In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

I don't want to sound psycho but......

SkydiveSkydive Member Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
I had posted this in another forum and was told this was the forum to approach.

I will admit I am a little paranoid about riots and terrorism, but this was my post. I would love to get some feedback.
Let's get hypothetical. I am comfortable that a .357 would stop someone who broke into my home, but lets say I wanted to be VERY precautionary and wanted to be prepared for all out mayhem. Whether it be riots or a bunch of terrorists over running the town.

Keeping in mind that current laws will not allow me to get a machine gun, what would you guys have in your home for protection? Or lets get real hypothetical, you had to fight to get your country back?



Every so often, I like to stick my head out the window, look up, and smile for a satellite picture.
«1

Comments

  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gilbert USAS-12

    Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would have my AR a shotgun and probably a few pistols. The AR I have 8 magazines for, the shotgun is for low light or front man clearing, the pistols because they are light and I love 'em. I might even suggest a hunting rifle just in case you have to head for the hills!
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    1st, Get to know Jesus if you don't already.
    2nd, Register to vote and exercise that Freedom.
    3rd, Buy a 12 gauge pump Shotgun and practice with it.
    4th, Buy a .22 rifle and practice with it.

    As a "new member" these are the recommended firearms for you. If you have a .357 that will surely hurt a guy hit center of mass. But if the masses are getting handgun close, refer to #1

    A question for you, Why would you need a Machine Gun? and, From whom are you fighting to get our country back from?

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • rameleni1rameleni1 Member Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I also own a .357, very nice gun. What you are talking about here, I would use my 12 guage, with rifled slugs. I have heard allot about them not being accurate. I shot some at the range last month for the first time. No scope, at 100 yards, hit a steel 15" wheel every time. A .450 or so grain slug, at 1600 fps, your dead.

    Rameleni1
  • boeboeboeboe Member Posts: 3,331
    edited November -1
    You can't have too many guns. Figure a good round number to own is 50. When you get to that point, you'll probably have one for every conceivable occasion.

    Narrow it down to five, I'd say:

    .308 battle rifle
    12 gauge shotgun, pump will be fine
    Combat handgun of some type, such as .357, .45, or similar
    Concealable handgun of some type
    .22 rifle for small game

    After those, start looking at sniper rifles, special purpose weapons (including AK47, AR15, etc), special purpose game-getters, and those that are particularly attracvtive (whatever that may be to you). Don't overlook something in .50 BMG.


    To err is human, to moo is bovine.
  • REBJrREBJr Member Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Get an AK in 223 (5.56x45) made by Hesse Arms. You get the best of all worlds, the near indestructability of the AK action, combined with the ability to utilize enemy ammo (and their mags as well due to the ar to ak adapter provided) Because if'n it comes down to it, you'll be opposing a 'friendly' govt (and NATO as well). You'd want to be able to utilize all resources. Be sure to stock up on M855- I't would come in handy in this hypothetical situation.

    Nothing very, very good or very, very bad lasts for very, very long.
  • SkydiveSkydive Member Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This was the kind of feedback I was looking for.

    I have a S&W 357 Mag and quite a bit of ammo
    I also have a .22 rifle that I have been working with at 100yrds at a ton of ammo.
    I've never fired a shotgun so I seek advice on that and I would feel more comfortable with an assult rifle.

    Who am I fighting against. Who knows? After South Central, Terrorism, and our overall vulnerability? Your guess is as good as mine. I just want to be damn ready if it happens.

    Again, I may be paranoid but I'd rather be prepared that standing there with nothing.

    Every so often, I like to stick my head out the window, look up, and smile for a satellite picture.
  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with Skydive, there is a fine line between Paranoid and being prepared. If you don't think that there will be battle lines drawn in our country between civilian and government you are naive. Nowhere in the Bible does it say there will be a USA in the end times, but leave it to us to be too confident in our government. A year ago noone thought it would be possible for someone to attack us on our home turf, well guess what you were wrong. A machine gun is a waste of ammo unless you have a M-60 or other large casualty producing weapon. Remember one shot one kill! 20 years ago if you went to Russia they were as cocky as we are today, tell me where are they now? In Civil war! So before you laugh at people for wanting to be prepared get off your high horse and take a peak at reality!
  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    1. Tactical Vest 2. Mossburg 500 shotgun-8 round mag-20" barrel 3. Ruger PC-9 with Ghost Rings (for quick Human acquisition) 4. Ruger P-89 5. Hi-Cap Magazines-at least 12 15 rounders and a couple reliable 30rounders 6. Bullet Proof Vest

    In Jax, FL. just today and the days not over;
    Six Murders and a Murder Suicide.
    I'm not Paranoid, I'M READY!



    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!


    Edited by - RugerNiner on 09/26/2002 22:55:46
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
  • gunpaqgunpaq Member Posts: 4,607 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Better know your neighbors and organize or you will be shooting each other. This is getting a little scary. How about a militia airborne, I'll donate the old C182 and all my old military rigs? I have a series of hanguns and carbines of the same caliber that would be handy in such a scenario along with a pump shotgun and a long range rifle. Why not match your .357 handgun with a .357 Marlin/Winchester/Rossi lever action carbine for up to 150 yard range?

    Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Skydive, I agree it's a good thing to have guns. It's a better thing to have them and be proficient with them. The best is to have guns be proficient and of good judgment of when to use them. The chances of you as a normal citizen of 22 (wag) years old will have a slightly less than zero chance of taking up arms against the US Government. Again, the best insurance against this is VOTING. And volunteering to help those politicians that support the 2nd amendment.

    mkirkland, Please refer to number 2, again, that is where the battle is fought.

    Lets see, when was the WTC bombed by terrorist using the truck in the parking garage? So why should the WTC attack of 2001 surprise anyone? The use of planes slated for Trans continental flights as weapons did surprise me. There was a genius to it and I hate them for it.

    About going toe to toe with our government, tell me anyone here, what is it your going to have to advance on and kill even a Bradley fighting machine with? After all they do have "large casualty producing weapon" and will use them. (see Waco)

    Someone with an AR, pistols in every pocket a shotgun and ALL the ammo they can hoarded will still need to refer to #1.

    Russia 20 years ago was known as the USSR, a communist country. Today thanks to our government (read Reagan) they are a fledging Democracy of sorts with growing pains which was expected.

    Last, I don't care for horses even Shetlands, and I refuse to peak at reality I'll boldly stare at it and prepare for it.

    The lever gun suggestion is a great idea. Plus if used as self defense and you ended up in court, "Why it's the same kind of rifle John Wayne used" you attorney would claim. There you go, your out eating Ice cream.

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, well before we turn this place into a lebonnon, we should know who (whom) our enemy is likely to be. any thoughts? then what do you know about this hypo/enemy and how is it likely to operate. again any thoughts? sure you can spend thousands on weapons and ammo and they will be conficated when they pry them from your cold dead fingers, or most probably be used as evidence against you when they surround and arrest you on some bs charge, (here i speak from experience). now i'm not saying don't arm yourself, but be smart when you do and know who it is that's going to be breaking your doors down. if this place does become a lebbonon you will spend more time foraging for food and water than engaging and enemy... respt submitted dads-freehold

    if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
  • mballaimballai Member Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    A lot of this was brought up before the turn of the current century. One should always be ready for the unexpected evil event(s). I would say be ready with a good supply of ammo, and all other basics for survival.

    Three Precious Metals: Gold, silver and lead
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Make sure 911 is on the speed dial of your telephone.

    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
  • thesoundguy1thesoundguy1 Member Posts: 680
    edited November -1
    Welcome skydive!
    The scenarios you make mention of is a large part of the reason for my growing collection of arms and ammo.
    dads- We are not completely sure who our advisaries MAY be.But if you take a look at who our government has p!$$ed-off in the last Thirty or so years...
    1.Nearly every Central American nation.The involvment of the CIA in tampering with the governments,elections, and economic systems of these countries for the last 40-odd years,has created a lot of mistrust amongst our closest neighbors.This has also fostered a well-spring for the communist ideology in these largly poor,and frequently corrupt,nations.
    2.Nearly every Middle-Eastern nation.Our undying support for Israel,
    no matter what kind of military action they are involved in, no matter how many UN resolutions they, the Israelies,violate,has created some hardcore hatred for us.Also our manipulation of the region's politics(remember the Shah of Iran?)has added to the image of "American Imperialism".
    3.South-East Asia. Viet Nam, Cambodia. Lyndon Johnson's war.Again CIA
    screwing with the geo-political climate of these nations.
    4.China and North Korea.Idealogicly different from us, but also harboring a lot of anger for us.In a recent news story, I read that a lot of people that survived "The Rape of Nan-King", are still hoping for payback to the Japanese for their war crimes.The Chinese did not get the chance for war crime tribunals,to the extent that Europe saw.
    A lot of war atrocities in China,by the invading Japanese, went ignored by the west.Consequently, who currently provides most of Japan's national security from foreign invaders?The United States does.
    We also provide for the defense of Taiwan, the tiny democratic island nation off the coast of mainland China.A nation comprised of people who fought the communist Chinese revolution.
    There is host of domestic groups that we need to be careful with as well.
    Most of these countries,with the exception of China, probably alone could not put-up a viable offensive against the U.S., but the possibility of several of these nations,sharing a common interest in the destruction of the U.S., pooling their resources, along with the willingness of the starving former super powers of Russia and China,
    freely selling arms and military technology to anyone with the $$$,
    creates a very hostile invironment for the American people.
    With the poor control of our borders,there is a possibility that an invading,and occupying army, may already be here!
    Skydive, get a least one good assault style weapon, at least one good 12 ga. shot gun, and at least one good pistol.Then buy ammo in quantities.Once you've done this, repeat the process.One more assault style weapon,etc.
    My apologies to everyone if I sound paranoid but, history repeats it's self.We are King of the Hill.And as history has instructed,
    there is jealosy, and envy, toward any one in that position.Multiply that with the train-wreck we call "foreign policy", and the sum of this equasion, makes me believe we need to fight to keep ,and frequently exercize our 2nd amendment rights


    www.waveformwear.com
    The new wave in free expression.
  • 96harley96harley Member Posts: 3,992 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    5db, Excellent! Now on to skydive with my advise. A good Daisy .177
    caliber pump gun. Go for the eyes. Don't hesitate at a groin shot either. Dig a moate around your house and fill it with gasoline and used motor oil. If they get that close throw a road flare into the moate. Toe to toe with tree huggers and perverts won't be that difficult because they hate violence.

    "Join the Baby Fur Seal Club and take a swing at life"
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You need to be able to substain yourself FOOD , water, energy.....
    you need to secure an area and CONTROL IT call it perimeter ,get logistics on all ,scape routes alternative refuges and important, communications with people on the same boat ,group protection to secure resources .....group work to gain survival needs and recover
    from the emergency, its easier OUTSIDE THE CITYS in secluded secured spots....

    Get all you can in alternate energy , manufacturing ,biology agriculture ,aquaculture , at the end KNOLEDGE will be more valuable than GUNS and guns without knoledge is worthless, only good for the cowards scape .....

    Knoledge rules !!!

    JD

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Interesting topic and responses. I keep .357 for home defense. Simple, effective and you don't have to disassemble it if the first round misfires. I don't expect to be in a firefight with Jamaican drug dealers. I will never be well enough armed to fight of the U.S. government (I hope to vote a lot of them out though), and I don't subscribe to the militia/survivalist view of life. There are worse things than being dead.

    It is facinating that we all love guns and shooting here, that is a common thread. The differences in how we use or prepare to use them is vastly different, and that is interesting. Nice thread Skydive!

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    5db- I'm not sure of the vulnerable areas of a Bradley, but an Abrams tank can be taken out if a big Molotov is landed on top of the engine. The VC had no armored fighting vehicles or air power and yet they stood up to a mechanized superpower.
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, allen g' the vc and more so the nva had the soviet made and supplied rpg-2 and 7's that could punch thru the armor of the apc's (zippo's) and the sides and back of the m-48's and 60's. the old $50 equalizer. to mkirkla'd it is so true the line between prepared and paranoid and the concept of civil disobience is not that far removed. to rug'r nin', remember this you may have to hump with your equipment so choose wisely, also you are going to need a cantine or two. i remember prior to the millinium i went to east tenn with my militia unit to hump the smokeys. the bullett proof vest was the first to go, then three extra ak mags (still had three), then the tac vest with an extra s&w 411 and ex tra mags. to thesoundg'y i agree that our government seems to anger more countries every year and has put us in a perilious position with the rest of the world, and as we have seen from 9-11 an attack can come from anywhere. my question is how do you prepare when everybody is a potenial enemy including our own government? to judg' dre'd you have a pretty fair grasp of the potenial of group survival, but not so much on group dynamics, what i mean is this, try and get yourself and 8 (friends?) to do a little experiment. without any out side stimulii try and spend 8 hours in a room together, to be fair the group should include at least two females and one minority, the ages should be from teens to 60's, and ecco for broke to well to do .i think you'll find group dyno is best on paper. where i agree with you is the statement about gun and knowledge and being outside the cities. respt submitted dads-freehold

    if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    allen griggs, I cannot dispute the tenacity of the VC (after all they shot arrows at helicopters) however the difference is time and location, they would strike to their advantage. In this scenario of defending yourself against a rioting mob or our Government,it would not be in a time or location of your choosing (i.e. Waco, plenty of arms, and willing shooters but no room to move resulted in dead defenders or LA riots happened in minutes, civilians caught off guard. The Korean shop owners taking up arms on the roof tops was a exception and a highlight).

    On the other hand if you are taking the fight to "them" on your terms, time and place and want to lob a "big Molotov" at any armored vehicle, refer to #1!

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,692 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    5db- You got one of the main words , tenacity. That and courage and the will to fight. In the winter of 1939 Russian invaded Finland. Russia had a modern mechanized army with tanks, air force, artillery. Finland had virtually no tanks or air force. Russia outnumbered Finland maybe 30 to 1, and remember, at that time was not encumbered by having to fight the Third Reich. Finland stood up to the Russian colossus, primarily with bolt action rifles and a lot of intrepid warriors. There is a documented case of a Finnish lieutenant attacking a Russian tank with a log. He jammed the log into the treads, stopping the tank. His buddy ran up from behind and tossed a Molotov cocktail {the Finns invented this term} onto the tank. As the crew came out the hatch they were gunned down.Finland fought Russia to a draw. Modern armor is vulnerable, if an Abrams was in a city or in the mountains, below a cliff, a Molotov could be thrown on to it. The Achilles heel of the Abrams is that it is a fuel guzzler, it gets something like 6 gallons per mile. So fuel depots could be attacked.
  • TheguncounterkidTheguncounterkid Member Posts: 224 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Dont forget training and information sources. A good book on how things work is a must! field manuals, cookbooks (not the food style) and referance guides are worth there wieght in a long term strugle. Learn how to make basic items without tools. May sound like a bit much, but I took a coarse on how to make longbows and arrows from scratch. Not only was it a blast, but i can make 70lbs bows from basic materials and be VERY accurate with them (took a nice 3x4 buck 2 years ago with a bow i made). Who here knows how to blow a bridge if the need arises? Distill alcohol (boy from the south dont answer that)? Knap cutting tools? How about snares and mantraps? Anyone can learn the basics with a few hours reading and some time practicing (please, not the bridge one)and I'll bet you will have fun doing so.
    Knowledge is power
    -Kid


    www.acebuyers.com
    Home sweet home
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    allen griggs , Tenacity will make up for a lot of things.

    I guess I'm a bit confused about defending ones property in the case of a riot and taking the battle to an enemy such as the Finns described. First, if the US government vs. the people started, I'd hazard a guess there would be MASS confusion and lots of folks trying to get to the country. Where by the country folks would start killing trespassers. So Urban dwellers could be a hazard to the enemy as you described but only for a season. I say this because if we sit on our butts and LET it come to that, then those in power of the US government will bring into play any and all force necessary to end the problem areas such as Russia has and will continue to do with that that problematic little republic Chetz....sp. Which brings me to another point, the average Russian trooper is NOT enthusiastic about killing fellow Russians. I doubt American troopers would be eager to kill fellow Americans.

    Skydive, Another thing, the reason them other boards didn't want your question, is because they can't take the heat!

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There's an old saying that you're only paranoid if no one's out to 'get' you. I'll let you be the judge of that in your case.

    As for me, I have, I think, the right mix of testosterone, caution and courage, or at least temerity. At least I like to think so. Like my dog, my instinct is to evade while continuing forward, rather than to turn and run. That has so far served me well, and has had no worse consequences than to cost a couple road hogs some insurance money from their own, not my, agencies.

    At home, there is nothing quite like the 12 gauge, either pump or semi-auto, for spreading out a lot of firepower across a large area in a short time. Rifles and handguns are very good too, but they drill holes, not "rat holes." It is perhaps easier to cover an entire doorway with a 12 than a pistol of any caliber, both because of pattern and because barrel length = better tactical accuracy in point-n-shoot scenarios.

    I have a number of handguns I won't go into here, as well as a 12-gauge with a selection of ammo including shot from #8 to #1 (15 .30-cal. pellets per shot) and slugs. I also have a .30 carbine and an AKM type 56S with LOTS of filled mags.

    Am I paranoid? Only if no one would or could ever come for me. I prefer the Boy Scout motto -- be prepared. Today's paranoia may be tomorrow's life-or-death scenario. I don't kid myself that I'm sure to win in the end of a sustained battle, but I'm not very likely to go alone either, even by ambush. I feel better knowing I'm not among the sheep.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Some good suggestions here for Skydiver seems we've gone from defense to offense and changed the scenario a bit but before the US vs. US Gov. thing ever happens there is going to be several elections. Any support for voting?

    To me, though it might seem to be a waste of time it matters. Remember Florida. If we gun owners are being vigilant by preparing to fight and defend our rights should not the voting booths reflect this interest?

    If ya'll vote, I'll hush my mouth. If'n ya don't, then stay on the porch.

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • cbxjeffcbxjeff Member Posts: 17,637 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I got here late. You have a number of good suggestions. For the home, in a normal problem (and by reading the Indy paper, yes, I can call it that) my Mossberg 590 w/pistol grip. Just chambering a round discourages all but the real serious or crazy. Plus you don't have to be a good shot. At my age, I should turn in my army sharpshooter medal! 357 will stop anyone, but you have to be in good shape to fire one repeatedly and still score. I prefer a 9. A good rifle. My AR will outshoot my eyes, but my AK might feed better after I pick it up from the lawn. Remember we aren't talking the range here.

    All out meyhem by yourself, your dead. You can take out one hel* of a lot of the bad guys though.

    Country back? Have a M1 and a file handy. 15 minutes and you are in full auto. Maybe others too, I only know about the M1. We don't worry about the ATF in this case!



    cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
    It's too late for me, save yourself.
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well for group dynamics I use the Israel secret service system ,never take females to a mission and asigning tasks properly , there is something called "mitigation" on group dynamics from the henpecking to the wolfpack theoretics I know them all, that is part of the logistics preparations and contingency planing ,in emergency you have to be selective in choosing the group you command ,you choose unwisely you can end with a bullet in your back ,you have said it...
    IT'S SURVIVAL...... Life of others depend on YOU and YOU depend also on others so the proper dicipline must be set and mantained...

    But it will take a book as big as a Bible to explain here ......
    JD
    (COMMANDER DREAD)
    Shalom!

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    I doubt American troopers would be eager to kill fellow Americans.


    Remember Kent State? Waco? Ruby Ridge? I wouldn't bet my life for one minute on such "fellowship".

    Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
  • mkirklandmkirkland Member Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree Dances if a guy can kill a woman holding a baby(Ruby) or fry a dozen unarmed women and children(Waco) Why wouldn't the sheep believe the Gov. and shoot an armed (you and me) fanatic. Remember the CIvil War? Americans sure did do a good job of killing fellow Americans. I do vote but it seems like common sense isn't being used anymore. In cities the majority of people are being brainwashed into a liberal state of mind. When it comes to voting numbers count and it seems conservatives are losing their voice. What does a family in middle America with their two kids car and jobs have on a family on Welfare with six kids? Thats three to one odds and when those kids get old enough to vote do you really think they are going to be conservatives? Voting is very important but the scales are unevenly proportioned.
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings again, to danc's w/ she'p, right on ,just because we share a common ancestry and language doesn't mean the fed's (of any stripe) or state guards won't fill you full of lead (usually for little or no provacation). to the judg' dre'd , first the world view of the mosaad, won't work in the survival senerio, first the object of survival isnot first strike capabilities it is to survive by any means. two , to assume that only men will be in any one group is to be quite naieve. as i stated i believe you will be ingaged in food and water gathering than engaging an enemy, there fore the weapons will be more for defence and food, and should be chosen wisely.the reason that we lost in viet nam was not only congress fault, but our tacical use of the high ground , by that i mean we lost because of the same reason the french lost at dehn behn phu. we tried to defend areas that could not be defend and resupplied except at great perial and loss. to assume that the same tactic will sucede in the future is frutile. unless you can meet and enemy man for man you must be smarter than him and destroy his resupply and beat him with attristion, as it says in the lil red book. respt submitted dads-freehold

    if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DancesWithSheep, Point well taken. However, I would not find myself in these two situations.

    Kent State - Violent Rioting - Shooters, Army National Guard
    Ruby Ridge - Chopping shotgun barrels under 18" - FBI

    Waco - Is the only situation mentioned where US Gov. (again FBI) under William Jefferson and Killer Reno had zero cause to serve the warrant in cattle trailers and APC. The Gov. claimed drugs were being manufactured allowing the military to get involved. There were several things going on at that compound that drew attention to them, one being lots of machine gun parts being bought but no class 3 Dealers. Then the claim from Killer Reno that babies were being sexually assaulted, (so lets burn them.). I am in no way offering any excuse for the Gov. actions in Waco. The FBI acted heinously, following directions based on lies. I HAVE NOT read ANY first hand reports from ANY military personnel that were involved in that action. If you have please provide source. I do not believe knowing what they know now, that any of the military guys were proud or happy to conduct that operation. Maybe someday we'll know the rest of the story. All I do know somehow Klinton got elected and allowed it to happen.

    mkirkland, You are absolutely right, the odds are against the right. But I'm of the opinion that is where the battle must be fought. Sounds like I'm in the same boat as you but with three kids. The schools try to sway them to the left and we pull them to the right. So we must make up the difference by sharing our sport and educating the masses when ever we get a chance. Sorry, I'll get off the soap box.

    I feel that since 9-11 there has been a subtle yet positive shift of the American populace to the right. Klinton got good marks because of the economy. The economy stinks right now but Bush, this week was at 70+ approval rating. This my friend is good news.

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DancesWithSheep, Point well taken. However, I would not find myself in these two situations.

    Kent State - Violent Rioting - Shooters, Army National Guard
    Ruby Ridge - Chopping shotgun barrels under 18" - FBI

    Waco - Is the only situation mentioned where US Gov. (again FBI) under William Jefferson and Killer Reno had zero cause to serve the warrant in cattle trailers and APC. The Gov. claimed drugs were being manufactured allowing the military to get involved. There were several things going on at that compound that drew attention to them, one being lots of machine gun parts being bought but no class 3 Dealers. Then the claim from Killer Reno that babies were being sexually assaulted, (so lets burn them.). I am in no way offering any excuse for the Gov. actions in Waco. The FBI acted heinously, following directions based on lies. I HAVE NOT read ANY first hand reports from ANY military personnel that were involved in that action. If you have please provide source. I do not believe knowing what they know now, that any of the military guys were proud or happy to conduct that operation. Maybe someday we'll know the rest of the story. All I do know somehow Klinton got elected and allowed it to happen.

    mkirkland, You are absolutely right, the odds are against the right. But I'm of the opinion that is where the battle must be fought. Sounds like I'm in the same boat as you but with three kids. The schools try to sway them to the left and we pull them to the right. So we must make up the difference by sharing our sport and educating the masses when ever we get a chance. Sorry, I'll get off the soap box.

    I feel that since 9-11 there has been a subtle yet positive shift of the American populace to the right. Klinton got good marks because of the economy. The economy stinks right now but Bush, this week was at 70+ approval rating. This my friend is good news.

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    ooops.

    I've done wrong and I don't know how to fix it!

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    I feel that since 9-11 there has been a subtle yet positive shift of the American populace to the right.


    I feel that since 9-11 there has been a not so subtle erosion of our freedoms and a negative shift of the government toward fascism.

    Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
  • 5db5db Member Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    "I feel that since 9-11 there has been a not so subtle erosion of our freedoms and a negative shift of the government toward fascism."
    (If I knew how to do that quote thing, I would)


    How are we losing our freedoms? And please explain, if you don't mind, the reasons behind your feelings of the government moving towards fascism.

    If you have one shot...Accu-Shot Website
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    How are we losing our freedoms? And please explain, if you don't mind, the reasons behind your feelings of the government moving towards fascism.


    Have you been to an airport or government office lately? Have you flown on an airplane lately? Have you read any of the 103 pieces of new legislation that either relax or relieve restrictions on our security agencies re: powers of surveillance and detainer? Have you read the Home Security Act? Have you read Mein Kampf?

    Often the mind believes it is thinking, when it is only passing from one metaphor to the next.
  • SkydiveSkydive Member Posts: 737 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    To 5DB

    This does bother me. I skydive as a hobby and when I get a chance to travel on business I like to take my rig and skydive at a different Drop Zone. We have devices called ADD's that automatically activate your reserve if your falling faster than 100 miles an hour at under 1000 feet. It uses a small incendiary device to burn the small line that holds the reserve in. I used to be able to carry this onto a plane, now I can't even get it in my checked baggage. This sucks.

    Every so often, I like to stick my head out the window, look up, and smile for a satellite picture.
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings again, to 5db if you look at the tapes of kent state you will note that there was a peaceful demonstration until the nat guard released the tear gas into the crowd then there was pandimoniam. it was the guard commander that was charged with insighting a riot and was relieved of command and from that point the guard hasn't been called out to college demo's. and concerning the ruby ridge thing, the barrel was cut at 18 1/4" , 1/4" under that procribed by law. and as we know from hind sight it was a set-up. to the us marshel service 1/4" = three dead two severly wounded, and some kids not only traumatized but motherless for life... respt submitted dads-freehold ps the tax stamp for a short barrel shotgun is five dollars , so for ten dollars (two 500 mossbergs) such carneage...

    if your going to be a savage, be a headhunter
  • Evil ATFEvil ATF Member Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    SkyDive:

    First off, congratulations on waking up and recognizing that one day you're going to have to either defend yourself and your Liberty or sit on your * in servitude.

    Second, I see that very few people have the slightest clue as to what actually went down at Waco. I've been saying the same crap for years as well as providing undisputeable proof, yet people continue to bleat the ignorant crap that CNN bottle fed them with. I'll not be repeating myself, so y'all can feel free to type in "Evil ATF" as your GB search word if you're interested and just happened to miss it the first 1,000 times I said it.

    Third, you need to examine your personal situation.

    Are you in an urban or rural area?

    Do you have a family to support, or are you a bachelor?

    Do you have the funds to thoroughly equip yourself or are you on a limited budget?

    1. Buy a copy of a book called Boston's Gun Bible by Boston T. Party. It is the definitive resource for the 21st Century Freedom Fighter/Survivalist. The book will greatly help you in gear and weapon selection, so buy a copy before you commit the funds to a rifle you may regret buying later.

    2. Buy yourself a Main Batttle Rifle (MBR).
    Traditionally the term MBR refers to a rifle chambered in .30 or some kind (.308, 30.06, etc), but it has been watered down to mean an "assault" type rifle. I favor the M1A. Others favor the AR15 or FAL. All are great for the Survivalist.

    3. Go to a credible school such as Front Sight (My favorite) or Thunder Ranch.
    Front Sight gift certificates are available for purchase here on www.gunbroker.com for a paltry $275. The certificate will allow you to take any of the Four Day courses offered. These classes usually go for $1,000 or more, so the $275 gift certificate is a screaming deal. I went when the certificates were selling for $400.

    Take the Four Day Rifle course first, then decide if you want to take Advanced Four Day Rifle or the Four Day Defensive Handgun. I'd recommend getting the two rifle courses out of the way first, as handguns do not win wars. We're already engaged in one in this country, the public simply fails to recognize it.

    4. Equip yourself with enough food, water, medical supplies, etc.
    It will do you no good to be the biggest, baddest mofo on your block if you drop due to hunger, thirst, sickness, etc.

    www.frugalsquirrels.com is a good place to meet like minded people and gather valuable survival information.

    That's the basics. Get those out of the way and drop me an email. I'll be happy to help you further if you'd like, I just don't come by here much anymore due to some of the asinine comments in this thread.

    People need to wake up and smell what they're neck deep in.

    But that's just me, the GB Psycho.





    Stand And Be Counted
Sign In or Register to comment.