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Shooting a Zebra??? Why?????

paboogerpabooger Member Posts: 13,953
edited September 2002 in General Discussion
Watched a hunting show today, where they were archery hunting for Zebras. Don't get me wrong, I love to hunt as much as the next guy, maybe more, but this kinda turned my stomach. What sport is there in waiting for a Zebra to come to the watering hole and shhoting him with an arrow? Kinda like going out behinf the barn and shooting the old mans pony!!!!
Shows like this, in my opinion, are what gets these anti hunting fanatics on our backs!!! Just my opinion!
Guess ill go do some real hunting and go down to the local farm and shoot some cats!!!
Pabooger
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Comments

  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    You could probably substitute any number of different animals and come up with the same observation. Where neither the trophy or the meat seems hardly the point, I question what the sporting purpose is, other than, as in the case of zebras, to provide upolstery for some pimp's Seville.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There is a letter in Guns & Ammo from a gun enthusiast who is turned off by the pictures of 'smiley faced' guys standing over the hulks of beautiful dead animals. A lot of shooting enthusiasts own animals, from livestock to pets, and would agree with you. I am one who is beginning to tire of the "trophy" mentality, whether it's for a rug or a head on the wall. It's obvious that a man with a modern weapon is far superior to the unsuspecting animal grazing a hundred yards away. Jeff Cooper used to say that true sportsmen hunted in Africa where the game has a chance to kill you. But I'm not sure that even there, a long shot with a .416 Rigby is exactly even odds, and now we have real poaching problems and stand to lose major breeds to extinction, from the locals who illegally kill for the tourist and export trade. That takes the "harvesting" aspect out of it and turns it into selfishness.

    I'm far more interested in the defensive and tactical aspects of shooting, and have hunted very little, and lost interest. I'd say if you're interested in killing, join the military where the targets shoot back, and need neutralizing.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I also disagree with trophy hunting which removes the finest from the herd and and presumably good genetics from the population.

    I do hunt, however, and eat what I hunt.

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
  • kaliforniankalifornian Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Ditto on the trophy hunting but thining out populations, killing off excess young males, etc., have been proven to improve the quality of herd animals and I'm in favor of that. We get the meat and hide, nature gets a healthier and stronger animal population.

    So many guns, so little money . . .
  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I'm a hunter, and damn proud of it.

    There is so much more to it than the simplistic "if you're interested in killing" phrase would imply. Actually, that phrase is quite insulting. Unless you are some sort of unfeeling automaton, every kill brings with it an odd mixture of joy and satisfaction of a job well done, but tinged with a sadness at taking a life. If you've never been there, you probably wouldn't understand.

    Society today has gotten so disconnected from Ma Nature that sometimes it seems like folks have forgotten that their food comes from "beautiful dead animals". Ever thought about the cute little calf that grew up to become the burger you tossed on the grill last night?

    I sure as Hell ain't about to apologize because I am willing and able to kill my own food, instead of paying somebody else to do my killing for me, which is what you do every time you buy a steak, or eat a tuna sandwich. Not saying that everybody should have to be a hunter, as not everybody is cut out for it. All I ask is that you don't put me down as you're chewing that store bought meat, okay?

    And, yes, I do have some antlers on the wall. Ain't going to apologize for those, either. I ate the critters that originally wore those antlers, and whenever I look at them on the wall, I get to remember in vivid detail the animals and the hunt itself.
  • paboogerpabooger Member Posts: 13,953
    edited November -1
    Yep I agree, I have a few antlers on the wall, and I ate the meat!!!
    But there aint no Damm horse on the wall, and a Zebra to me is a Horse!!! My wife will tell you That the only horses * around this house is me!!!
    I might be a red neck but I ain't eating no darn striped horse!! It just ain't right I tell ya. Pa.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Um, actually horse meat is pretty good.

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    OK.....hunt all you like. I don't begrudge you the "pleasure". But don't try to tell me that outsmarting a harmless vegetarian with the mind of a 3 month old puppy is all that challenging. And you DEFINITELY don't want to tell me about the big cat, elephant, rhino or other "trophy" animal you killed.

    Mudge the non-hunter


    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • paboogerpabooger Member Posts: 13,953
    edited November -1
    Hedog:: Ill have to take your word for it, cause I ain't eating it!!! Ive ate Woodchuck, and Raccooon, and maybe a live goldfish or too, (back in my younger days} but not eating no striped horse!!! Nope Nope it just ain't right!!!
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Someone wants a Zebra Hide, or Zebra meat, whatever-thats there businesss and I just assume not pass judgement on a hunter who decides he wants to go after that game.
    If any hunter questions the validity of going after such game, remember, that one can easily come up with a reason, on par with your reasoning for not hunting such gam as Zebra, why one should not hunt whitetails.

    "Sometimes the people have to give up some individual rights for the safety of society."
    -Bill Clinton(MTV interview)
  • paboogerpabooger Member Posts: 13,953
    edited November -1
    Well maybe you are right, but money was tight when we were growing up, and our family lived on deer meat at least five days a week! Thank god they were available cause Id have hated to tell everbody that I grew up on Horse meat!!!
    Pa
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I think Pabooger's point is that for him shooting a zebra is like shooting a horse with stripes. The issue is not whether this should be left up to hunters to decide, but whether those engaged in such activity are hunters in the first place. A similar distinction can be made between sport fishing and shooting fish in a barrel. Does judgment of the person engaged in the latter activity alone make Pabooger's opinion less valid?

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mudge (the non-hunter) -

    I have as high a regard for you as I do any member on this board, but ..........., we will have to agree to disagree on this subject.

    Like I said before, not everybody is cut out to be a hunter. That's fine. I don't begrudge you for your decision not to participate, as long as you don't put me down at the same time you are eating your beefsteak. To do so is rather hypocritical, don't you think?

    Comparing the mind of a mature whitetail buck to that of a three month old puppy is ludicrous. Some day, just for the heck of it, go out afield and try (unarmed, of course), to see how close that you can get to one! Keep in mind, I am not referring to a deer in a zoo, or one of the many that hang around suburbia. Try it with one out in the wild. Then try approaching a three month old puppy. After you have done these things, come back and tell me which was easier!

    As far as "harmless vegetarians" go, doesn't that pretty much describe just about everything we all eat every day? Do you eat beef, or any other meat, in any form? Pretty harmless vegetarians there, that somebody killed so that you could eat it. Are you going to go up to your butcher and take him to task for that? I wouldn't think so. So, somebody gets paid to kill, that's okay. I am willing to do it myself, that's bad? Sorry, I don't get it.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Right. Fish in barrel is not my idea of sport either, nor is shooting a striped horse, really. Thinning the herd has been proven as a conservation strategy, however. There is a point to be made about killing the best genetic males as well. As for not knowing the feeling, I've shot small game and I've eaten deer and rabbit in Indiana, as well as gator and mud bugs in Baton Rouge. I actually preferred the mud bugs. Gator is a bit like tough steak, and the rabbit and the deer must be an acquired taste, as they tasted "wild," but not bad in a pinch, to me. As for processed meat, we no longer live in a subsistence farming & hunting economy, thank God. I don't think the hunters would have any more respect for avowed vegetarians, though. Probably just label them crackpots. How many is too many killed animals? One more than necessary, I guess. The one for cheap thrills. I'm sure there are some of those.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • lokdok1lokdok1 Member Posts: 383 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Okay, don't forget about the OTHER point about giving anti-hunters more reason to get on or backs.
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Hmm. I guess we are going to have to affix some societal justification to everything we do. The fact that a person might choose to do something for the lowly reason of "enjoyment", is not enough to outweigh the fact that it is not needed. Dont need to hunt anymore cause "thank god", we have Butchers to do it for us. And since society has provided that service to us, there rally is no reason to hunt-Oh but you enjoy it? Tough.Unless of course, it has some type of justifiable social reason-like thinning a herd.
    Probably would bew better for society if people stopped going to the shooting range-I mean there really is no reason to have to be a good shooter these days. And since it really has no purpose in modern society, there really is no reason for it.


    "Sometimes the people have to give up some individual rights for the safety of society."
    -Bill Clinton(MTV interview)
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    I certainly am not going to take a holier than thou stance on any subject that undermines the shooting sports. The more devided that shooters and the different kinds of hunters are the faster we will be extinct. Wake up and realise what you are doing.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    The anti-gunners think we are all unprincipled boobs. They are wrong. I'm merely saying why I don't enjoy hunting anymore. My cousin is out there at every season, for every permit, on every day the weather is not too wet nor the snow too deep.

    As for shooting in general, practice for defense and tactical applications has definitely not gone out of style, which is why places like Gunsite and Frontsight are so well attended.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • RembrandtRembrandt Member Posts: 4,486 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    It's no secret I hunt and have for many years. Perhaps growing up on a farm and raising livestock for consumption gives one a different perspective regarding the relationship of man to the animal world. For some who get their barcoded meat from a supermarket, the reality of death to obtain this food product...is hard to understand. Many have never viewed a death, or at the least been involved in the taking of life.

    The process of prepareing a chicken for the dinner table would probably send most in today's society to the bathroom vomiting. I believe the generations of the last 75 years have been softened to the real world of food processing. My mother and grandmother thought nothing of grabbing a couple of chickens, beheading them, plucking, and cutting them up for the frying pan. Many of todays men & women are replused by touching the "oooohhhh, icky slimey bird" they just unwrapped from the bar coded package...how would they ever get the courage to kill one?...so they let someone else cook it or eat vegetables instead.

    Genesis states that the animals were put on earth, and man was to have dominion over them. Doesn't mean "abuse" them, it meant to have dominance over them. Since the beginning of time man has used animals for transportation, food, clothing, and companionship. Anthropormorphism (giving human qualities and/or characteristics to things not human) has become the mantra of the animal rights movement.

    Man is essentially at the top of the food chain, his digestive system is that of a carnavore, not an herbivore....so if it's a Zebra or a cow, it's still food to carnavores.....whether we can overcome our own mental perceptions of this, is another issue.

    I'll agree that some hunters do not portray a positive and professional image at times to the non-hunting public, not all hunters are blood drinking killers....I respect the positions of those who do not hunt, only hope to persuade them to my side of the debate.



    Edited by - Rembrandt on 09/07/2002 18:57:40
  • thunderboltthunderbolt Member Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    So only ugly animals are fair game?
  • rameleni1rameleni1 Member Posts: 998 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I myself have never been hunting. I do plan on hunting Deer, Turkey, rabbit, and ducks. I do plan on eating what I shoot, and having some of them on my wall. Zebras, Moose, Bear, Tigers, I wouldn't shoot them.

    Rameleni1
  • robsgunsrobsguns Member Posts: 4,581 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Oh shoot, piss on all of you! That was Dano Too, saying that. What a bunch of weenies as Dano would say. Me, I have a great reason for shooting a Zebra: I hate whites, and I hate blacks, this is one sure fire way to take out one of each with just one shot, he, he, he, he,!!! Wait a second. I'm white, and it has been rumored that there is some chocolate in our milk, darn, that just aint gonna work. Oh who cares, anything you shoot in Africa is just for the hide anyway, you cant take the meat home, it just goes to the guides or local tribe, so tis a mute point!!! Who wound you guys all up so tight recently, Saxon is right, this place needs some livening up, where is Dano???

    SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I've caught and cleaned fish for years, and I don't even enjoy that quite as much as I used to. The cleaning of a rabbit is also no picnic (pun intended). But again, my cousin is Mr. Hunter in Northern Indiana and Michigan, and I can't fault him for the heritage or the enjoyment -- and he does prepare deer and pheasant etc. for the table.

    At the beginning of TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE some kids pick up a hitchhiker who starts talking, with great relish, about being the guy with the hammer in a stockyard, bashing cattle's brains out. It's as much his attitude as the description that makes it disturbing. He enjoys it too much. When I talk cheap thrills, that's what I'm getting at. Pointless killing doesn't interest me personally. I shot a sparrow out of a tree once with my scoped .22, and as impressed as I was by the accuracy, when I saw the bird carcass on the ground for no good reason, I realized I'd rather see that bird enjoying itself up in the tree. So I'm not much of a sport hunter, although I would have no problem dispatching pests or animals presenting an imminent danger to people. I guess I need a reason, and "whee" is not my idea of a word to shout when shooting something, anymore. Okay, that was too glib. Let's just say I'd rather shoot for a reason.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • paboogerpabooger Member Posts: 13,953
    edited November -1
    Ryan: Guess that would be me since I starterd the thread!!! Yes a few people have been just a tad bit testy in here lately!!! See what youve been missing!!!!
    L.O.L. Pa
  • wundudneewundudnee Member Posts: 6,108 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I have lived in a rural setting all my life. We raised and butchered our own animals for food. My mom would send me out to get rabbits and squirrels for supper, and if we were having company she would tell me how many to bring home. Nothing was wasted and nothing was abused or tortured. We tried to kill as humanely as possible. Dressing chickens, scrapeing hogs, skinning rabbits and squirrels, hanging beef. All of that was the process of our living. I have always loved to hunt, and always cleaned and ate what I killed. I don't eat horse, zebra, possums or house cats, so I don't shoot them. However if someone is so inclined, it's not my business to question their more's or living habits. As I get older my desire to hunt has dwindled or maybe my fire is dimming. But I can still understand the burning desire to hunt. If we weren't supposed to hunt, why were animals made of meat?

    wundudnee

    ....................
    AD ASTRA PER ASPERA

    To the stars through difficulties
    standard.jpg
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Kill 'em all. Let Dano sort it out.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Uh, we're made of meat too, though. I think maybe that carries weight on the other side of the discussion.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • .280 freak.280 freak Member Posts: 1,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Offeror -

    LOL!

    Dang, ya just HAD ta bring THAT up, didn't ya?!?
  • groundhog devastationgroundhog devastation Member Posts: 4,495
    edited November -1
    As I was headed to a field today to shoot (or shoot at) harmless little gray rockets known as Doves, I spied a montrous groundhog with a whole ear of corn, holding it up in his two little cute front feet and eating it much as we would! I would loved to have had a camera at the ready to capture this moment! Especially if the camera had been attached to a scope so the crosshairs were visible in the photo!!! The last Zebra around here probably got shot too!!! GHD
  • varmit huntervarmit hunter Member Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There doesn't seem to be a wealth of Zebra knowledge here. The Zebra is one of the hardest of all plains game in Africa to harvest(Kill). Why do you think other game is always hanging around Zebras. The other game depends on the Zebra's superior instincts.

    What is going on around here lately. We used to have people who had some basic knowledge of what they were talking about. I am starting to think the old gang just got tired of shallow thinking.

    If the Zebra was stupid a horse, Why did the good Lord put him in a black and white suite?. There is a reason he has a black and white coat. He Dog is probably the only one that has any idea. As clouder used to say ZZZIIIIIIIIIINNNNNGGGGGGG. Why has General Discussion turned into Major Wining?.

    The most important things, Are not things.
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    VH: It doesn't take a wealth of zebra knowledge or even of hunting in general to wait at a water hole until something shows up to kill it. Further, I think the superior instincts you attribute to zebras has to do with defense against lions and other predaceous cats, not archers awaiting them in air conditioned Land Rovers. Lastly, and perhaps most important, I hereby nominate you for the Non Sequitur of the Year Award for: "If the Zebra was stupid a horse, Why did the good Lord put him in a black and white suite?."

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.
  • Judge DreadJudge Dread Member Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Overgrazing is what african desertic regions are made off.....

    zebras,goats and carribo are numero 1 plages in overgraze.....

    AND africans eat zebra (just taste like Horse) bitter than cow meat
    and quite harder (like boot soles).

    400 million cows can't be wrong ( EAT GRASS !!! )
  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    I'm willing to wager that 85% or more of all animals harvested by the hunters on this board were taken at the dinner table. Who cares how or where it was taken as long as it was taken legally and humanely. Sport hunting fees and other expenses that hunters aquire put money into the economy of the US at the tune of 20 Billion dollars or more a year. It is an economic power to be reckoned with. What other sport where the spectator actively participates in every state contributes that much to the economy? I have to go and put some fresh geese in the freezer.

    AlleninAlaska

    http://www.outdoor-o-rama.com

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
    -- Thomas Paine
  • HighNoonHighNoon Member Posts: 444 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would be a hypocrite if I said I was against hunting since I eat beef, chicken, etc.

    What bothers me are the jerks that show up on my property (Colorado backcountry) that are poaching on my land, kill a mule deer only to hacksaw the antlers and leave the carcass. Or the brave hunters who tree'd a 3-legged mountain lion and started throwing rocks and sticks at it just to get their dogs riled up, because it wasn't a "trophy."

    If you hunt for the meat, I have no problem. If you're out there to prove you're a man to all the guys back at the office and endangering me and my family, and wasting meat that someone could use, we have a problem.
  • He DogHe Dog Member Posts: 51,593 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Your choice Pabooger, tastes just like venison however.

    A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand
  • mudgemudge Member Posts: 4,225 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This has turned into a thread similar to the PTL threads I dislike so much. Everybody seems to be rationalizing why they do or do not hunt. The hunters are never gonna' convince the non-hunters and vice versa. Like I said....very much like the PTL posts.

    Mudge the non hunter, non believer

    I can't come to work today. The voices said, STAY HOME AND CLEAN THE GUNS!
  • salzosalzo Member Posts: 6,396 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Mudge- No need to rationalize. I hunt because I enjoy it, and really dont feel the need to defend why I hunt.

    "Sometimes the people have to give up some individual rights for the safety of society."
    -Bill Clinton(MTV interview)
  • DancesWithSheepDancesWithSheep Member Posts: 12,938 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    mudge: Originally, the thread was specific to bowhunting zebra at a watering hole, and what Pabooger felt about it. It was not intended as a slam against hunters or hunting in general. The fact that the thread wandered from that...by you as much as by anyone else...does not mean that it has not been without interest or honest passion for the topic. What are you looking for here? Decisive resolution among differing opinions? Good luck.

    Why does man kill? He kills for food. But not only for food; frequently, he must have a beverage.

    Edited by - DancesWithSheep on 09/08/2002 12:23:22

    Edited by - DancesWithSheep on 09/08/2002 12:34:56
  • nordnord Member Posts: 6,106
    edited November -1
    My humble opinion...

    Hunting a Zebra is about like hunting a wild horse. I think you should be issued a permit...

    RIGHT AFTER YOU'VE FACED OFF WITH A CAPE BUFFALO AT 100 YDS. WITH A 30/06. Nobody allowed to back you up, only bolt actions, but you can have all the ammo you want.

    Whomever walks away from the encounter gets the Zebra permit, and my money's elsewhere than on you!

    Nord
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Nord--
    Now THAT's a horse race....

    General comment...
    As Dr. Phil would say, and as all your good wives know, you can argue with what someone thinks, but it's tough to deny how they feel about something. In this case, I remarked on the letter in Guns & Ammo and expressed my own personal waning interest in hunting (and, to the extent that our lakes have become seriously polluted and the fish have tumors, etc.) fishing. I just don't get the same kick I used to out of it -- how do I know? I'm not motivated to do it much any more. Oh, if I'm invited to the lake, I'll take my tackle box, but then I have to buy a license at the bait shop. And I haven't bought a hunting license in years.

    This has nothing to do with criticism of others' activities, excepting perhaps the seria-killer-in-the-making who tortures animals in youth and kills people in adulthood -- the extreme case. As I told you, my well-loved cousin is an avid hunter. Both of us are members (I'm a Lifer) of the NRA. The Second Amendment is about militia style guns first and foremost, so I'm in good company, nor do I begrudge someone else a point of view. While the letter in Guns & Ammo was remarkable because it describes "smiley faced" men standing over dead animals, that was his quote. I think it's been an interesting thread, anyway, but reveals that there is some sensitivity on the topic. I've hunted, and I'm prepared to shoot in defense. If I have any ambiguity intellectually on the subject, it has to do with unnecessary killing -- whatever that means. But this is a personal line I draw for myself, not for you.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
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