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X-ring Beach. I was trying to decide what to say and then you said it
quote:Hacker you made your point...you don't understand the mindset of the warrior. Fine now it's time for you to let go. If you think pin pricks of pain and the gallons of the yucky blood expended is some stupid tribal ritual then please go thinking the way you do. There are many things that the "protected" don't understand. We don't expect you to understand.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
Geez, I'm sorry I brought the whole subject up! Especially as I am "probably the same type of people that just cant seem to figure out how to scroll past threads that dont interest you!", as robsguns said. Kinda sorry I brought that one up, too...
For the record, I never served, but I certainly CAN understand (at least as much as any civilian can) that this is NOT some childish, machismo game. As one of you said, it's a rite of passage, the "cherry on the sundae", the finishing touch; it shows you have arrived. Even as an outsider, I am sick to death of whiny second-guessers squealing in falsetto over yet another *sob* BRUTAL ritual by those... those... SAVAGES!!!(Hey, that's rather good! I think I'll use that somehow...)
If people who "kill people and break things" for a living, to keep my sorry civilian behind safe, want to get sloshed together and draw a few drops of each others' blood in a "tribal" ritual, THEN MORE POWER TO 'EM!!! THAT was all I was trying to say with my origional C&P (see, I do it too)! I just wish to hell all the "overcivilized", as Jeff Cooper is fond of calling them, would BUTT THE HELL OUT OF THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE MILITARY!!!! EVEN as an outsider, I can certainly understand that no, you can't teach a guy to kill, and then just expect him to shut it off and sit in on a love fest. IT DON'T WORK THAT WAY!
But that's just my $.02...
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Al ya yung wipersnperz think ya al dat. well sunny lemme tell ya. droppin blood aint nuttin. just ask BullzeyesGrandma. her first period sounded like what yal were tring ta say . cuple sharp panes n then the blood came. No big deel. what a bunch a sity slikers.
Grand daddy
I'm starting to smell a simian conspiracy here. Nobody could possibly be as ignorant as hacker makes himself out to be. Nobody could whine and cry with the near hysteria that hacker has achieved. It has to be that monkey again attempting to get everyone worked up. Now fess up hacker....are you the monkey's alter ego and do you own a Jennings? Beach
250Savage,
I hope I didnt offend you with the "scroll past the thread" comment. It wasnt meant to offend anyone, or aimed at any one individual, it was just a comparison if you will.
as usual some of you just keep getting it wrong. you accuse me of insulting and calling names. i have done neither. you have accused me of insulting the military. just the opposite i have praised the people who are in the service or have served. all i did, i will repeat this for some of you who don't hear it the first time, all i did was say that i thought the blood pinning thing was stupid. excuse me for having an opinion. gee, i thought this was america where i could say what i thought but i must have been wrong. and i wish you would drop this porch bs. i know what that means. it's beachmaster's little insult to a board member who is young (in high school i think) and it's a way of implying contempt for his youth and inexperience. well i hate to burst your bubble beachguy but we were still fighting in vietnam when i graduated from high school. i had no real desire to serve in the military but i went down on my 18th birthday and registered for the draft. i was not called but if i had been i would have gone without question. i am not some kid still wet behind the ears. i have been around the block a few times and i have done enough to not need the approval of anyone here to validate my life. you call me names and make insulting suggestions and you are wrong, beachmaster and several others of you. you don't know me but you've all decided what i'm like. you think you know it all but you know nothing. stop spouting off when you have no facts. for the last time, if you think blood pinnings are cool and make you proud, then do it. why do you care what i think about it? tell your friends to to it. tell your grandchildren to do it. but i still think it's dumb. if it bothers you that i disagree, well tough luck. i don't care if you don't like what i think or what i say. and for you active military men and veterans, isn't protecting our right to be free and say what we want a part of why you served? isn't this one of the things you were supposed to be protecting? or do you only protect yourselves and those who agree with you? now, why don't you all go find something better to do than insult me. i'm not worth it, remember?
FIGHTING SOLDIERS FROM THE SKY, FEARLESS MEN WHO JUMP AND DIE, MEN
WHO MEAN JUST WHAT THEY SAY, THE BRAVE MEN OF THE GREEN BERET.
SILVER WINGS UPON THEIR CHESTS, THESE ARE MEN, AMERICANS BEST
ONE HUNDRED MEN WILL TEST TODAY. BUT ONLY THREE WIN THE GREEN BERET.
TRAINED TO LIVE OFF NATURES LAND, TRAINED IN COMBAT, HAND TO HAND, MEN WHO FIGHT BY NIGHT AND DAY, COURAGE TAKEN FROM THE GREEN BERET.
SILVER WINGS UPON THEIR CHESTS, THESE ARE MEN, AMERICAS BEST, MEN WHO MEAN JUST WHAT THEY SAY, THE BRAVE MEN OF THE GREEN BERET.
BACK AT HOME A YOUNG WIFE WAITS, HER GREEN BERET HAS MET HIS FATE, HE HAS DIED FOR THOSE OPPRESSED, LEAVING HER THIS LAST REQUEST:PUT SIVLER WINGS ON MY SONS CHEST, MAKE HIM ONE OF AMERICAS BEST, HELL BE A MAN THEY'LL TEST ONE DAY, HAVE HIM WIN THE GREEN BERET.
If you still dont understand "HACKER" why being blooded is a honor(which I think it is) then you dont understand what being part of a team is. This just isnt any normal team either, our forefathers fought on the same team, and did nothing less than save the world. I think getting "pinned" represents the pain you went through to get there, and the blood that was shed by your bothers of the past.
I know....If he shows his face at the SSSofSSJ club house...he will probably be the first one to be thrown out....He dosn't have a way with words.....He would probably choke on a cigar, and spit out the cognac...and should probably ware a rain coat rather than a smoking jacket....
Hacker , your freedom of speech argument doesn't cut it. We all have freedom of speech. We say what we think, weather or not others agree.
The whole problem is when someone voices their opinion in such a mannor to degrade someone elces rights. When peoples opinions are used to interfere in the act of someone elce doing something they wish to do, you are then taking away their freedom without their consent. Calling them stupid for believing in something is just an insult, and you got back what you dished out. Say what you feel, then move over so the next guy can say what he feels, and so on. people can agree or dissagree. That dosn't make it acceptable for outsiders to dictate what insiders can or can't do. Thats freedom.
keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
travelor i did not at any time call anyone stupid. i said the practice sounded stupid to me. i commented on the custom not the people doing it. i never ever said anyone was stupid. i also said many times that if you like this custom then go ahead. i have no power over anyone to stop this and would not try if i did. what more can i say? also i have never tried to take anyone's rights as you claim i have. all i did was say how i felt about something and that was enough to cause a large number of people to insult me, call me names, suggest that i am worthless, immature, question my intelligence and my patriotism. oh, and someone called me a liberal which is the worst cut of all. this is your idea of free speech? i guess it's free as long as i agree with you, right?
OK supermonkey....I knew it was you all along. You really had us going for a while thinking there really was somebody named hacker out there. He might have been believable if you hadn't made him cry and whine so much. But when he brought bullzeye into the mix I knew he couldn't be real....bullzeye and I buried our hatchets long ago. And even though bullzeye did whine a little at first he has become a fine contributer on this forum. He and Clouder may not see eye to eye but what the hell...TLynne still thinks I am some ultra-liberal out to destroy Idaho and other Western environs.....but you played hacker pretty well my simian friend
Oh my God!!!! What if hacker really is real??? Will this story ever have an end? Beach
The military service is an unusual institution, understood little by people, who for whatever reason, have never served. The service chooses you, not the other way around. And believe it or not, you have little to do with the selection. I thrived in the military, something I probably would have never done as a civilian. I got used to being able to trust my life, my family's life and the security of my country to people I had never met before. But because they wore the uniform I did, I knew I could count on them. Not everybody belongs in the service, but we don't need everybody. Ten real good men in a team are infinitely superior to one hundred mediocre ones with no common bond. And pledging ceremonies are part of that bond. How silly to see the hats fly into the air at the Academy, and how thrilling. But do all the hats fly. No. They were not chosen. They graduated, they wear the rank and the uniform but as military men they are not complete and never will be. Are they less a man than the others? Absolutely not but they are not military men and they will not stay the course. Is that a mark of shame? No. But they cannot claim the honor either. It's the same with pinning, those that want it, cannot be stopped, it is their earned right. Those that don't want to be pinned, well, they're probably in the wrong outfit.
So hacker, you're right. Pinning is a silly thing if you think it so. But now you might understand why others might see it differently. I admire your courage under fire. Ya ain't a quitter and maybe we missed one. That happens sometimes.
Robsguns; no offense taken. Just joking on what a HUGH pile of flak I got over that one!
Damn! My nomex undies are still smokin'!
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
now clouder that was a measured and reasoned argument. you stated your case with grace. i can appreciate men with a shared history wanting some physical record of their devotion and loyalty to one another. i still don't think needless pain and bleeding needs to be a part of it, and i wonder how those who choose to forego this initiation are treated by their peers, but like you said, i wasn't there. my hat's off to all of you who serve or served. try to remember that i am on your side. really i am. i will withdraw now to lick my wounds and regroup. i am battered and bloodied but i stood my ground, made my point, and my flag, tattered though it may be, still flys high. i remain, john hacker.
This wasn't my intention, I felt a little put back, and how would you feel if someone insulted a tradition that you hold so dear to your heart?
As far as quote:it still sounds pretty freaking stupid to me. if wearing the uniform of your nations's military services doesn't do it for you, if serving your country is not enough, if you need some other thing to make you feel proud, then go on and stick yourself, pal. goes....
I'm not happy to say this, but there are quite a few that wear this Nations uniforms, for their own selfish reasons. This is a select brotherhood, and honestly someone who put's up this much of a fuss over a general discussion, not to mention being the FIRST to bring it off topic (that's right check your posts), probably wouldn't gain the right to ask.
Gotta run, just noticed the time, and I've got to do PCI's before we roll tonight. Thanks for the backup guy's, you know who you are, it's appreciated.
I guess that when you trash someone's beliefs, by calling them stupid...and silly, and all of that, it sounds as if you think the believer is also...so just because the words weren't "you are stupid", but more like "You think stupid", then I stand corrected for misinterpreting your words. Know this...I am not the only one who felt the condemnation of your comments, nor was I the only one who reacted in that way....And no, I never was in the military, but I do understand this issue. I know you didn't take away anyones freedoms....It's those attitudes that you portrayed here, that have been implemented in a like mannor in facilitating the banning of these rituals, by those nosey do-gooders who think they have the answer to everyone elces problems....
keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Comments
quote:Hacker you made your point...you don't understand the mindset of the warrior. Fine now it's time for you to let go. If you think pin pricks of pain and the gallons of the yucky blood expended is some stupid tribal ritual then please go thinking the way you do. There are many things that the "protected" don't understand. We don't expect you to understand.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
For the record, I never served, but I certainly CAN understand (at least as much as any civilian can) that this is NOT some childish, machismo game. As one of you said, it's a rite of passage, the "cherry on the sundae", the finishing touch; it shows you have arrived. Even as an outsider, I am sick to death of whiny second-guessers squealing in falsetto over yet another *sob* BRUTAL ritual by those... those... SAVAGES!!!(Hey, that's rather good! I think I'll use that somehow...)
If people who "kill people and break things" for a living, to keep my sorry civilian behind safe, want to get sloshed together and draw a few drops of each others' blood in a "tribal" ritual, THEN MORE POWER TO 'EM!!! THAT was all I was trying to say with my origional C&P (see, I do it too)! I just wish to hell all the "overcivilized", as Jeff Cooper is fond of calling them, would BUTT THE HELL OUT OF THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE MILITARY!!!! EVEN as an outsider, I can certainly understand that no, you can't teach a guy to kill, and then just expect him to shut it off and sit in on a love fest. IT DON'T WORK THAT WAY!
But that's just my $.02...
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
Grand daddy
I hope I didnt offend you with the "scroll past the thread" comment. It wasnt meant to offend anyone, or aimed at any one individual, it was just a comparison if you will.
SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
i never make misteakes.
FIGHTING SOLDIERS FROM THE SKY, FEARLESS MEN WHO JUMP AND DIE, MEN
WHO MEAN JUST WHAT THEY SAY, THE BRAVE MEN OF THE GREEN BERET.
SILVER WINGS UPON THEIR CHESTS, THESE ARE MEN, AMERICANS BEST
ONE HUNDRED MEN WILL TEST TODAY. BUT ONLY THREE WIN THE GREEN BERET.
TRAINED TO LIVE OFF NATURES LAND, TRAINED IN COMBAT, HAND TO HAND, MEN WHO FIGHT BY NIGHT AND DAY, COURAGE TAKEN FROM THE GREEN BERET.
SILVER WINGS UPON THEIR CHESTS, THESE ARE MEN, AMERICAS BEST, MEN WHO MEAN JUST WHAT THEY SAY, THE BRAVE MEN OF THE GREEN BERET.
BACK AT HOME A YOUNG WIFE WAITS, HER GREEN BERET HAS MET HIS FATE, HE HAS DIED FOR THOSE OPPRESSED, LEAVING HER THIS LAST REQUEST:PUT SIVLER WINGS ON MY SONS CHEST, MAKE HIM ONE OF AMERICAS BEST, HELL BE A MAN THEY'LL TEST ONE DAY, HAVE HIM WIN THE GREEN BERET.
THE BALLAD OF THE GREEN BERET
Hacker , your freedom of speech argument doesn't cut it. We all have freedom of speech. We say what we think, weather or not others agree.
The whole problem is when someone voices their opinion in such a mannor to degrade someone elces rights. When peoples opinions are used to interfere in the act of someone elce doing something they wish to do, you are then taking away their freedom without their consent. Calling them stupid for believing in something is just an insult, and you got back what you dished out. Say what you feel, then move over so the next guy can say what he feels, and so on. people can agree or dissagree. That dosn't make it acceptable for outsiders to dictate what insiders can or can't do. Thats freedom.
keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
http://travelor223.tripod.com
Edited by - travelor on 05/07/2002 11:57:43
Don't worry about the bullet with your name on it, worry about the fragmentation grenade addressed 'To Occupant'.
i never make misteakes.
Oh my God!!!! What if hacker really is real??? Will this story ever have an end? Beach
i never make misteakes.
The military service is an unusual institution, understood little by people, who for whatever reason, have never served. The service chooses you, not the other way around. And believe it or not, you have little to do with the selection. I thrived in the military, something I probably would have never done as a civilian. I got used to being able to trust my life, my family's life and the security of my country to people I had never met before. But because they wore the uniform I did, I knew I could count on them. Not everybody belongs in the service, but we don't need everybody. Ten real good men in a team are infinitely superior to one hundred mediocre ones with no common bond. And pledging ceremonies are part of that bond. How silly to see the hats fly into the air at the Academy, and how thrilling. But do all the hats fly. No. They were not chosen. They graduated, they wear the rank and the uniform but as military men they are not complete and never will be. Are they less a man than the others? Absolutely not but they are not military men and they will not stay the course. Is that a mark of shame? No. But they cannot claim the honor either. It's the same with pinning, those that want it, cannot be stopped, it is their earned right. Those that don't want to be pinned, well, they're probably in the wrong outfit.
So hacker, you're right. Pinning is a silly thing if you think it so. But now you might understand why others might see it differently. I admire your courage under fire. Ya ain't a quitter and maybe we missed one. That happens sometimes.
Clouder..
Damn! My nomex undies are still smokin'!
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.--Voltaire~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
i never make misteakes.
This wasn't my intention, I felt a little put back, and how would you feel if someone insulted a tradition that you hold so dear to your heart?
As far as quote:it still sounds pretty freaking stupid to me. if wearing the uniform of your nations's military services doesn't do it for you, if serving your country is not enough, if you need some other thing to make you feel proud, then go on and stick yourself, pal. goes....
I'm not happy to say this, but there are quite a few that wear this Nations uniforms, for their own selfish reasons. This is a select brotherhood, and honestly someone who put's up this much of a fuss over a general discussion, not to mention being the FIRST to bring it off topic (that's right check your posts), probably wouldn't gain the right to ask.
Gotta run, just noticed the time, and I've got to do PCI's before we roll tonight. Thanks for the backup guy's, you know who you are, it's appreciated.
Some people just shouldn't be allowed to breed
There is no freedom already and the next is certain death in a fema gulag.
Poor choice of destiny make thoose that for upholding the law go against the "LAW".
WyomingSwede
keep lots of extra uppers for your ar..you can change often enough to keep the thing from over heating...what ever caliber fits the moment..~Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
http://travelor223.tripod.com