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Martial arts training ?

blazeblaze Member Posts: 233 ✭✭✭
edited August 2002 in General Discussion
I recently enrolled in taekwondo classes & was curios as to if any of you take or have taken them, how long does it take to advance, did it get you in better shape, just wandering ?
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Comments

  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I took it for two years. Learned one thing, you don't advance by your belt. Just cause someone has a color belt, doesn't mean that they actually earned it, you'll learn that when you start fighting in tournaments.

    I was in the best shape of my life when I was taking Tae Kwon Do. I spent about 3 hours a day or more 5 days a week. I was in high school and didn't really have anything else to do, so I was able to spend the time needed. Can't do it now, don't have time.

    You'll know when you advance. It will take a while. The more time a day you spend, the more you'll advance faster. But you won't really start doing good till you get in shape, depending on what your shape is now, it could take 6 months or it could take a year. One thing I learned is if you see little kids running around your school with black belts on, then you need to find another school.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • blazeblaze Member Posts: 233 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    only 1 young person in my class with a black belt & he is the instructors son & seems very sharp, so did the training stay with you ?
  • RugerNinerRugerNiner Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm in Shape.

    Round is a Shape.

    Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
    Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
    NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
  • royc38royc38 Member Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Let me first say welcome to the martial arts. Although Tae Kwon Do is not my preferred choice, you will be amazed how much it will help you physically AND mentally. It sounds like you are in a small class. This will be a big help because the instructor is able to spend more one on one time which is the main advantage. The main thing is to get in touch with yourself as to why you are taking it. Just to be the tuffest on the block will not help you in the long run. It is a state of mind and if used properly will help you adress other porblems that may occur down life's happy highway. Good luck and stick with it.
  • Jody CommanderJody Commander Member Posts: 855 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I thought Sam Colt made all other forms of martial arts obsolete,
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Realy the best is a mix of all ,combined to your physical and mental attitudes ,a 4rth dan black belt does not prepare you for a real combat situation,many fall down under the simplest mistakes ,its quite different when your life is on a tread ,as a military trained guy trying to cut of your head with a broken bottle ,the best art is the art of not fighting at all,let the enemy do the fighting wile you do a work ,it's react to the environment as it goes and neutralize the threat as fast as you can with the least expense in energy....
    Learn psycology first....Black arts later...

    JD

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • blazeblaze Member Posts: 233 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    royc its not taken to be the tuffest on the block, I always wanted to do it & recently for some reason my 6 year old decided he would like to go do it so when he signeed up it was only an additional few dollars for the family plan so I thought I would join in, if nothing else to get in better shape, by the way what form do you participate in ?
  • royc38royc38 Member Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I take Kempo & Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Please don't take my last post the wrong way. I am commending you for your decision. The only reason I don't prefer your style is because they use about 75% feet and 25% hands in their techniques. I prefer a style that is more 50/50. That doesn't make it wrong.
  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    My wife took Tae Kwon Doe for a few years before I met her. She was asked to demonstrate forms at the olymic games (between matches), she turned down the opportunity because she was "shy", shy my butt, she didn't seem shy when I met her. Shy, yeah scared maybe, (no honey I didn't say scared). I still think that not going was a mistake.

    And yes, to prove she could do it, she smacked me a good one, knocked the wind out of me. I was mesmerized at the time, yeah thats it, I was mesmerized by, by, by "two points of her own way up high, workin on the", yeah thats it. Who the hell told her about that solar plexis thingee anyway? I could still take her though, really I could!

    On a different note, my dad was in Judo for thirteen years and never got a "black belt", he did not hold much merit in that belt stuff. He was even an instructor for awhile.
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Blaze to answer your question, yes it did stick with me some what. Though I don't practice, and I'm not in the shape I used to be, my mind set has stuck. It does change you quite a bit.

    And another piece of advice I wish I would have done. Don't quit. After you've been there for a couple of years, and are peaking, then start rounding you education a little. Enroll in a grappling class, maybe jujitsu (sp) or judo. That way you'll know some ground fighting as well as stand up fighting. And don't worry about getting youre kicks all high and pretty. Most kicking above the waist is a waste of time. The most effective kicking is to the legs. I know from experience getting in real fights. A good round house or side kick to the knee will end a fist fight pretty quickly.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • blazeblaze Member Posts: 233 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    royc I didnt take it the wrong way my question for you was just curiosity as to what you studied.
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    My nine year old son has a brown belt in karate,
    and we recently found out there is to be
    an $800. charge for black belt testing,and
    a camp.They don`t tell anybody about this
    charge while signing them.

    My 24 year old has a black belt in Tae Qwon Do.

    I`ve been wondering about all those little kids
    runnin` around with brown and black belts..I`m
    pretty sure I could whup a couple of`em.

    .218
  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Been there, Done that, Got x-rays, And bridge work to prove it.Had a He^l of a lot of fun.

    The most important things, Are not things.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want to compare the effectiveness of the different martial arts styles, go to Blockbuster and check out the Ultimate Fighting Championship. This is a real fight with no time limit and almost no rules. There are about 16 of these videos out now, but try to get one of the early ones. You will see a tae kwon do guy fight a wrestler. Then a kung fu practitioner will fight a bar bouncer. I have practiced tae kwon do and shido ryu, which is a Japanese style that favors low kicks and rib punches. I was very interested to see how the different styles would match up. One thing you quickly see is that the tae kwon do style, with the high kicks, doesn't do well against a wrestler or jiu jitsu style. The tae kwon do guy throws his kick and the wrestler grabs his leg, they go to ground, and the high kicker gets pinned in 15 seconds. Another interesting thing, good old redneck * whipping worked pretty well. Two guys would get to grappling, and one guy would punch the other guy in the head 15 times. Now you would have one guy with a broken jaw, and the other with a broken hand, but the guy with the broken hand was still conscious. In the first 5 or 6 UFCs, the best was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is wrestling with wrist locks and leg locks. Jiu Jitsu guys say that 95% of all fights go to ground eventually, so they practice on the ground and try to get the fight to the ground as soon as possible. In other words, a good jiu jitsu guy beats a good tae kwon do guy. But, I think tae kwon do is still very effective. On the street, your opponent doesn't know you are going to spin around and kick him in the face and he is not prepared to defend against a spinning hook kick.
    Very important is simply having the will to fight and knowing how to punch and kick, and knowing where to strike an opponent. Our Shido Ryu instructor would tell us to observe the cat. He is always relaxed but always ready to fight. The 10 lb cat will fight a 90 lb dog and win. So, if a bully outweighs you by 50 lbs, that is not so much.
    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

    Edited by - allen griggs on 07/30/2002 09:40:43

    Edited by - allen griggs on 07/30/2002 09:49:10
  • BuckshotBuckshot Member Posts: 54 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Im impressed with the experience and dedication...personnaly I didn't have all that ambition so I took Industrial Arts and bought a gun..dont have to get as close to the opponent..but.."Only the Shadow Knows."
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Yeah, Buckshot, but if you can leave a bad guy on the ground with a broken knee it is a lot less paperwork than leaving him on the ground with 4 bullet holes in him.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    My nine year old son has a brown belt in karate,
    and we recently found out there is to be
    an $800. charge for black belt testing,and
    a camp.They don`t tell anybody about this
    charge while signing them.

    My 24 year old has a black belt in Tae Qwon Do.

    I`ve been wondering about all those little kids
    runnin` around with brown and black belts..I`m
    pretty sure I could whup a couple of`em.

    .218







    We used to call those black belt factories. I don't repect any USTSA or nationally organized schools that allow 10 year olds to earn black belts that their parents payed for. Its not about degrees or belts, its about experience. When you buy belts thats all they are is bought belts, not earned belts. And I don't know a 10 year old in the world who could beat up a physically healthy adult. Do to lack of physical developement, there is no way a 10 year old should be able to earn such a rank in a real school.

    I'd advise checking out some of the smaller schools in the area.

    We used to get black belts from the local black belt factory all the time. It was called Tae Kwon Do Plus... Some of them haven't ever even been allowed to use face contact during sparring, and they are supposed to be black belts. It wasn't to uncommon for them to recieve a bloody nose if not a broken one, and never show up againl.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    quote:
    If you want to compare the effectiveness of the different martial arts styles, go to Blockbuster and check out the Ultimate Fighting Championship. This is a real fight with no time limit and almost no rules. There are about 16 of these videos out now, but try to get one of the early ones. You will see a tae kwon do guy fight a wrestler. Then a kung fu practitioner will fight a bar bouncer. I have practiced tae kwon do and shido ryu, which is a Japanese style that favors low kicks and rib punches. I was very interested to see how the different styles would match up. One thing you quickly see is that the tae kwon do style, with the high kicks, doesn't do well against a wrestler or jiu jitsu style. The tae kwon do guy throws his kick and the wrestler grabs his leg, they go to ground, and the high kicker gets pinned in 15 seconds. Another interesting thing, good old redneck * whipping worked pretty well. Two guys would get to grappling, and one guy would punch the other guy in the head 15 times. Now you would have one guy with a broken jaw, and the other with a broken hand, but the guy with the broken hand was still conscious. In the first 5 or 6 UFCs, the best was Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is wrestling with wrist locks and leg locks. Jiu Jitsu guys say that 95% of all fights go to ground eventually, so they practice on the ground and try to get the fight to the ground as soon as possible. In other words, a good jiu jitsu guy beats a good tae kwon do guy. But, I think tae kwon do is still very effective. On the street, your opponent doesn't know you are going to spin around and kick him in the face and he is not prepared to defend against a spinning hook kick.
    Very important is simply having the will to fight and knowing how to punch and kick, and knowing where to strike an opponent. Our Shido Ryu instructor would tell us to observe the cat. He is always relaxed but always ready to fight. The 10 lb cat will fight a 90 lb dog and win. So, if a bully outweighs you by 50 lbs, that is not so much.
    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

    Edited by - allen griggs on 07/30/2002 09:40:43

    Edited by - allen griggs on 07/30/2002 09:49:10


    The biggest downfall with the ultimate fighting championship is that it had rules. Though not many, it did have them. When you get a crack head on the street who's trying to kill you with his bare hands, then there aren't any rules. All the rules you learned goes right out the door. Though you may be very experienced in a martial art, and an excellent tournament fighter, it only gives you a possible edge on the situation, it doesn't guarantee anything. I find that some of the most effecting on the ground fighting techniques are those that I never leared in any self defense class. Bite and gouge. Bite down on whatever you can as hard as you can, and gouge their eyeballs out. Stuff that they don't allow in UFC or any tournaments I've ever heard of, but in my experience is some of the most effective tactics I've ever used.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • elmos608elmos608 Member Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've been involved in Kung Fu San Soo, Krav Maga and Koga "arrest control techniques" for the last six years. If your looking for a very practical martial art with some of the most demanding physical fitness, I would look into Krav Maga. It will kick you butt!
  • twinstwins Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    leeblackman,
    I like that, belt factories, ain't that the truth.
    twins
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When my son was 7 years old there was this Hell spawn of the same age in school wearing a black belt he "won" in the weekend kicking the butts of all other kids in the group, he went to my son and kicked his face ,my son picked up a chair and smashed it on the kids head..
    (SELF DEFENSE)

    End of the blackbelt at an early age falacy......

    Also end of an instructor after I talked to him and expresed my POINT of opinion ,(He lost his licence) ,sometimes people think they may not be held responsible for what they teach a minor ,well the law is
    verry clear in that ,for that reason I say no belt to minors until they reach manhood ,and stick purely to ethics and self-defense teach offence only as student demostrates ethics and maturity under stress .

    JD


    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • BlueTicBlueTic Member Posts: 4,072
    edited November -1
    Judge - did you just say no belts to minors? My Wife just got her Brown belt, my daughter and son also. They take the same classes in TaeKwonDo and have been for almost 2 years. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. My Daughter is the most limber in her class and has great form (17) - she does lack the strength. My boy has great form and strength for a 12yr old - but lacks in discipline. My Wife loves doing her Katas - but is lacking in strength. They may be going to a Blackbelt factory, but I only made it to Green belt 28years ago - so what do I know - I did take courses in SanKajo when in corrections (and even used it a few times). I am just thrilled that they are continuing to go 2-3 times a week (except when we were on vacation). My wife likes to show off her bruises and the kids have had modified contact (full head gear - feet and hands). I guess I am trying to convince myself that they actually have achieved the Brown, But they need a reward system. I have seen that they are better than some but do lack in the actual sparing abilities.
    What is more important to you - fighting abilities - self defense - or the discipline of the sport? MHO you can have the fighting abillities and still lose through lack of discipline. You can have the discipline but lose to strength. You do not lose your ability to extricate yourself from a potential attack if you have discipline first and training - what does a scumbag care if you have a blue, brown or black when you have just broken his knee outside the mall (and drove away - gee look at that guy - must have fallen down).
    But "no belt to minors" just does not sound right - kinda like - you can't own a gun untill you are 18.

    Only a FOOL uses the "I'm invincable, because of the color of my belt" theory
    IF YOU DON'T LIKE MY RIGHTS - GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY (this includes politicians)

    Edited by - BlueTic on 07/31/2002 16:11:49
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    When I was taking Shido Ryu, the Japanese style that emphasizes low kicks, I would sneak up to Atlanta once a month and work out with a Tae Kwon Do school. I say sneak up, my sensei, as a Japanese practitioner, did not want us working out in Korean style schools. I was just a green belt. I was sparring with a tae kwon do black belt and he did a spinning head kick. I took half a step back and caught his foot. He was standing there with one foot on the ground and one in my hand, like a wishbone, looking around like, What the @#$#? The instructor ran over and told me, Let go, no fair. He admonished me to never do that again. I liked those guys and I know that instructor would have mopped up the floor with me, he could throw a side kick to the jaw faster than I could punch. I kept working out with the tae kwon do boys but I thought that was funny for them to pull the rule book out for a fight.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    hehehe, cheat in a fight, heck yea, its rule #1. Take every advantage you can, lie cheat, steal, kill, anything to win, cause in the real world winning and losing means living or dying.

    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • 218Beekeep218Beekeep Member Posts: 3,033
    edited November -1
    I beat the $h!+ out of Chuck Norris one time.
    Then Bruce Lee came runnin` over there,like he
    was gunna be able ta do somethin`.

    So I told him if he wanted to just leave before I
    kick the dog $h!+ out`a him too,it would be cool,and
    I wouldn`t tell anybody how he walked oway with his
    tail between his legs.So he agreed that that would be
    in his best interest.Then I woke up,sweatin`,breathin`
    real hard,and fearin` for my life.

    .218
  • iron sightsiron sights Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okay, I am Iron Sights son. I have been training in the Martial Arts since I was 5(I'm 15 now), and I'm hear to tell ya'll the REALITY of the Martial Arts.

    After learning jiu-jitsu from a Japanese master in the early 1900s, the Gracie family of Brazil (Carlos and Helio, in particular) revolutionized a system of fighting that is deemed by many to be the most complete and realistic self-defense system in the world.

    Brazilian jiu-jitsu is characterized by its use of grappling to force a conflict to the ground, and then, using various arms locks and chokes, submitting an opponent. In addition, an emphasis is placed on gaining and maintaining advantageous positions in order to give the practitioner opportunities to strike or escape.

    In alignment with its traditions, Brazilian jiu-jitsu is generally practiced while wearing a gi (uniform), though such practice does not limit the effectiveness of jiu-jitsu when used without a uniform.

    Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu is the best form of self defense out there. There are a number of reasons why BJJ is superior to ALL other Martial Arts. Here is why.

    This art is different from most other martial arts in that it is very realistic in its training. Here are some of the main reasons why it's different and why this art is so effective.

    1.) We train with the assumption that our opponent will most likely be larger, stronger, and know how to fight. This is opposed to many martial arts which assume the attacker will not be skilled at fighting.

    2.) We fight exactly the way we train. We practice our techniques exactly the way we do them in a fight. This is opposed to many martial arts styles which spend hours and hours practicing forms which scarcely resemble what the person's body will be doing in an actual fight.

    3.) We test everything we do by spending a great deal of time sparring under varying conditions against people with different types of training and different body styles. We spar reallistically in our club (full contact) and have rarely had a serious injury. We also test our abilities in competitions (both tournament Jiu Jitsu and no rules). This is opposed to martial artists who say that it is too dangerous to spar or spar realistically. So they don't.

    ALL Martial Arts that are "too deadly" to spar and train 100% dont work in a real fight. For the people that get into Martil Arts to exercise, I would advise you not to. If you want to get in shape and fast, but still want to be connected to Martial Arts, I would choose Boxing, or Kick Boxing. Followed by Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, and Wrestling. Doing hours of forms will not get you into shape.

    Now, to self defense. Do you want to trade strikes with somebody bigger and stronger than you? Even if you hit your opponent right on the chin, the fight will more than likely continue. Get the fight to the ground, where you have LEVERAGE. Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu addresses the most important part of REAL FIGHTING. BJJ teaches you how to take your opponent to the ground, and dominate, even if your opponent is much bigger. If you dont beleive me rent any Ultimate Fighting Championship of 1-5. Royce Gracie, Son of Helio Gracie, who is the founder of Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu, defeated men over a hundred pounds heavier than him. Somebody mentioned something about biting your attacker. Biting Royce Gracie, or any Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu Blue Belt, will only make your @$$ kicking that much more severe. Also, if you are in a fight on the street with some low life mugger, do you REALLY want to bite him? Think about, most of your low life muggers probably have some stuff that soap and water wont wash off if you know what I mean.

    Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu is also very good for a women, mainly because it relies 100% on leverage and technique, not strength. If a women really wants to learn self defense, she should go find a Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu school. If she lives in Los Angeles, she should go to the Gracie Academy of Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu ( www.gracieacademy.com). If there is no BJJ school in your area, buy a tape called "Rapesafe" from the Gracie Academy at http://www.gracieacademy.com/store/home.html

    Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu has been, and is still being tought to the navy seals, FBI, CIA, and numerous State and Local officials. And BJJ is now be adopted as the basic training for self defense in the army.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you are actually 15, Son of Iron Sights, my compliments to your English teachers and to your parents. That was an eloquent treatise. You bring up one of the big problems I had in my study of Tae Kwon Do and Shido Ryu. We never practiced full contact, we always practiced just missing our opponent. Even then we didn't do nearly enough sparring, we wasted so much time with kata or "weapons", spinning around with an Okinawan rice hook. I have not had the chance to take the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu but maybe I will some day.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • iron sightsiron sights Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    4GodandCountry- Actually, I dont remember. The only thing I remember was Royce Gracie tapping out Severn with a basic choke in Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, the triangle choke. They only fought once, and Royce beat him and had his hand raised without a scratch on him. You are wrong.

    Speed, Power, and placement of strikes, only works against the weaker, and untrained. Speed and Power are about COMPLETELY USELESS, when you are in a fight and on the bottem. What happends in a street fight, two guys throw a punch or two, and CLINCH. Now, how are you going to hit somebody when you are in a clinch with them? Your not. Why do you think Boxing refs break the boxers when they get in a clinch? Because the goal of boxing is to knock your opponent out, and you cant KNOCK ANYBODY OUT from a CLINCH! I have seen top Kickboxers fight you average BJJ Blue Belt, and the Blue belt wins. A average BJJ Blue Belt, will beat any of your top strikers, boxers, I dont care. Put Mike Tyson in the ring with a decent blue belt, and the belt will win.

    Once again, Speed and Power only work against the weaker. What happends if you get in a fight with a bodybuilder? Do you want to go POWER FOR POWER with him? Placement of strikes is okay if the person stands there and says, okay, hit me in the throat. But lets just assume here for a moment that the person is throwing strikes back at you, and like everybody does in a streetfight, clinch with you. Your not going to hit me in the throat, or take out a guy or whatever when I'm that close to you. Thats where most Martial Arts go wrong. They make a fight harder than it really is. Sure, a ridge hand strike to my wing pipe will hurt a lot, but am I just going to stand there and let you do it? No. You'll never catch a ridge hand or whatever to the throat if the person is moving. Sure, a spinning hook kick might take my head off, but am I going to stand there and let you get your perfect form? Nope. Youll never be able to use a spinning hook kick in a real fight. Thats where most martial arts go wrong and why BJJ prevales. Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu says "hey, this guy wants to knock me out. I dont want that. So I am going to clinch, take him down, mount him, and choke or whatever."
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So sorry, Son of Iron Sights, but I think Severn did beat Royce once. I know in the first UFC Royce beat Severn in a fabulous fight. I havn't seen those tapes in years but I think Severn took him in another great bout, maybe in UFC 5 or 6 or 7. I would not describe it as Gracie being "demolished".

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • iron sightsiron sights Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have trained with Royce several times, and Severn has NEVER beaten Royce. They have only fought once. Ya'll are mistaking Dan Severn for Ken Shamrock in the UFC 5 Superfight. Ken took Royce down, and layed on top for for thirty minutes and didnt do anything. His coach could be heard hollaring "Hold on Kenny! Only 6 minutes left" Royce had already Choke out Shamrock in UFC1 and Shamrock just wanted to get the draw out of Royce to say that he tied with the man. The fight was ruled a draw, and Shamrock about pi$$ed his pants he was so happy. All he did was sit in Royce guard with his arms tucked in and his head stuck in Royces stomach for the whole fight. Nobody in the Martial Arts community recongnizes that Ken "wooped" or beat Royce. Every recognizes that Royce choked him out once and little Kenny was too scared to fight the second and stalled, even with his massive weight advantage.
  • iron sightsiron sights Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    4GodandCountry- Your memory is bad. I have the video at my house, and there is no need to watch it being that I know I am right. Let me find some pics and resutls on the net for you. Please bet me twenty bucks, I have no job and need money.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So sorry, 4 God and Country, Gracie did beat Severn. I think it was UFC I. I saw that giant Severn and that scrawny Brazilian boy and I thought, you better get back to Rio and play soccer, this American bad * will kill you. The fight lasted 15 minutes and Gracie was on his back. As I remember, Severn was standing and Gracie got him in a leg lock. But, I get the feeling that Son of Iron Sights has watched it more recently so he may be right about the choke hold. I will take your bet for $20 and I will go check it out again to verify.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Son of Iron Sights- was that draw in the Shamrock fight the one where Gracie was injured? Or, was Gracie injured one time and couldn't come out against Severn?

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    By the way, Son of Iron Sights, I think you are too dismissive of punching and kicking. A 14 year old boy could kick an NFL lineman in the nuts and that fight would be over. That kid probably couldn't beat a 300lb steroid infested giant with jiu jitsu. Also, a knee kick will end a fight in 3 seconds and you definitely can kick a guy in the knee in a street fight--as was said earlier, if 3 guys come at you you better get one in the knee and one in the nuts, I can't see jiu jitsu saving you against 3 determined thugs. Also, what if there is glass all over the street, or what if you are at a construction site and there are nails all over the ground. You win the fight on the ground and your back is cut to shreds. Now I got to go get UFC 5, 6, and 4 and get to the bottom of this Severn dispute, But Royce kicked his big American * in UFC 1.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    What ever Iron sight's son says. I have a $100 to back it up. I am fortunate enough to have this young man for a neighbor. Yes he is 15 years old. He is being very modest about his abilities. I have seen him take down and tap out 25 year old Leos, That were in great shape.

    He has a good back ground in several of the striking arts. When he first started BJJ, I told him what many of you are telling him about real life fighting. The real fact is that if you went up against this young man you could get real dead.

    The most important things, Are not things.
  • iron sightsiron sights Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    4GodandCountry- I just got back from training, so I didnt have any time find that stuff, which I will do later. Let me straighten everybody out. Dan Severn didnt even fight in UFC1. KEN SHAMROCK did and thats who Royce beat. In UFC3 Royce fought a guy named KIMO who was very big, and very strong, and had previous experiance in BJJ. Royce armlocked him in about 5 minutes but was so winded he couldnt continue to fight HAROLD HOWARD, not Severn. In UFC4, Severn took Royce down, and about 12 minutes into the 15 minute fight, the cable company just ran out of time and shut the even off. Leaving everyone to beleive that Severn won. Severns little fairy slaps didnt touch Royces head. Yeah, when he started throwing some slaps at THE SIDE of Royces head it surely looked like he was kicking his butt, but Royce fought on like nothing happend. About three minutes after the cable comp. shut off the event, Royce cought him in a choke and won. They have never fought since or before. Now in UFC5 SHAMROCK fought Royce and I already described what happend.

    I dont think Royce is unbeatable. He has lost. But ya'll dont know that, mainly because yall are not into this sport as much as I am.

    Varmit Hunter, thank you very much.

    By the way, I have submitted guys that weigh 215 pounds of roided muscle, and in a real fight I would stand a much better chance of beating him with my Jiu-Jitsu than going for a kick in the go nads. Remember what I talked about? Yeah, kicking somebody in the nuts would hurt, but are they gonna stand there and let them do it?
  • iron sightsiron sights Member Posts: 41 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://www.adcombat.net/nhbdata/Fighters_Ranks/frame_nhb.htm Click here.

    Royces never fought Harold Howard, they were both in the ring, and Royce was dehydrated and couldnt fight, so they through in the towl. So they never fought.
  • leeblackmanleeblackman Member Posts: 5,303 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think the best fighter I've ever know is a fireman named Billy Singletary. He's a local round Beaumont, Texas. He trains at Fred Simon's. A person I respect very much. A very quite person, doesn't go around showing off telling people he's this or that. Doesn't even care. But he's wise, and has alot of experience. When you listen to a fighter who has alot of experience you can learn alot.

    I don't believe in "battle of the styles." People are always claiming one style is better than another, but thats a crock. Its all about experience, not technique. Sure technique helps, but no matter what technique you use, the most experienced fighter always wins, just a theory of mine, that so far, hasn't had an exception I've yet seen.

    And then you get people who are always saying they are bad, and lalala. But the fact of the matter is THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOMEONE BETTER.

    Most of these organized arts are nothing more than SPORTS. Like baseball or soccer. And I've seen in person a person who thought they were big and bad, cause they had a third degree black belt in karate, get their rear kicked by a nobody punk on the street.


    If I'm wrong please correct me, I won't be offended.

    The sound of a 12 gauge pump clears a house fatser than Rosie O eats a Big Mac !
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,706 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, Son of Iron Sights, I am glad you have a background in the striking arts because it sounded like you were dismissing kicking and punching out of ignorance. As you can tell from my first post here, I have long been a big fan of Royce and Co. But, yes, a guy will stand there and get kicked in the nuts in a street fight. I saw it happen, and it can do more than "hurt", you can get a crushed testicle that has to be surgically removed. And the last street fight I got in, there was one punch landed. I gave the other guy a palm heel strike to the jaw like I was taught in Shido Ryu and he went down and out. I walked off without a scratch on me, just like Royce did. Experience proves, as other posters above have well stated, that there is a place in the street fight for striking. I think some of the above posters have a lot more experience in street fighting than you do, and you might do well to listen to them and not come off as being so arrogant.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

    Edited by - allen griggs on 08/02/2002 01:26:33
  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Leeblackman, Billy is the best I have ever seen. Traned with him thirty years ago.

    Fred Simion is the finest man I have ever known......

    The most important things, Are not things.

    Edited by - varmit hunter on 08/02/2002 06:06:26
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