Oh My God!! Yahooooo!!!!!!

guns-n-painthorses · January 2002

The feds say "OK Scott, we know you should get around $100.00 a ton for that heavy melt scrap,BUT, the market will only support $40.00 a ton. So, Tell you what we're going to do. We will pay you the extra $60.00 for every ton you haul in. Do you think your small business can make it now?! SLAP SLAP SLAP..... oh crap, I was dreaming that I was a farmer! New estimates show that LDP's (handouts) will equal 50% of most farmers income this year! What a country!

.280 freak · January 2002

Pretty strong words. Try buying a farm and make any kind of living off it if you think it's so easy. What people tend to forget is that farming is unlike ANY other business. Our input costs (that we have no choice but to absorb) continue to skyrocket, while the price we get for our goods goes up and down, but always staying at a well-below parity level.Believe me, if I didn't have to take gov't. (read - your taxes) money just to survive, I wouldn't.

competentone · January 2002

.280,So you're trying to tell us that farming is unlike any other business because your input costs continue to rise...but the prices you get for the goods you produce aren't going up enough...Give me a break!If you're saying you "neeeed" a government hand-out to keep your business going, you're saying: YOU CAN'T RUN A PROFITABLE BUSINESS! Either it's inefficiency on your part; or it is general "overcapacity" in the marketplace--either of which can be solved instantly with free-market economics; which we don't have, so the inefficiency continues...funded by the rest of our tax dollars...

Spring Creek · January 2002

GUNS-NYou, me and everybody in the U.S. pays """"20cents""""per day to fund L.D.P. and every other farm subsidy that exists today, including CRP.Would you like to trade 20 cents a day for the food costs of the Japanese, Europeans or any other industrialized nation?? I think not! I know I wouldn't.Think of the subsidy as a guarantee of economically priced food, on your table. If all the small, medium and even some large farmers are forced out of business, because of the low commodity prices; just wait for our food prices if farm commodities are controlled by one or two farm conglomerates.It won't be pretty.

robsguns · January 2002

This is gonna get ugly.I saw all the small farmers go down the tubes as I grew up. I blame it on all the hand outs the government did to keep food production low, like paying farmers to not grow anything. As the effect of that took place, farmers losing interest, the big farmers just got bigger, and bigger, taking over where the small farmers left off. The amount of food produced went up anyway. Technology helped farmers out along the way, making it even easier, albeit more expensive, to grow a decent crop. The plan put in place to help farmers has in my opinion been like the government giving money to the Wal-Marts of the world and then wondering why only Wal-Mart exists. Big farmers dont deserve a damn thing. They're worth millions, if its not enough, sell out, and quit complaining and taking the money of the government. Hows that suit you? The land that use to be used by those small farmers now is built up into sub-divisions, the land gone forever. The small farmer was screwed by the government. They wont give the hand outs to the small farmer, but they will the big ones, something is wrong with that picture. Farmers that had the tenacity to tough it out, I salute you, your job is not envious. Almost all the farmers expenses are tax deductible, what other small business gets that kind of tax break? I havent heard of it. Feed, tax deductible, vehicles, tax deductible, equipment, tax deductible. And people whine about big companys that worm their way out of paying taxes. I guess the hard working farmer of yesteryear that knew farming was the only legal means of gambling at that time, is gone. Those farmers knew what they were up against, and damn it, they didnt blame anyone for their failures or success, its the way nature works. Look up whiner in the dictionary, it says, see corporate farmer.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

11thcanopy · January 2002

From time to time I notice a pickup truck with a bumper sticker that says "Don't gripe about farmers with your mouth full"

robsguns · January 2002

Its not farmers I gripe about, its government subsidies to them, and the farmers that gripe its not enough. Oh yeah, I havent met a real farmer in years, farming use to be something, now, well, its a corporation, I believe in small farmers, sweat of the brow, that type of thing, not tax breaks and whining about 'how hard it is for me' kind of crap. With that type of mind set, no one should have to pay taxes, 'my job is so harrrddd', WWWAAAAA!!!!, someone call the wambulance. And not to be snotty, but I can sustain myself without any farmer just fine, I remember what I was taught as a kid, and its not that hard to work a hoe when all else fails. If any farmer has the audacity to tell me I cant survive without him or her, I'll gladly point to the man who picks up the guys garbage, provides his electricity, pumps his diesel for him, makes his fertilizer, and yes, the recruiter walking through the mall, and tell him he cant survive without them either, so think again. I however, can grow my own food. Grind my own wheat, and catch my own meat. When push comes to shove, I start shoveing, shoveling, digging, hoeing, hunting, aw... you get the picture. I'd much rather drive to town and shop, but I dont NEED to get it there.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

.280 freak · January 2002

Competentone -Like I said, if it's so easy, why don't you just buy a farm and show me how it's done. You know the old story about walking a mile in someone else's shoes? I've been farming for 30 years, since I was 18, and I've got to tell you, it is most definitely harder to make a living doing it then it used to. Just as an aside, I'm a small family farmer on about 1000 acres that used to provide for two families, my dad's and his brother's, and now can hardly support one. It isn't just that input costs are through the roof, everybody is in the same boat, there. The problem is that we have no say in what we get for our product.As an example of what I mean, if I complain to a merchant in town about a price increase for some thing I am purchasing from him, the answer is always the same - "I had to raise my price to cover my increased costs". Yet, when I haul my crop in to sell, I have to take whatever the elevator will give me, I can't say to them "My costs have gone up, I need more for my grain". Well, I CAN say that, but they will tell me to take a hike, take what they are offering or haul my grain back home.An analogy - You run the ABC Widget Company. It costs you one dollar each to manufacture your widgets, and that cost keeps going up every year. When you go to sell your widgets, the most you can get for them is 75 cents. How long can you stay in business? What, you're going slowly broke? Gee you must be a lousy businessman!Are government programs the answer? Probably not. What is the answer? Beats me. The only thing I know for sure is that the small family farm is slowly but surely going the way of the buggy whip. If things continue on their present course, eventually all food production in this country will be in the hands of a small number of huge entities. If and when that happens, you ain't goin' to believe what you will be paying for your food. Oh, by the way, that box of cereal you bought for four dollars? I got about 5 cents of that. Packaging, transportation, and advertising make up most of the rest.

robsguns · January 2002

.280, When I talk of small farmers, I'm sorry if I offend, but you're one of the big ones where I come from. I mean small, 250-350 acres tops. Farmers that really sustained themselves, and not much else. I hear what you're saying about not being able to get what you need for your grain, and that is a farmer problem that should be addressed by the farmers. If its a problem of all farmers, then you all need to get together and fix it, just as any other group of producers would. Problem is, quite simply, you make more food than we need. You produce more food than we use as a nation. You are in an industry that has no market. Now if that is a problem, which it is, then that tells me just one thing, stop producing so much of it. Its no different than a gun manufacturer that produces 100,000 units of a gun that will only sell 25,000, and continues to do so year after year. They are doomed. The problem is you have to adapt to change, as we all do. I dont like it either, I hate what the world and country is becoming, but if your job is no longer profitable, do something different. If enough farmers were to get together, though, you wouldnt need to do something different, just do it smarter, i.e. make less guns, ya know? Its the age old dilema of supply and demand, whats worth more to you?, a ton of granite, or a ton of gold? Yes, it depends on whether you make tombstones or jewelry, but it still gets my point across.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

YankeeClipper · January 2002

Like it or not you can't have a "cheap food" policy without farm subsidies.

robsguns · January 2002

All these subsidies, kind of sounds like we're working our way towards socialism. Whatever happen to free trade, supply and demand?Ok I got one for you.I'm going to start my own business. My business is going to be simple. I'm going to sell used '* tissue'. Since its so easy to get, I should have a never ending supply. I'm going to have to spend a lot of money collecting it though, and getting it to market is going to be tricky, so I expect my losses to be quite high, for the first 25 years, until I can figure out how to sell it to another country as a fuel source. So I will apply for a government subsidy?, and a huge tax break that will allow me to survive, until I can figure out how to sell this 'used * tissue' at a profit and make a living at it. Any tax payers have a problem with that? Any farmers mind losing 1 billion dollars of their tax breaks so that we can fund my business adventure? Thats kind of what I thought. Sounds like a silly idea doesnt it? So does giving money to someone that is makeing too much of something, when they keep right on doing it, and keep right on needing the money to help them out. Am I the only one that gets this?

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

guns-n-painthorses · January 2002

Yea, I know about small farming. I lived on my uncles farm most of the eighties trying to help him save it. Watched as he lost that farm, it was a sorry sight. So, you can't make any money at it huh? tell me why you don't raise hay? I have to pay almost $100.00 a ton for good alfalfa delivered buy the semi load. Seems a guy could make good money there. Or how about oats? The local feed mill is paying $2.20 a bushel here in Logan. Hell, thats more than corn! And hay straw is $4.00 a small square bale around here. Seems like enough to me.Yea, my prices countinue to go up too. Tell me why with steel prices down 60% from 1998, why a new pickup is 10% higher then in 1998. Unlike the farmer, the fedral goverment is not here holding my hand. If I can't make money in the scrap metal business, I'll have to find somthing else to do. I guess farmers feel they have the "right" to farm no matter how much monet they "loose". Hey, I live on a farm, and everone around me farms. It's real nice to see all the new tractors and combines that these ol boys can buy, $80,000.00 and up, but they can't make any money at it! *!

jltrent · January 2002

Most small farmers I know have another job so they can farm. I have 373 acres and if I didn't have my night job I couldn't make it farming. I love farming as it gives you a feeling of freedom as no other job I have ever done, but profit margins are very small even if everything goes perfect. I say us farmers ought to start a union and control our supply and these city folk will be down on their knees begging real fast. It would show just how much BS and how unimportant those white collared jobs are.

robsguns · January 2002

jltrent, fine example. There now, you see, that is what I am talking about, someone with a little piss and vinegar in his gut, with a mind to do something about it, thats exactly what I'm talking about, fix the problem, dont complain. That is exactly what the farmers should do if there is a problem to fix, do something about it, and stop takeing hand outs, although again, I'm complaining about the big farmers complaining, not the small ones, jltrent is the type of farmer I grew up around, farmer by night, employee by day, scratching a living and hopeing it paid off every few years.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

gunpaq · January 2002

jltrent: Remember the NFO. All those poor bastards that dumped thier milk back in the seventies to control milk prices. The big corporations just laughed. There are a lot of foolish small farmers out there that are the cause of their own demise but they are the minority. Why do we no longer milk cows? Because it was no longer profitable and would not support the farm. Why do we raise beef, oates, and hay now? Because it pays the bills. Why is our newest tractor 25 years old? Because we can't buy one of those $80,000.00 tractors and stay in business. The only government handout that we ever had was the land bank program that Pop took advantage of during WWII. The small family farmer isn't getting rich or getting any advantage over someone else by using a government program. He is just surviving. The big corporate farms and the rich guys who play at farming as a sideline are the ones to sternly look upon. I get pretty fired up when people say "you greedy farmers taking all that money - if you can't make in a busines then get out". Those people who criticize the small family farmer for taking government handouts are the first ones to scream, protest, and file suits in court to save green space and view sheds when the Farmer says "to hell with it" and sells his land off to the developer. Why should the small farmer work 16 plus hours a day seven days a week for one half of minimum wage or less, buy retail and sell wholesale, expose himself to the risk of the weather's rath destroying crops, etc., etc., and then hope to break even or make a modest profit at best when he is sitting on one or two million dollars worth of real estate? I guess most people really don't understand unless they actually have had the responsibility of stewardship over the land. Perhaps one way for a non-farm oriented person to look at government handout programs for agriculture/farmers is to look at them as means of national maintenance. No farmer wants a handout or having to resort to a government program to stay in business. My family has coninued to work the farm because we love the land and it is our heritage despite all the outside pressures to take the easy route and sell out. It was a farmer many years ago that fired the shot heard round the world.

Pack slow, fall stable, pull high, hit dead center.

223believer · January 2002

Excellent points, robsguns! We should go to a totally free market system with farming! What a great idea! Of course, there will be the usual peaks and valleys known to all unregulated businesses: one month will will cost $2.50 a gallon, and the next it will cost $6.50 a gallon. At times, because of production problems and various farming conglomerates jockeying to corner the market and drive other producers out of business, there will be no food on the shelves for weeks at a time. But over time things should shake out and there should be only the occasional huge snafus like we have seen with unregulated electricity in California. Good thinking, robsguns! I never realized that the 89 cents per loaf of bread and $2.59 per gallon of milk I've been paying--and seeing in the stores every day year after year after year--was such an awful deal. Hey, robsguns, maybe the new farmers free from all sorts of governmental programs and restrictions will run things as well as, hmmmm, well, Enron!

guns-n-painthorses · January 2002

Well I love the scrap metal business too, but if I can't feed the family doing it, tuff s*&t! I suppose if all the scrap dealers went out on strike or formed a union, we could make a statement, but that's about it, 'cuz the good ole USA would just import more steel from over seas. What, you farmers think your the only business people getting screwed by imports? No.The difference is that you are just the biggest bunch of welfare junkies there are. So what, you going to stop growing crops? Well do it! See what it gets you. We can allways import more food. I guess we are both on the same page there, I just don't get the welfare. And by the way, all my equipment is old and worn out too, but we make do, unless, of course, I got a goverment check coming,,,,, humm,,,$80,000 tractor,,,, $130,000 combine,,, maybe a new disc or planter, after the new pick-up of corse! Hey, I love farming too!

robsguns · January 2002

223believer, The situation you describe as possibly happening would in no way be possible. Do you think that everyone is a crook? Do you think that it takes a government controlling our every move to keep the price of every product sold in America at a decent level? If you do, I respect your opinion, but I do not share it. I believe there are a lot of good honest people who will not be trying to rape consumers, as I think you believe the farmers would, if not regulated. There are a lot of people selling products everywhere across the nation without government regulation or interference, and they charge a fair price to create a profit margin that allows them to make a decent living. There are those that are not in that category also. For the most part though, what you suggest as being possible would not occur, just for the sheer fact of supply and demand, and COMPETITON. Once a few farmers decided they could make more by selling their product for less, the prices would fall right back down to the levels they are at now, but maybe a little higher, so that the farmers could actually start making a profit. The consumer would not lose out, and the world wont end without government interference/intervention. It would be controlled just like the prices of guns are controlled here on the auction site, and that method of priceing seems to work pretty good to me, competition, and supply and demand. Does that make sense to you?Oh yes, I take extreme exception to the statement about milk and bread costing the same for the past several years, as being ok, because its good for you, or anyone. Its stifling the farmers ability to make a profit, and sell at fair value as compared to what it costs to produce. Just because it suits some people to not see an increase in food costs, doesnt mean its healthy for the economy or the American public. Gas has gone up, vehicles have gone up, cost of living in general has gone up, it can be seen in the cost of everything around the country from housing to bird feed, so why not in the grocery stores? Because it doesnt suit the government, because it doesnt make good political sense? What about economic sense? If the government wants to start producting food, and give it away, then they need to find a way to do that, without a cost occuring to the tax payers, but its not fair to one group of producers, the farmers, to screw them over. What do you do for a living, lets say you drive a truck for a living, ok? Your costs go up every year, you're barely scraping by, but the government controls how much you can charge by the mile, and there is nothing you can do about it. Doesnt that make you just a little P.Offed? Think about it a while. There is right and wrong. Now think about this, how do you feel knowing that the government is going to subsidise all the truckers with your tax money, because they want to keep transportation cost down? This is hypothetical, remember? It seems as clear as the nose on my face what is right and wrong, how about you?

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC[This message has been edited by robsguns (edited 01-29-2002).]

dakotashooter2 · January 2002

I am from farm country and have spent a few years working with my grandfather and uncles on their farm and while I am far from an expert I have made some observations. While costs have risen and profits have shrunk efficiency and production have increased significantly, more so than demand. There is talk of loss of the family farms and its true because of a couple factors. One being that the current generation does not have the desire to farm. The second being related to the increase in efficiency, there is not room for the family farm at least to the extent there used to be. Going back 50 years if the number of farmers increased by 2 for each new generation we would run out of land and also continue have more supply than demand. In my area, and I've seen it,in the 70,s when wheat went to $6 farmers started farming every inch of ground they could find,includinge areas they otherwise would never have considered, and it would be no different now if the price went to the same. Also our own government practically gives away what surplus we do have to other countries instead of charging enough for the farmers to get a reasonable profit. None of these factors are the farmers fault. However subsidies are not conductive to competition, something that every business needs to be both efficient and continue to be profitable. Nothing against farmers but while subsidies are great for the individual they are just a bandaide and dig the farming industry into a bigger hole. .02

edharold · January 2002

I fail to see how the farmers' plight differs substantially from all the small buinesses that have gone down the toilet to make way for Walmarts' and foreign imports. I grew up on a farm and know all the complaints by heart. The small farmer is trying to perpetuate a life style that hasn't been self supporting since FDR started the family farm sudsidy system in the 1930s.I have friends on family farms, I hunt their property, which I couldn't do on most Agri-business property. Many ranchers I have known spent a lifetime struggling to get by, then when they get older, they sell out to developers for a couple of million and move to Arizona.Best (only) reason I can see to subsidize family farms (only) is to keep the subdividers out.Why does a farmer request to be buried shall when he dies?He wants to be sure he can get his "handout".

"They that would give up liberty to obtain safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"Benj. Franklin, 1759

competentone · January 2002

223believer,robsguns has already answered your comments about the free marketplace causing "unstable" prices of goods, but I'll add my two cents too.It is surprising to hear you repeat what is essentially socialist propaganda about free markets--the same people that tell you "people can't handle guns, we need the GOVERNMENT to regulate guns" also tell you "people can't handle themselves in the private contracts of a free marketplace, we NEED the GOVERNMENT to regulate and control the marketplace".What you fail to understand is that the "instability" observed in prices or availablilty of goods is usually caused by government interference--not the free market.The example about electricity in CA, is perfect-- you claim the industry was deregulated, and that caused the problems, when it was infact the INSANE government regulations which caused the problems. The govenment prohibited new power plants from being built for years; they allowed some deregulation on wholesale pricing, but then prohibited the retailers from passing any cost increases on to the end consumer! And you call this an example of free-market economics?I have to get back to work; but try not to repeat the nonsense the socialists tell you about free-market economics.

BUCK/91/92 · January 2002

Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in, by the way I'm not a farmer. What other business is making the same amount for their product as they did in the 60's & 70's. Farmers have to get bigger or can't possibly survive. As far as getting subsidies, how would everyone complaining about farmers like to depend on foreign countries for their food? Some countries in South America are still using DDT which this country banned at least 50yrs ago. Another thing most people don't know is that meat that is hung in some of those countries does not hang in a cooler, just out in the open air with bugs all over it. If you would want to trade our food supply here in the good old U.S.A. for that foreign crap then just keep B****ing about American farmers. As for me I'm extremely grateful to our farmers and the U.S.D.A. for keeping our food supply safe.

CAndres35 · January 2002

just to add my two cents. when i farmed we got approx 80 bushel to the acre and .95 per bushel. now the farms are getting 180 bushel to the acre and 2.10 per bushel. granted seed and fert. prices have gone way up as has the cost of machinery. however the farmer can farm more ground in the same amount of time get twice as much per bushel and get twice as many bushels per acre.when i farmed it was very hard to find time to have another job other than maybe in the winter. i havent studied the economics of this for a long while so maybe someone can set me straight. carl

robsguns · January 2002

This is just a taste of what the politicians must go through day after day. So many opinions, so many considerations. I dont feel sorry for them. Seems to me there is just right and wrong, and everything else is bull. Work hard and what you have comeing to you will come. Except charity from no one. Be proud of who you are, and stand for what you believe in, its how this country was founded. God help us.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

guns-n-painthorses · January 2002

Rush Limbaugh sais it best, "we need to change the natonal symbol of this country from a bald eagle to a big fat sow (female pig) with a million piglets (baby pigs) stuck on her tits. I don't buy into all the crap of how bad the food prices would be, over production has it's advantages.

songdog · January 2002

I have run a small (660 acre farm for about 5 years on my own. I do this on top of my other two jobs and a full load at college. I have just gotten to the area where i am starting to make a profit off of the place. THis is how i have found to run our property to the maximun eficiency. Of the 660 acres i PLant approx 200 acres into corn and milo. Harvest in september. I plant another 250 acres of wheat, harvested in june. I run my own cattle. It started out with 15 cows and 1 bull. They are all put on the remaining acreage to feed in the summer. THe cattle has since spread to a 120 head black angus herd that stays at the number rate of 100. All calves are sold in the fall to make the maximun profit going into the winter. Once winter sets and the grasses are no good anymore i put the cattle on a pie chart field over the corn and milo. Then In The end of this month it will be time to rotate them to a pie field on the wheat. Doing the pie fields causes me to not need to hay the cows over the winter. There is nothing like busting your balls every morning to make a buck, or at least break even. I would challenge you corporate farm bastards to work a 4 to 9 shift running a medium sized corporation ON YOUR OWN. I bet that they can not do it. songdog

Be bold in what you stand for, careful in what you fall for.

25-06 · January 2002

Most of you may be aware of this, but if not, and you want to get really mad, go to web site ewg.org and type in some farmers name. It will tell you what he drew in government payments from '96 to 2000. The highest paid one was from Arkansas, do I smell a rat here. They drew almost $50 miilion. Am I missing something here? Why would anyone need $50 million in government handouts at tax payers expense? I think it is time for the government to get out of farming and let the markets determine the price.

robsguns · January 2002

songdog, You are the man. Its refreshing to hear someone doing well with his farm. I dont know how you are managing your load, but thats one heck of a job you're doing. Sounds like you have more brains than your college instructors.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

Miss. Creant · January 2002

I live around farmers and work for one in my off time. I am not trying to bad mouth them one bit. But it is so very true about them crying and whining all the time (not all of them). I will trade spots with them (the whiners)any day. The way I see it we are both living paycheck to paycheck only they get the nice house and new pickups,4 wheelers and new equipment to work with. It is really degrading to us to hear them cry about coming down to the middle class level and living like the rest of us.

jet · January 2002

privatly owned farmland is our countries greatist resource. diversity of ownershipprovides security.

guns-n-painthorses · January 2002

Well, I guess I didn't know the half of it. What a interesting website 25-06 listed. I guess it's worse than I thought. The state of Iowa (the welfare junkie farmers that is) recived over 6 BILLION in handouts over the last 4 years. Go ahead, see for yourself. Go to the website 25-06 mentioned. Type in your state, county, and zip code and find out who are the biggest welfare junkies in your town. It will make you sick! Lay down you old sow, the piglets want a tit!

REBJr · January 2002

Well, I might as well chime in.The way I see it you guys are not seeing the real problem: Gov's run food production to prove a point: America runs farms in a capitalistic manner to show the world it works, and has to pay off farmers for buying into the idea. Russia runs theirs totally opposite to prove communism works. The basic point is that there are millions of people starving in the world while there is more than enough farmland to provide for these people, whatever the cost. But I see production being limited for political reasons. Eating should be a basic right afforded to all people on Earth, (and maybe involuntary sterilization to go along with it in some cases)That said, no I don't feel sorry for farmers, they are the ones cruising new pickups and buying new tractors every 3 years. Hey, if its SO BAD, get a regular job like the rest of us, no they won't do that, they know which side of the bread they're butters on! And don't even bring pride or ancestry into it. I have a college degree in (electronics) and I make more money trimming trees than I ever did playing with circuits. (note the use of the word "regular" and not "real", I'm voicing opinions, not enciting riots. There's my 2 cents, anybody got change?

whiteclouder · January 2002

There is a factor in production called economy of scale. I'd explain it but I'd also get whined at so I won't. It's the reason corporations run most of our farms. Small private farms have nearly disappeared because they are simply not economically feasible. So we live with it like we live with three auto manufacturers, three battery manufacturers, three major railroads or four major airlines.We subsidize our farms because we have to compete with other countries that do the same thing. Difference is, the savings here are passed on to the taxpayer in the form of cheap food. Don't believe me? Move to Europe and live there for a few years like I did. If you were to pay what they pay over there, and in Japan, you'd be tickled to death to ante up the two or three buck a year we all pay to subsidize our food. And one last point. Who do you think these evil corporations are? Do you think one or two people rake in all that money and store it away in a bank. Nope, they pay workers to run the farms, process and deliver the food and pay dividends to shareholders. I think it works fine now. Time was when people here were too hungry to grumble. Maybe we have to too good and need to struggle a little again.Clouder..

aglore · January 2002

And what makes the farmer who plows the soil we walk on, any better than the farmer who plows the water we swim in. Fisherman are farmers of the sea and yet they get no Govt. subsidies during bad times. If everybody in the USA would eat just a pound and a half more each year of seafood products, the commercial fisherman would not be having problems.

Allen Glore

guns-n-painthorses · January 2002

Clouder, The point is this, why do we have to subsidize the farmers so much? Do you think they are the only people who are getting screwed by imports. They are NOT the only people or company who contibutes to the local economy. In my little town of less than 3000 in western Iowa there are 274 people locally that over the last 5 years have raked in a whopping $12,156,757.00.00. The top man - not corparation, took in $447,243.77. Not a bad living huh?The lowest being a mere $73.00. Why would a person even take a 73 dollar check? Just goes to show there is no limit to the greed. 274 people, that's basicly every farmer around here. No wonder nobody can afford to buy any land around here, to a farmer, it's not land, it's just another big fat goverment tit to suck their welfare out of!

salzo · January 2002

I can due without farmers- I do not eat food that FOOD eats.

Happiness is a warm gun

idsman75 · January 2002

SERENITY NOW!

Rembrandt · January 2002

Clouder has pretty much hit it on the head...we subsidise because our competitors are subsidised by their goverments...and the cycle goes on....Ponder this....years ago farmers were more diversified. They didn't just raise crops, then when the harvest was over go to Florida for the winter. Most had multiple livestock operations (Hogs, Cattle, sheep, poultry, etc.) When the crop prices would take a dive...just feed the cheap grain out and try to make money in another area. Why did most farmers get away from this?.....because it's a lot of work! I remember farming 800 acres with some old paid for modest equipment...we made money, because the overhead was minimal. Took longer to get the job done, but the neighbor who got himself into debt with his new equipment lost it all later in bankrupcty....he got the same prices we did....only we just didn't have the overhead....Al Capone once said..."The Gross is always Net....when the overhead is zero".Granted today the profit margins are smaller, that's why one has to farm more ground to make the same money....(it's called volume marketing). Any other business that falls on hard times, lays people off or sells off some equipment to make ends meet....but they don't go to the goverment with their hand out. I mean no disrespect to those that have made the sacrifices and diversified with creative techniques.....unfortunately there are a lot who do not, and all get painted with the same brush.....

tc790108 · February 2002

I dont know much about farming but i do know a little about cattle and sheep ranching. When my father-in-law started ranching the price he would get for a yearling calf would range around .75 to 1.00 dollar a pound on the hoof. The cost of pair of Levi jeans was 3.00 each and you could buy a truck for around 3000.00. Today he still makes anywhere from .75 to 1.00 a pound and we all know the price of jeans and God forbid a new pickup. Farmers and Ranchers try to make a living doing what they do but mostly thay do what they do for the love of it.

25-06 · February 2002

Well, the site did draw some attention, I was hoping it would generate a whole lot of discussion. I would not mind subsidizing the farmer if they really needed it. When they use the goverment payments to expand their operations by buying more land, new pickups every 2 years or every 6 months, take $7-$12,000 cruises every year, I think it is time to stop the insanity. The farm bill is being discussed before Congress right now and I hope everyone will phone or write their Congressman and demand a stop to such stupidity. The farm programs for the last few years have been based on acres and bushells. Such a setup is designed to let the big get bigger and the little guy is put out of business. I do not think that is the American way, or at least it has not been in the past.

songdog · February 2002

Oh my God is right. I looked at that website that was written above and looked at some of the counties where i know quite a few farmers. This one county in particular had two brothers that i knew. I went to grade school with them. They are 3 years older than I. Here is the deal, I know that they live together in the same house and the both work at a major corporation making around $50k a year/ea. They farm on the side as a weekend job on their family land that has set idle for i do not know how long. Over the past five years they have managed to be subsided $700k. What acrock of dung. This does not include the money they recieve off of their crops and several thousand head of cattle they sell each spring and fall.songdog

Be bold in what you stand for, careful in what you fall for.

Oh My God!! Yahooooo!!!!!!

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