the snakebites in this country, about 10 to 15 per year. One third of the rattlesnake bites are "dry" bites, in which no venom is injected.
PREVENTION - This describes the many way of avoiding the bite of a dangerous snake. Most of us will never come across a rattlesnake in the wild. However, there are certain people that tend to see them now and then. This could include telephone company field workers, ranchers, hunters, hikers, campers and others. These kinds of people usually plan snakebite prevention into their daily lives. (Keep in mind that most snakes are crepuscular and nocturnal and are not out during our active hours.)
Below are several guidelines for avoiding snakebites.
Wear appropriate footwear such as boots, chaps or high-top hiking shoes.
Step up onto logs or rocks rather than over them.
Don't place your hands on unseen ledges or into animal holes.
Don't turn rocks or boards over with bare hands. Use a tool.
Don't try to kill, catch or molest a venomous snake. Leave them alone.
Don't hike by yourself.
Learn what dangerous snakes in your area look like. Get a book.
Watch where you are walking.
FIRST AID - This describes measures taken in the field to minimize the effects of the bite of a venomous snake. Very few snakebite kits on the market offer much in the way of first aid. A kit with a strong suction device has some merit in the field. Many hikers and campers carry these devices with them. No snakebite first aid kit provides a cure. Treatment at a hospital should always be sought.
Below is a list of do's and don'ts when dealing with snakebite first aid.
Remain calm and inactive.
Don't make incisions over the snakebite.
Don't constrict the flow of blood.
Don't immerse a limb in ice water.
Use suction device or mouth to extract some venom. If performed within the first couple of minutes, this may help reduce the effects of the bite. This procedure should not be performed by someone with ulcers of the mouth or stomach.
Have another individual drive to medical care for treatment.
If you spend a lot of time in "snake country", locate a physician with snakebite treatment before hand, just in case.
TREATMENT - Steps taken at a hospital or other medical facility to counter the effects of snake venom is called treatment. The most common treatment includes the injection of an antivenin (or antivenom). Injecting small amounts of venom into a horse makes antivenin. The horse's immune system provides a defense against the venom. The horse's blood serum is then used in antivenin and given to human bite victims to counteract the effects of the bite. Only qualified medical personnel should administer antivenin. There are often side effects to be considered.
Treatment may also involve care given to relieve swelling, tetanus or local tissue damage. North American pit viper venom (rattlesnake, water moccasin, copperhead) is primarily hemotoxic, acting to destroy blood and muscle tissue.
Copyright c 1991 by American International Rattlesnake Museum
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Nasty snakes those. Could bore everyone with Habu tales from okinawa but I won't because they all start 'this is no sh*t' (see war stories thread).
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
But there is a execption to every rule..........Where the bite is or if its a child or elder......That sometimes changes the rules....But remember if its two of you.......and the "medic" does something foolish....well then theres zero of you............................
The main thing to do is remain calm , apply ice or cold water in a plastic bag to the bite.........And get to a hospital ASAP.......
coonass
the only good snake, is a dead snake. when i was younger living in NW pennsylvania, spent all the time i could in the woods, hi leather boots, & loose pants, hand gun with handloaded shot shell in the frist chamber.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
From what I understand When a member of a waggontrain got bit, He was left in a shade if possible with a companion or member of family, and water in most instances got very sick,and usually passed out. The body being the complex processing unit that it was would either, depending on the amt. of venom, the bite victim's individual's body chemistry, either gradually purge, or the victim would die, in which case the companion would either bury him, or in the case of survival
follow the waggon tracks until they caught the train. But I come from so far back, that I can remember appendicitis being called cramp-colic and a person either lived or died from it.
How Dangerous Are Rattlesnakes?
Only about one fourth of all snakes are venomous. Among the venomous snakes are those considered by experts to be highly dangerous and others that are of little concern as a danger to man. Those considered to be dangerous are so designated for several reasons:
Their venom may be highly toxic.
They may carry large quantities of venom.
They may live in close proximity to people.
They may be present in large numbers.
They may defend themselves more aggressively.
They may be agile or quick.
When they are being kept as "pets".
Medical facilities in the area may be poor.
They may have long fangs producing deep wounds.
Their color and pattern may hide their presence.
They may be active during the hours we are active.
They may be territorial or protective. (very uncommon)
Most rattlesnakes have relatively weak venoms when compared to the world's true vipers and cobras. Copperheads and water moccasins have comparatively weak venoms as well.
The Eastern and Western Diamondbacks are of concern in this country because of their wide distribution, their relatively large size (giving a greater striking distance - about one-third to one-half their body length), the deep puncture wounds they inflict, and their large amounts of venom. The Western Diamondback will also readily defend itself. The Mojave Rattlesnake is the most potently venomous of this country's rattlesnakes. The corral snake's venom is a potent neurotoxin but the snake is not considered particularly dangerous because of its demure manner.
Rattlesnakes will make every effort to avoid contact with people. We are far more dangerous to this secretive animal than it is to us. In almost every case, we are treading on the snakes' home territory when we encounter them, and in almost every case, the rattlesnake looses its life.
Many bites are the result of someone trying to capture, kill, or handle the snake, and a good number of bites occur to snake keepers, both private and professional. The bite is a defensive reaction and should not be considered an act of aggression. The rattlesnake's rattle offers the snake a means of communication, designed to warn larger animals of their position.
In the United States, humans experience about 8000 bites from venomous snakes each year. Of those, an average of 12 per year, less than 1%, result in death. Far more people die each year from bee stings, lightning strikes, or almost any other reason. Incidentally, one-third of all rattlesnake bites are "dry" bites, when no venom has been injected.
The rattlesnake's role as an important link in the food web far outweighs its potential danger to our well being. In fact, rodent born diseases are probably controlled to a great extent by rattlesnakes and other predators. Offer them respect, observe them from a safe distance, and then leave them to perform their valuable ecological function.
The only good snake is a live snake!
Copyright c 1991 by American International Rattlesnake Museum
Thanks for the informative posts. Living where venomous beasties of any sort are virtually unknown, most of my information was based on 'common knowledge' - and obviously most of it about as accurate as Sarah Brady's knowledge of firearms.
Come to Australia, When it comes to nasty bitey things that crawl we have 7 out of the 10 most venomous snakes in the world ( not to mention spiders and other things that give Ouch!)and no they dont just live in the bush, or outback or "Back of Bourke" and dont believe every thing that fool "Crocidile Man" tells you.
They tend to wander into residential areas at an alarming rate during summer, kill lots of cats and dogs who want to play with them (bad career choice) frighten the crap outta most kids and parents and keep a "full time snake catcher" busy on the western side of Melbourne Australia for most of the summer period. He finds them in the gardens of houses, new housing estates, along creeks and waterways and in short just about anywhere in urban areas.
We only lose one or two people every year or so and thats 'cos they didnt get to the doctor in time ( here that means real quick, 20-45 mins in most cases).
As a hunter/shooter they are an occupational hazard, have stood on three in my time, 1x Tiger snake (very toxic) 1x Black snack ( also very toxic) and 1 Brown snake ( very nasty piece of work and cousin of very deadly Northern Tiapan - Mucho Toxico "kill ya dead" kinda beasty this one).
Standard wear is High boots, thick socks, heavy pants (denim or heavier) - Same still applies sometimes they do zap you with venom and sometimes they don't.
With these snakes there is no waiting to feel faint or other cute ideas.
A Brown snake if it injects a full venom load has the venom capacity to kill 4000 sheep ( Yep you read right - Four Thousand)
So you can forgive us if we dont quietly lay down and wait for the "dizzy" spell to pass.
Interested in your treatment of Snake bite, we dont cut or suck,nor do we ice - we apply a broad pressure bandage from as high above as is possible and then down and over the bite site, immobilise the limb, and the victim as well,if possible and transport to hospital - (You try keeping still in the circumstances, I defy anyone)
Im a qualified Level 3 Industrial First Aid Officer - Snake bite treatment is a standard part of the training.
Every Hospital, doctor and nursing facility has poly-venom (one type does all bites)- they zap you with the stuff and if all things are equal and luck, your god and medicine are on your side you should be up and around in a couple of hours.
Just fascinated to read how you people deal with your little things that bite.
We very much obey the "if you dont know what it is or you think it might bite then dont touch" rule.
You learn from an early age here.
Q. What steps do you take if you stand on a snake?
A. Bloody Big Ones'
Just interesting to hear of your situation with these creepy crawlies.
Mudge the traveler
I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
I had watched many a show on the Discovery and TLC channels(redneck college class) that you should never turnicut a snake bite because the venom will deteriorate the muscle and the doc may have to amputate the limb. Question, do doctore have amputated limbs mounted and displayed on the walls at their homes?
I read recently that a lot of hunters who have bird dogs out West will carry a "Tazer" type stun gun device to shock the bite/wound area on their dogs if bit. There is supposed to be a chemical reaction to the electrical shock that breaks down the venom and stops it's effects. Couldn't say how it works on those big mean snakes down under though. Maybe someone should us it to shock some sence into the "Crocidile Man". Maybe then he would learn not to mess wth those things?
Trinity+++
"Train up a child in the way he should go, even when he is old he will not depart from it."(Proverbs 22:6)
Suffice it to say both were emptied....
Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed
If you are alone in the field and are bitten you have a real problem. Movement acclerates the blood/lymph flow and mobilizes the venom, so you are supposed to be carried. Best advice is be careful and see the snake first. Do not use ice, or ice water, ever. There are indications that some of the components of the venoms are cryophobic and are driven deeper into the tissues when ice or cold is applied.
Hedog, I know you know a lot more about this subject than me.Before they were taken off the market I bought a Snake DR.A stun gun that is only 25000 volts.Used it on a dog, worked great.Got hit on the wrist by a hornet.Knocked the P out of me,But no swelling.Would like to hear more from you about not using it.Since I cant take the horse serum,I have been counting on this.
A unarmed man is a subject.A armed man is a citizen.
Dogs frequently recover from snake bite with little or no ill effects, and bites are often "dry," meaning no or little venom was injected (In the country of Colombia, about 80% of all snake bites are dry bites). I don't know why it would help a wasp sting, unless the stun gun hurt so bad you didn't notice that little sting any more.
Don't risk your life on a stun gun Varmit, I want to keep you around here a long time. Your point that one must be careful with antivenom is well taken. Those sensitive to horse serum can go into anaphylactic shock, so it should not be administered in the field except in very extreme cases. Also, testing for sensitivity to horse serum can sensitize some people to it, so the testing is not done.
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
I have the greatest respect for HeDog.So I don't really know what I would do now.If all that info in the magazine article was correct,It would seem to me they would be using it in hospitals now
A unarmed man is a subject.A armed man is a citizen.
KIMBER: Pistol du jour
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
.218
Did sombody say somethin` about hornets?
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
Hedog is very knowledgeable in this field. If he tells me not to use the stun gun, I'm not. It is a heck of a lot easer to get over a bee sting,Than a stopped heart.I have experienced both, Trust me the bee sting will always be my first choice.
A unarmed man is a subject.A armed man is a citizen.
As for electroshock and snakebite, I am not sure how much more strongly I can say it. It does not work. I am aware of the article referenced earlier, and to put it simply, it is garbage. As I said before, the real testing was done a decade ago under controlled conditions, and was shown to be ineffective. Several years ago, I was working a rattlesnake roundup here in NM, gathering data on the animals brought in. (Beekeeper the primary reason you don't see really large rattlesnakes in many areas any more is rattlesnake roundups) One of the organizers of the roundup got bitten by a 4.5 foot diamondback and was shocking him self with a stun gun while we tried to convince him to get to the hospital (he was selling stunguns at the round up). A bit later he was under the hood of his truck jerking and jumping with the shocks. When he collapsed, an ambulance was called and he was taken to the hospital where he received 18 vials of antivenom. He did survive, but not because of stunguns. This is another Voo Doo remedy that could cost you your life. I value Varmit and don't want that to happen to him, and Allen, I would sooner keep you around too. You may have something to contribute here. While it is indeed true that not everything the AMA does is medicine and all of their reasons are not medical, please trust me on this one. I am a professional herpetologist who works with venomous animals on a daily basis (well, I miss a few days if there is a gunshow) and stay up on the medical literature. I also personally know two of the top authorities on snakebite treatment and have discussed this with them at some length. I really have not vested interest here. In truth it will not wreck my life if you treat snakebite with a stungun or ginkobiloba for that matter, but it will wreck yours.
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
If you look at the world from a snakes point of view it looks very different from your point of view. No snake, no matter how long it is, is very tall. Their chin is on the ground. You look like a giant. They have no legs or claws so can not run or fight. All they can do is bite. I submit it is not meanness, but fear that impells a strike.
Edited by - He Dog on 04/30/2002 13:52:13