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I bought a Stolen Gun
RugerNiner
Member Posts: 12,636 ✭✭✭
I won a 1968 Marlin in 35 Remington back in December 2007 on an auction. The seller was a gun store here in Pennsylvania so I decided to pick it up. I drove 90 miles one way to get this gun.
I get a call from a detective last night saying the gun was reported in September 2008 to the police as being stolen. The detective wants to pick up the gun, bring me the money I paid for the gun and drop off some paper work saying that he gave me back what I paid for the gun. Even though our conversation was civil, the detective told me he could get a search warrant for my place and take the gun without any compensation.
It seems that two men were partners and the one man loaned two guns to the other man (I don't know when). The partnership fell apart and the one man sold the guns to a dealer.
I talked to the dealer afterwards and he told me he was compensated for the other gun that he hadn't sold yet and for work that he did on it. He also told me that the man who sold the guns is not getting charged with anything. Now something sounds fishy.
The detective told me the original owner wants the guns back because they are family heirlooms. Sounds to me like seller's remorse.
I really don't want to give up the gun. I said I would to the detective until I found out the person who sold the guns isn't getting charged with anything, he just has to pay the money back for the guns he sold. I have since bought expensive ammo and dies for this gun.
I was wondering what kind of recourse I have in this situation?
I get a call from a detective last night saying the gun was reported in September 2008 to the police as being stolen. The detective wants to pick up the gun, bring me the money I paid for the gun and drop off some paper work saying that he gave me back what I paid for the gun. Even though our conversation was civil, the detective told me he could get a search warrant for my place and take the gun without any compensation.
It seems that two men were partners and the one man loaned two guns to the other man (I don't know when). The partnership fell apart and the one man sold the guns to a dealer.
I talked to the dealer afterwards and he told me he was compensated for the other gun that he hadn't sold yet and for work that he did on it. He also told me that the man who sold the guns is not getting charged with anything. Now something sounds fishy.
The detective told me the original owner wants the guns back because they are family heirlooms. Sounds to me like seller's remorse.
I really don't want to give up the gun. I said I would to the detective until I found out the person who sold the guns isn't getting charged with anything, he just has to pay the money back for the guns he sold. I have since bought expensive ammo and dies for this gun.
I was wondering what kind of recourse I have in this situation?
Keep your Powder dry and your Musket well oiled.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
Comments
It's not your gun, unfortunately. It sucks but it's not yours, it was stolen. All the money you dropped on stuff can't change that fact. You're disappointed and I understand that
How is a detective going to get a search warrant to take the gun from your house, if nobody is too be charged in the crime?
I would tell the guy I sold it or swapped it at a gunshow.
I won a 1968 Marlin in 35 Remington back in December 2007 on an auction. The seller was a gun store here in Pennsylvania so I decided to pick it up. I drove 90 miles one way to get this gun.
I get a call from a detective last night saying the gun was reported in September 2008 to the police as being stolen. The detective wants to pick up the gun, bring me the money I paid for the gun and drop off some paper work saying that he gave me back what I paid for the gun. Even though our conversation was civil, the detective told me he could get a search warrant for my place and take the gun without any compensation.
It seems that two men were partners and the one man loaned two guns to the other man (I don't know when). The partnership fell apart and the one man sold the guns to a dealer.
I talked to the dealer afterwards and he told me he was compensated for the other gun that he hadn't sold yet and for work that he did on it. He also told me that the man who sold the guns is not getting charged with anything. Now something sounds fishy.
The detective told me the original owner wants the guns back because they are family heirlooms. Sounds to me like seller's remorse.
I really don't want to give up the gun. I said I would to the detective until I found out the person who sold the guns isn't getting charged with anything, he just has to pay the money back for the guns he sold. I have since bought expensive ammo and dies for this gun.
I was wondering what kind of recourse I have in this situation?
talk to an attorney
B: Tough it out - maybe get a visit from the Constabulary
C: Take the Money, and go shopping on GB
As an officer, I would never act as a collection agency for someone like that. 9 months is not a reasonable time frame to report your guns stolen in my opinion, not without some circumstances like you have been overseas for a year and didn't know they were gone or something like that.
Also, for the dealer to take the money makes me think that he might have seen this happen before and knows that he might not win. You might ask the dealer, he would know about property hearings and the like in that jurisdiction.
Good luck, thats for sure.
Yeah, something is fishy, especially the part about nobody is being charged.
Is the detective you're talking to in your jurisdiction, or the one where the gun was 'stolen?'
Ask for a property hearing. Hopefully the jurisdiction is different where you are than the one who reported it stolen. You may get to keep the gun once the truth is found out.
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If it was your gun that was stolen and then re-sold, would you want the guy who won it in good faith to be able to keep it?
It's not your gun, unfortunately. It sucks but it's not yours, it was stolen. All the money you dropped on stuff can't change that fact. You're disappointed and I understand that
Reread my post!
The gun may not have been stolen.
Most likely it's a dispute between two ex-partners.
quote:txlawdog Posted - 11/29/2008 : 1:27:54 PM
. I would probably take the money that the original owner is offering and run with it. Like that detective said, you don't have to get paid for the gun, they could just confiscate it as stolen.
Good luck, thats for sure.
The original owner is not paying the money, the guy who sold the guns to the dealer is.
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It doesn't make much sense to me, all we have to do it dig up a serial # off the auction site report it stolen and they'll go pick the gun up and bring it over?
I've worked a few of these friends/family members 'theft' cases over the years. Once it's made clear the 'thieving party' is going to jail, they usually drop the case and let the property go.
From your original post, it looks like you live in a different jurisdiction than where the 'theft' took place. Is this true? Is the detective from your area or where it was stolen? If he's from the other area, why isn't he going through the LEO's in your area?
Lots of unanswered questions here.
The guy that sold the guns to the dealer would be going to jail, or I would NOT be looking for the guns.
I've worked a few of these friends/family members 'theft' cases over the years. Once it's made clear the 'thieving party' is going to jail, they usually drop the case and let the property go.
From your original post, it looks like you live in a different jurisdiction than where the 'theft' took place. Is this true? Is the detective from your area or where it was stolen? If he's from the other area, why isn't he going through the LEO's in your area?
Lots of unanswered questions here.
which is exactly why I would get an attorney involved. I would force answrs to those questions. Stuff that smells bad is usually rotten. If no charges are pressed then it sounds like a civil matter between the two
Sounds like that when you bought it, it was crossed referanced with the list. That's how they put 2+2 together... One pone call and you can find out if it's stolen
quote:Originally posted by Rebel_James
The guy that sold the guns to the dealer would be going to jail, or I would NOT be looking for the guns.
I've worked a few of these friends/family members 'theft' cases over the years. Once it's made clear the 'thieving party' is going to jail, they usually drop the case and let the property go.
From your original post, it looks like you live in a different jurisdiction than where the 'theft' took place. Is this true? Is the detective from your area or where it was stolen? If he's from the other area, why isn't he going through the LEO's in your area?
Lots of unanswered questions here.
which is exactly why I would get an attorney involved. I would force answrs to those questions. Stuff that smells bad is usually rotten. If no charges are pressed then it sounds like a civil matter between the two
Tell the Officer to bring you a Warrant and you get a receipt for the pickup. I believe he won't get the warrant. Is this officer from your jurisdiction? You have proof you paid for it. Then you seek compensation from whom you purchased it. My question is How did the officer find you? Call BATFE and ask their opinion. Fishy fishy fishy
My local Leo's would be contacted, I would get paperwork from them if it is stolen not from some out of towner officer.
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Call your local police, give then the serial # and ask them to check to see if it is one the national stolen firearm list.....If it is...You better give it back, before
Sounds like that when you bought it, it was crossed referanced with the list. That's how they put 2+2 together... One pone call and you can find out if it's stolen
1. If you call your local LEO's, you'll probably have to give them the gun if it is listed as stolen on NCIC. If this does happen, tell them you want to file for a property hearing for a judge to determine ownership.
2. WHAT LIST? The gun was reported stolen 10 months AFTER Rugerniner took possession.
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Detective is in Fort Washington above Phlly, Gun Store is 45 minutes southwest of that and I'm 90 miles southwest of the Gun Store.
Tell that Officer to contact your local PD or sheriff's dept. I bet you that game will be over quickly. In fact , ask him for a badge number so you can call your local. He is full of it I bet. WTH isn't he going thru the locals anyway. He is bluffing you. Screw his paperwork he wants to supply you with. You just don't hand over a firearm to an out of towner policeman.
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Man I hate getting threatened from the police when I am the victim!
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quote:Originally posted by RugerNiner
Detective is in Fort Washington above Phlly, Gun Store is 45 minutes southwest of that and I'm 90 miles southwest of the Gun Store.
Tell that Officer to contact your local PD or sheriff's dept. I bet you that game will be over quickly. In fact , ask him for a badge number so you can call your local. He is full of it I bet. WTH isn't he going thru the locals anyway. He is bluffing you. Screw his paperwork he wants to supply you with. You just don't hand over a firearm to an out of towner policeman.
That's one of the things I'm thinking too. The detective is trying to 'recover' the gun for a friend without going through proper procedure. I'd make him go through your local LEO agency and PROVE the gun is stolen.
One other thing comes to mind. If he goes through your local LEO's, get them to check NCIC for the stolen date and the date it was entered as stolen. You can lie to NCIC about the date it was reported stolen, but you can't lie to NCIC about the date it was entered on the system. Even if it is listed as stolen, and I wonder if it is or not, I'll bet comparing those two dates will bring up more rats in the barn!
How do you even know this guy is an officer? A detective would know the law and procedure. He sure isn't following procedure.
Best, Joe
DO as others have suggested. Get this guys badge number and agency. THEN call YOUR local PD and find out IF it is stolen.
If it IS stolen, then do what is legally correct.
If NOT stolen, report this moron and file a report, and SUE the * off the FFL for freely giving away private information.
This story your telling has too many holes to sound plauseable. Before I gave this dink anything, I would be DAMN sure I knew what was going on.
Clouder..
You're dealing with a cop, niner; assume he's crooked, cut your losses, and get on with your life. Reporting this to ANOTHER cop simply compounds your exposure to more of the same.
Clouder..
Glad to see you think all cops are crooked!
I had a case once where a new car dealer reported two cars stolen. When I went to take the cars from the people who had them they had some paperwork showing they'd bought the cars. I took the cars, but put them in the county lot to keep storage from building up, and directed them to talk to a lawyer. The case went to court and they got to keep the cars.
quote:Originally posted by whiteclouder
You're dealing with a cop, niner; assume he's crooked, cut your losses, and get on with your life. Reporting this to ANOTHER cop simply compounds your exposure to more of the same.
Clouder..
Glad to see you think all cops are crooked!
I had a case once where a new car dealer reported two cars stolen. When I went to take the cars from the people who had them they had some paperwork showing they'd bought the cars. I took the cars, but put them in the county lot to keep storage from building up, and directed them to talk to a lawyer. The case went to court and they got to keep the cars.
I guess I am confused here. Why would you take possession of these cars if they had paperwork to show ownership? Did the case wind up in criminal court, or civil?
I sounds like two or more people are trying to run a bluff on you, but your problem is it could cost you more than it's worth to call the bluff even if you win. Lawyers want to get paid whether they win or lose, and there is a possibility that it isn't a bluff.
First you have to decide if it's worth the time, trouble and money to dispute it. I would, but that's just me.
I would do all of the above. Get a lawyer, contact the local law, etc.
I wish you the best of luck. Let us know what happens.
It also sounds like the detective is helping out a friend and may have been a little outside his jurisdiction when he claimed he could get a warrant to search your place and take the gun (i think if he could do that he would)
usually when a police report is filed it is up to the prosecutor to charge a suspect and it's out of the victims hands so my guess is that the case was filed and rejected by their office on the grounds i stated earlier...it is a civil matter