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C&R HOLDERS HELP ME UNDERSTAND

notdownoroutnotdownorout Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
edited April 2023 in General Discussion
TODAY ON ONE OF THE AUCTION SITES I CAME ACROSS A SELLER WHO IS POSTING A BALLESTER MOLINA (C&R QUALIFIED) FOR SALE. IN THE DESCRIPTION IT STATED THAT SHIPPING COSTS TO AN FFL WOULD BE $12.00 AND SHIPPING COSTS TO A C&R HOLDER WOULD BE $25.00. THE SELLER EXPRESSED "SORRY-I KNOW IT'S NOT FAIR" RIGHT BEHIND HIS ASKING FOR THE INFLATED SHIPPING COST TO A C&R HOLDER. WHAT AM I MISSING HERE? WOULDN'T THE SELLER INCURR THE SAME COST, IF HE SHIPS THE GUN BY LEGAL GUIDELINES, SHIPPING TO AN FFL OR TO A C&R HOLDER? I SENT HIM AN EMAIL THROUGH THE "ASK SELLER A QUESTION" SECTION AND EXPRESSED THAT I AM VERY OFFENDED BY THIS PRACTICE. I HATE TO SEE THIS GET STARTED AND I HOPE THAT OTHERS WILL EXPRESS THEIR DISLIKE FOR THIS DISCREPANCY.[:(][:(][:(][:(][:(]

Comments

  • chappsynychappsyny Member Posts: 3,381 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    At least the guy is upfront about it not being fair. I'd suggest buying from someone else. Check out century arms or any one of a number of other companies out there selling them.

    New Hampshire, USA - "Live Free or Die!!!"<P><br>
  • DIRTYRATDIRTYRAT Member Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WHO'S THE SELLER? I HAVE A C&R ALSO AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW,
  • pantera7974pantera7974 Member Posts: 938 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    i second the rats question.[:(!]

    HAPPINESS IS LIKE PEEING YOURSELF, EVERYBODY CAN SEE IT BUT ONLY YOU CAN FEEL ITS WARMTH.
  • notdownoroutnotdownorout Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    DIRTYRAT AND PANTERA:

    SEND ME AN EMAIL AT jimlw2@earthlink.net AND WE CAN CLARIFY YOUR INQUIRIES.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I would like this answer posted publicly. ... What's the dif?

    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • agloreaglore Member Posts: 6,012
    edited November -1
    You can bet your booty the )A-98 doesn't qualify as a C&R firearm. Did the person also have a 01 License?

    AlleninAlaska
    Delta Firearms & Supplies

    He who dares not offend cannot be honest.
    -- Thomas Paine
  • notdownoroutnotdownorout Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    WELL, SOME SUCCESS. I JUST WENT BACK AND CHECKED THE AUCTION AND THE SELLER HAS REVISED THE DESCRIPTION AND NOW STATES THAT HE WILL EAT THE DIFFERENCE FOR TWO DAY SHIPPING. IF THE BUYER USES THE "BUY IT NOW" OPTION. BIG HAIRY DEAL. STILL NO EXPLANATION AS TO WHY HE WANTS MORE SHIPPING DOLLARS FROM C&R HOLDERS.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I could be wrong. I sent off the FFL to my seller. He was definitely a class 01. I am under the impression that a transfer dealer on the GB list as having an FFL can receive a gun purchase for the buyer.

    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • dkfdkf Member Posts: 344 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I hold an FFL 01, I ship ALL handguns via the US Postal system either insured or registered mail only to Class 01 dealers and C&r holders. Because we use flat rate shipping service we have found that $20.50 will cover any single handgun shipment in the US. A word of caution C&R holders cannot receive or ship firearms except for their own PERSONAL use and CANNOT ENGAGE IN THE FIREARMS BUSINESS. A dealer should not charge more for shipping to FFL 01 or C&R, but that is their business. When you make a firearms purchase discuss the shipping charge and request that it be shipped via the postal system and it can be done for less that the $20.50 I quoted above. When UPS went stupid I went smart and changed to the Post Office. Have never lost a weapon nor had one damaged. Cannot say that for UPS. Good luck.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Well, this was my only transaction with this sporting goods place, but he was definitely selling guns, so I'm sure I'm wrong. Sorry I brought it up in a public forum. No doubt I would be able to sort out the paperwork on the transfer, but I have no desire to spread misinformation.

    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • mark christianmark christian Member Posts: 24,453 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The $12 sounds like the shipping fee charged to send a pistol via the US Postal Service and the $25 seems in line with the amount for shipping via UPS air. I was always under the impression that only Type 1 FFL holders could ship handguns by US mail in normal commerce. Non delaers- like C&R holders- wishing to use the USPS for shipping handguns were restricted to very limited situations. A dealer can mail a handgun to another dealer or a non dealer "should" be able to ship to a dealer, but I don't think a dealer can ship to a non dealer through the mail. A C&R holder (not a dealer by definition and regulation) would have to use UPS or another private carrier. I hold both types of licenses, but use my FFL dealers license for handguns for just this reason- to save a few bucks on shipping costs. Is this a correct assumption or can C&R purchase handguns in normal commerce (not for repair or replacement from a factory or gunsmith- I mean actual out right purchases) and have the handguns shipped directly to themselves via the mail? Just curious.

    Mark T. Christian
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    22WRF -- So what you're saying is if anybody wins an auction, provides info to a GB-listed transfer dealer, and a copy of their FFL is forwarded, and the seller winds up shipping to a C&R (03), then the FFL 01 and the FFL 03 would STILL both be screwing up -- because an FFL 03 isn't really an FFL, and the transfer dealer shouldn't be representing that they can transfer generically, nor should the seller ship, after running the EZcheck. Very clear mud. Thanks ... I think...

    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • notdownoroutnotdownorout Member Posts: 274 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    THE SELLER MUST HAVE HAD A CHANGE OF HEART COMPLETELY. HIS KNOWLEDGE OF UNFAIR PRACTICES MUST HAVE CHANGED HIS OWN MIND. I JUST VISITED THE AUCTION ITEM AND IT NOW STATES $12.00 SHIPPING TO AN FFL OR C&R HOLDER.

    AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS TO ALL WHO RESPONDED.
  • neatgunsneatguns Member Posts: 135 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Used to charge a flat $10.00 USPS shipping fee on handgun sales but I have recently started charging $25.00 to ship C&R handguns to C&R holders. By USPS policy, only 01 dealers can ship handguns to other DEALERS. Not to C&R. There were several lengthy posts on this subject on this and other sites. I doubt anyone has ever been charged with violating this but I will not put my livlihood at risk. C&R handguns are shipped to C&R holders via UPS next day air saver as per UPS policey on handguns. If UPS and USPS decided to stop shipping all firearms we would be done.
  • snake-eyessnake-eyes Member Posts: 869
    edited November -1
    I am truly amazed everyone let's folk knock the C&R license. Eventually it will go away...followed by the dealers license. A C&R is an FFL, call the ATF.

    Let's change the laws and quit bickering about them. One man CAN change the status quo.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    22WRF -- I got it. I was kidding. What I said above is true, though. Both parties would be technically goofing up assuming this is true.

    neatguns -- It is likely that this has never been made an issue. Leave it to us to make a deal out of it though, eh?

    snake-eyes -- You have a point too. Their license is on exactly the same form with the same heading. Unless you're an expert (which consumers on GB are usually not) you wouldn't know the ins and outs until somebody raised a stink about it.

    Frankly, I wish you guys would edit out quoting me from your posts, as a matter of clarity. Speculation is not something I'd like to see archived for posterity...

    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    22W --
    All three major services, USPS, UPS, and FedEx have different rules of their own for shipping firearms. UPS only accepts FFL to FFL now (so they claim) and must go Premium service, while FedEx can go standard rate from the common man. Unless you post regs for all three major shipping services, plus the federal government's own minimum requirements, the answer is not definitive. I do however hope you will be as diligent re honoring my above request to edit posts in which I am quoted, since I have retracted my statement on the subject.

    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I completely forgot about the fact that there is yet another class of FFL called "Pawnbroker." Here's a helpful cut 'n paste from the ATF site:

    Type 01 -
    DEALER in firearms other than destructive devices.
    (includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National
    Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.)

    18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B)

    Fee:

    $ 200.00 for the first three (3) years.
    $ 90.00 on renewal.
    Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
    [Top]



    Type 02 -
    PAWNBROKER in firearms other than destructive devices.
    (includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National Firearms Act (NFA) weapons.)

    18 U.S.C 923(a)(3)(B)

    Fee:

    $ 200.00 for the first three (3) years.
    $ 90.00 on renewal.
    Application: ATF Form 7 (5310.12)
    [Top]



    Type 03 -
    COLLECTOR OF CURIOS AND RELICS.
    (pertains exclusively to firearms classified as curios and relics, and it's purpose is to facilitate a personal collection. It is NOT a license to buy and sell curios and relics.

    18 U.S.C 923(b)

    Fee:

    $ 30.00 for three (3) years.
    Application: ATF Form 7 CR (5310.16)




    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • snake-eyessnake-eyes Member Posts: 869
    edited November -1
    Did you know you can ship firearms without a FFL through the USPS? Yep, put a 'Colonel' or 'General' in front of your name and it's fully legit. Military officers can receive firearms in the mail without a FFL.

    Let's change the laws and quit bickering about them. One man CAN change the status quo.
  • gad38gad38 Member Posts: 179
    edited November -1
    Type 03 -
    COLLECTOR OF CURIOS AND RELICS.
    (pertains exclusively to firearms classified as curios and relics, and it's purpose is to facilitate a personal collection. It is NOT a license to buy and sell curios and relics.

    18 U.S.C 923(b)

    It was my understanding of the laws that a Curio and Relics Licence WAS so you could buy Curio and Relics, and have them shipped directly to you without having to go through a dealer.....You are allowed to sell curio & relics but not as a business.
    Once again this is my understanding of the laws............Greg
  • Le_Dom_FrixLe_Dom_Frix Member Posts: 21 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Snake-eyes,
    I do believe (to use a polite term) that impersonating a Military Officer is a Federal Crime. Posting data of this magnatude could lead less desirables into thinking they "could" actually get firearms without having to go through an FFL holder. Thus, bypassing the system of checks and balances that are set in place to keep honest people honest, and to keep firearms out of the hands felons and such.

    This is a "Public" forum. There are no "Background Checks" to partake in this forum. BE CAUTIOUS of the info you post.

    Lee

    It's not what you carry
    It's how good you can use it
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    gad -- Your explanation of C&R appears to be accurate. The language says "facilitate...personal collection." That means one might find it advantagous for building a collection of over 50-year-old firearms in one's personal collection.

    On the other hand, a person engaged in business, or a person having a store, would not be selling firearms to others based on their C&R license, nor serving as a transfer dealer for others based on a C&R. They would have to have to pay the $200 and sign up for the whole hog to get those privileges.

    The C&R is a nice personal benefit though, at only $30 to sign up. I'm thinking of getting one since I have a long way to go to fill up the World War gun portion of my little collection. I probably won't get an FFL any time soon unless I were to decide to get a storefront, because if you want to have an FFL at home you have to get a zoning variance here regardless of what zone you live in, which involves notifying all your neighbors and that you want to sell guns out of your home, and getting official permission from your chief of police on paper. The whole variance effort is not a pleasant prospect for a kitchen table business, and then there's the question of liability insurance. People sue everybody nowadays.

    Life NRA Member

    T. Jefferson: "[When doing Constitutional interpretation], let us [go] back to the time when [it] was adopted. [Rather than] invent a meaning [let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed."
  • WOFFFFWOFFFF Member Posts: 1

    Upcharge of $100 for shipping to me using my 03 C&R FFL vs, to an 01 FFL ????

    Why would this happen to a specific item? I have bought several eligible firearms and have never been up-charged when I add my C&R to be shipped to me. Does anyone have thoughts, I have tried several times to contact GB and they never respond.

  • NeoBlackdogNeoBlackdog Member Posts: 17,196 ✭✭✭✭

    WOW! This one's a blast from the past!

    @WOFFFF ya might want to check the dates on the threads you respond to.

    Welcome to Gun Broker!

  • jimdeerejimdeere Member, Moderator Posts: 26,160 ******

    WOFFFF, welcome to the forum. No one here is connected to the auction side. I would add that each seller is entitled to set their own rules. If I don't like the conditions of the sale, I look elsewhere.

    Please read the forum posting guidelines:


This discussion has been closed.