Military recruiter

concealedG36 · December 2001

Hi fellas (and ladies),Well, my brother has decided to join the armed forces. He's 22 years old and wants to serve his country. We were all raised in a "Marine Corps" household, dad never realized that he was honorably DISCHARGED I guess. Anyway, my brother is having problems deciding which branch to join. I feel strongly about the USMC, but I think he might be able to achieve the same goals in something like the Air Nat'l Guard or Army. I am pretty sure he only wants to enlist in the reserves, but who knows, he changes his mind a lot.Anyway, I know that there is at least one recruiter here who will "tell it like it is", and I'm hoping some of you can give me an e-mail address or phone number that I can pass on to my brother. I don't want him to go into the recruiter offices around here, the last time I went in they weren't honest and I ended up leaving in disgust (they acted like I was a "sale" for which they would earn a commission, I wanted the real truth).Anyone?Thanks,G36

Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals

Evil ATF · December 2001

I think Idsman is a recruiter. Maybe he can help.

idsman75 · December 2001

I am a U.S. Army recruiter. I work and live in the state of Iowa. As I have mentioned previously, any attempt to deceive on my behalf would result in EXTREME negative reprocussions. I don't BS anyone around and I'll give him the straight facts. I don't bash other services but I will tell you why it will be more advantageous for him to join the Army because I am an Army recruiter. If I thought otherwise, I would have gotten out and enlisted in another service.email me at idsman75@peoplepc.com for my real name/phone#/address.

simonbs · December 2001

Just a couple of tips I'd like to pass on based on my experience in the Army Reserves.1) The National Gaurd gets State and Federal monies. The NG in FL will pay 100% tuition on top of the GI Bill, if that is a consideration (I don't know about other states). The Reserves aren't able to offer more than the GI Bill due to having less money. (Sorry Idsman). The Reserves do offer more job opportunities though.2) Get it in your contract. Get it in your contract. Get it in your contract. If he wants to go to Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger, or any other school - Get it in your contract. If you want the option of having two MOS's (jobs) - Get it in your contract. Once your in, they don't want to spend any more money on you than they have to.Hope this helps. Tell him good luck and congratulations for me.

concealedG36 · December 2001

Thanks all. idsman, I sent you an e-mail. I appreciate the advice, I'll pass it on.G36

Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals

idsman75 · December 2001

Okay, Now I must come to the defense of the reserves. The Nat'l Guard/Air Guard or whatever is primarily and predominantly funded by the state. Historically, those "guaranteed" college benefits have gone down the hole in tough economic times when projected and needed tax revenues are not generated due to economic downturns. Also, many states have a limit to the number of people that can be on the national guard's "tuition assistance" program (their version of the GI Bill) at the same time. Hence, you are put on a waiting list to take advantage of your college benefits but no recruiter for the Nat'l Guard will ever tell you this. The Selective Reserve Montgomery GI Bill can be taken advantage of immediately after training is completed and it is guaranteed. Period.Also, a good friend of mine recently joined the Army National Guard. He was "guaranteed" the military police investigator course in his contract. He's not getting it now due to certain technicalities that his recruiter concealed and he can't get out of his contract. If the Army or Army Reserves puts something into a contract, then that is rock solid. If an act of God or man prevents a contracted benefit from being extended to the servicemember, then the contract is null and void and the servicemember can walk.Any questions? I'm not a salesman. I am a recruiter. I don't browbeat people to join the Army. I merely find out where their needs and interests lie and show them how close the Army can get them there. I will, however, use the TRUTH to give people a wake-up call. For example, a gentleman told me that he didn't want to join the military but was going off to some college because he wanted to be a marine biologist. I took a look at his ASVAB scores and asked him if he honestly thought he had what it took to do that. I don't insult and question the manhood of potential applicants like the marine corps does. I don't fraud people into the military by concealing past disqualifying events in the lives of applicants like the Navy does. I don't encourage high school seniors to "disappear" and get dropped by one of the other services so that I can put them in the Army like the Air Force does. All of those actions are a basis for a relief for cause in my office. They are standard practice with the other guys.The concept of an "all volunteer" Armed Forces is bogus. About 90% of the people in the Armed Forces did not volunteer. They were recruited. Yes, they voluntarily raised their right hand and signed on the dotted line but most had to be called at home or stopped on the street by a recruiter and followed up 5 - 10 times by a recruiter. I'm not saying this to "praise" recruiters who are just doing their job. I am saying this to all of the parents that hang up on us when we call the house and to all of the parents that stand in the way of their kids who wish to follow their dreams. I've had just about enough of the "somebody else's kid can do it" attitude.By the way, it wasn't a commission that the recruiters were after. It was their jobs and their paycheck. I may not be on commission or be living off of a strict commission like many "starving salesmen" but certain areas of this country are not quite as patriotic as the fine state of Texas which is a recruiter's dream. A good friend of mine was recently handed a letter indicating that he would be relieved for cause because he's not "making the numbers". If that happens 2 months from now, his career is through and he does all the right things to get the job done. Like I said, certain parts of this country aren't quite as patriotic as others and certain parts of this country raise their sons to be momma's boys. [This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 12-11-2001).]

sig-man · December 2001

IDSMAN What is the cut off age for prior service active duty to return to active duty or rejoin?

idsman75 · December 2001

Take your current age (precisely to day) and subtract your exact number of years/months/days prior active service. If that number is less than 35, you are good to go. The reason being is that you have to be able to retire by your 55th birthday. You have to be able to retire by your 60th birthday for the reserves.

Judge Dread · December 2001

Author statement: don't want him to go into the recruiter offices around here, the last time I went in they weren't honest and I ended up leaving in disgust (they acted like I was a "sale" for which they would earn a commission, I wanted the real truth). Thats the real Truth !!!!!!!!

Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram

badboybob · December 2001

Concealed your brother can only decide for himself. No advece from you or us is relevant. If he wants to be a cook and baker, so be it. If he wants to be a warrior, so be it. The armed services need all kinds and all kinds are welcome to apply.As far as recruiters lying to him, tell him to be sure to get any promises in writing and signed by the recruiter's CO. Then if it turns out that he was lied to there is always the option of requestinq to see the Inspector General or writing to his cogressman.Of course the last two options will preclude any chances of a carrer.

beachmaster73 · December 2001

Oh please idsman75..let me get this straight, you are not going to bash anybody but..."I don't insult and question the manhood of potential applicants like the Marine Corps does"...I don't fraud people into the military by concealing past disqualifying events in the lives of the applicants like the Navy does" ..."I don't encourage high school seniors to "disappear" and get dropped by one of the other services so I can put them in the Army like the Air Force does" Sounds to me idsman like you are in fact crapping on them in spades!!! Well idsman I guess you are the only recruiter in the Army who doesn't because every recruiter in Monroe Michigan including the three Army guys, except for the Air Force recruiter, will tell an applicant what ever they want to hear to get them to sign on the bottom line. I even had the Army call up one of my students who had been a delayed entry and then had changed his mind about enlisting at all that the FBI would issue a warrant for his arrest for breach of contract....what a laugh I told the young man and his parents that the next time the Army recruiter called to tell him to talk to their butts. I am an Navy Junior ROTC Instructor who over the last 5 years has had 2 of my students earn USMC ROTC College Scholarships, 6 US Army ROTC College Scholarships, about 22 of my students have joined the Army, about 9 have joined the Marines, 6 have joined the Navy and 5 have joined the Air Force. I really couldn't care less what service they join or even if they join a service as long as they are working to better their education. ConcealedG36 every recruiter will tell you that their service is better than the others and that's why they are so committed to recruiting for their service which of course is always so much better than the others. In point of fact each service has some advantage over the others and some disadvantage to the others. I've had parents of kids from other high schools bring their children over to me at my home and help them with their decision. In some cases it resulted in the kid deciding not to join the military at all, in a couple of cases it involved a kid joining another service instead of the one he originally thought he would and in no case has it ever involved me persuading a kid to join the Navy over another service. My livelihood doesn't depend on me beating the bushes for recruits like a recruiter. I am in the education business and only want the kids to get the best for themselves. ConcealedG36 get your brother in the car and come on down here some evening and we can talk about what he really needs to do with his life and where he should go. You should still have my email address....hell we can even go out shooting at the range and let him see some of the fun toys he can play with if he decides to become a grunt or a jarhead!!! I won't lead him astray like most every recruiter(including the Navy recruiter) would. Beach [This message has been edited by beachmaster73 (edited 12-12-2001).]

robsguns · December 2001

I'm qualafied to talk about this, I'm experienced with two branches, and practically four. I was in the Air Force, they have a better quality of living conditions, than my present service, the Marine Corps. They hardly ever deploy except to war, and I had a lot of fun going TDY, TAD. They have a lot of beautiful girls for your brother. They have many more choices for where he may get stationed, as apposed to the mere handful in the Corps. He can get into a good civilian realted job, if he has the IQ for it, no offense. I was also in the Air Force Reserves for a short while after the active duty Air Force, and it was a useless waste of time, both the governments and mine, zero training going on, and pointless hours of class room "training" instead. Why did I get out? Cause I worked my * off, would I trade the job I have for it again, no. The Corps is easier, I dont care what anyone thinks, the Airmen in the Air Force should make more than I do, if theyre still working as hard as I did. So as not to run down the Corps, I will simply say this about it, legends and myths are made by small minded men who bask in the glory of others. I am currently stationed on an Army post, have been for over 2 years, and I dont see as they have it much better than I do, the worst base housing I have ever seen, anywhere. I have met many Navy personnel, of course, and I believe they would be my second choice, but I cant stand ships, so your brother needs to think about that. Good Luck.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

beachmaster73 · December 2001

Concealed....let us know which service he picks and why...or if he decides not to go into any of them. Beach

idsman75 · December 2001

beach--I apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I am specifically talking about the offices next door. I never said that all Air Force/Navy/Marine recruiters are liars. I was not bashing the specific services. All services have their function. I praise God for everyone that joins the Air Force because I don't like the idea of having to fuel up some officer's airplane so he can go off and do all of the fighting. You made the same mistake for which you are accusing me. You assume that I am asserting that the services "next door" represent all of the recruiting personnel for the Marine Corps/Navy/Air Force. However, you further state that I must be the only Army recruiter that doesn't lie simply due to the fact that there are three in Monroe Michigan that are liars. A three-man recruiting station comprises what the Army calls a "Small Recruiting Station". I work in a "Large Station" and lying to an applicant is grounds for relief from duty for cause. I'm sure you understand the ramifications of a relief for cause.I have always respected your opinions and your words of experience and wisdom so I will not insult you. However, your young student who was in the delayed entry program signed a contract and took an oath. That student went back on his word and his committment. There will be no FBI arrest warrant but any individual who becomes a D.E.P loss to the military CAN be drafted for a period of 2 years at any time in their life while they are of an eligible age. This is certainly something that I am sure future draft boards will consider. The effects of D.E.P losses on our national defense is obviously not seen or understood by someone that has not been a recruiter. However, the fact that our national defense is comprised of an "all volunteer" force depends on the dependability of those that sign the contract and take that oath.Secondly, the paperwork signed by the applicant has a specific signature block attesting to the fact that no promises or guarantees were made by the recruiter except that which is guaranteed to all soldiers. A recruiter does not draw up the contract and does not put the bonuses and MOS into the paperwork. That is all done at the military entrance processing station. I always make it very clear up front that each MOS carries different degrees of benefits. Some carry cash enlistment bonuses. Some carry just the GI Bill and others carry the GI Bill and the Army College Fund. It's up to the applicant to decide what his most important to him or her. Is there a specific MOS that they are interested in? Are they just in it for as much money as they can get in the form of bonuses and College money?Most of our national defense was recruited. You may call it "beating the bush". Recruits that are found by "beating the bush" are the reason why young men and women actually have a choice in the matter.Finally, I am a lousy recruiter. I already sent concealedG36's brother an email message explaining this. I've only put in 50% of the people that I was supposed to put in these past six months because I don't browbeat people into joining the Army. I probe them in order to find out their needs and interests and show them how the Army can provide a means of satisfying those needs and interests. If they bite, great. If they don't, then I move on to the next person that I talk to. My chain-of-command thinks that I am a terrible recruiter. That is because I take the heat for not treating potential applicants in the manner that you have previously described. [This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 12-12-2001).]

beachmaster73 · December 2001

Well then my hat is off to you idsman. Right now the only recruiter that I truly admire in our town is the Air Force recruiter. All services are represented but the Air Force recruiter plays tightest with the truth. A very good SEAL friend of mine was also a very poor recruiter who received poor evaluations.....those evals didn't hurt him when he went back to the teams and he did infact make E-8....so don't worry if they send you back to your MOS....recruiting evals shouldn't hurt you. Beach

concealedG36 · December 2001

Thanks to everyone who replied to my question. Beach, yes, I still have your contact info and I just may take you up on your offer (thank you)! I am also going to copy this thread and send it to my brother, I think it'll help.I'll let you all know what he decides when he makes his decision.Thank you,G36

Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals

idsman75 · December 2001

They won't hurt me if they send me back in the next three months. Any time after that and my career is pretty much ruined. Then it's time to get out. Happens to NCO's all the time. I knew a guy that was a gold-badge recruiter but his DEP loss rate went through the roof and they releived him. He couldn't get promoted past E-5 and he was separated from the Army on the Retention Control Program with a wife and a few kids in tow. That's what DEP losses can do to damn fine NCO's. By the way, they didn't hurt him because he was a SEAL. Most guys in the Army Special Forces Make E-8 before they turn 30. E-7's are a dime a dozen in the SF's.[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 12-12-2001).]

beachmaster73 · December 2001

Idsman our teams are much different than an A-Team. Usually two officers and one E-7 or E-8 in each platoon. Rest are E-3 through E-6. Much much less emphasis on rank in the teams than in Army SF. Also in the Navy participation in any unusual special group doesn't insure quick promotions. Navy promotions are done by a Navy wide exam after a sailor is determined to be fit for promotion. If your rate is a Gas Turbine Specialist or Electronics Technician and you are playing SEAL jumping out of airplanes and blowing stuff up and not working on an LM-2500 engine or an SPS-48 radar like your contemporaries on ships...you don't get promoted they do. It's tough but the profesionalism of some of our special units more than offsets the slower promotion rates for them. Many of my Beachmasters were Boatswains Mates who never saw an anchor or mooring to a bouy while they were driving their LARC's through the surf zone or while rescuing drowning Marines....they just had to try and study out of the book a little harder to advance or get a leg up on their shipborne counterparts. I think the permanent recruiters would have three flat tires on advancement for continually not make quotas but anyone who gets out of the recruiting business after just one tour shouldn't be dead in the water. By the way I do admire the work recruiters do......it is a job I wouldn't do in a million years....if I had been assigned as a recruiter there would have been claw marks down the pier from where they dragged me to the bus to take me to the assignment. And having said that I do know the stresses on recruiters....I have watched them from my vantage point for six years...We have had at least three turnovers in recruiters in each of the services offices. All start out idealistic and high minded....but the stresses imposed on them by their upper level management seems to burn them out and make them more than a little introspective by the one year mark in their assignment. So you just keep doing what you are doing and staying honest with yourself and you'll be able to sleep easy at night. BeachP.S. I do apologise for coming off so hard on you but your initial posting did seem very sanctimonious and I reacted to that. Had you mentioned a couple of dishonest ARMY recruiters in your own office I probably wouldn't have reacted as I did. All the best, Beach.

22WRF · December 2001

As an Ex-Navy Recruiter I found the thread intresting reading. I Have no comments other than Beachmaster has it right on Navy Promotions. Recruiters in my day were E-6 thru E-9 from the Fleet doing a 3 year tour of Shore Duty and happy to get back to the Fleet when it was over.

Home of the Blue Angels, P'colaProviding a home for discontinued .22 Revolvers and PistolsNRA Pistol InstructorMember 2nd Amendment SistersNever miss a good chance to shut up (Will Rogers)

Judge Dread · December 2001

If you are feeling paranoid about being ripoff by an E-5 recluter,get an E-9 ,the ripoff will have a greater "RANK" HE HE HE!

Ignis Natura Renovatur Integram

will270win · December 2001

I am patial to the Marines because I am one. No, a recruiter can't guarantee anything at all. As a former Marine recruiter, a bad one at that, I wouln't send an applicant down unless the MEPS could give him what he wanted. As far as a job skill goes, let him pick, don't persuade him to do something that translates into civilian life as this may make him MISERABLE, that is what the GI bill and 50,000 college fund is for, if he can get one. NOW is the time to join because all the latest and greatest jobs came out with the fiscal year start. Regardless whether he goes Marine, Army, Navy, Or Air Force, he's good in my book because I've seen what the Youth of America say about the military, and it ain't good. At least there are a few Patriots left out there.

Eat healthy, exercise, avoid smoking........Die anyway. will270win@aol.com ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

idsman75 · December 2001

There is no room for liars and there is no room for those that sacrifice integrity for temporary satisfaction. However, here's a brief example of why recruiters get a bit over-zealous at times. This is a copy-and-paste message compliments from my Company First Sergeant today:TO THE COMPANY:TIS THE SEASON TO BE JOLLY!!! I HOPE YOU ALL GET ALONG WITH YOUR FELLOW RECRUITERS REALLY, REALLY WELL, LOOKS LIKE YOU WILL BE SPENDING MOST OF THE CHRISTMAS BREAK WITH THEM. I AM SICK OF PLAYING GAMES, TRYING TO STROKE SOME SCs AND RCTRs, BEING THE BAD GUY TO OTHERS, AND THE FATHER FIGURE TO OTHERS. I AM PHYSICALLY SICK. THE COMPANY IS NOW AT 3 FOR 31 WITH 9 PROCESSING DAYS LEFT. I WANT YOU ALL TO GO HOME AND TELL YOUR FAMILIES THAT YOU ARE DOING SUCH A GREAT JOB THAT YOU WILL GET BONUS WORK HOURS FOR CHRISTMAS. TELL YOUR KIDS THAT YOU WOULD LOVE TO SPENT MORE TIME WITH THEM BUT THAT BIG BAD 1SG IS MAKING YOU DO YOUR JOBS THAT YOU DIDN'T DO EARLIER IN THE MONTH. SHOW YOU WIVES AND GIRLFRIENDS YOUR PLANNING GUIDES AND ALL THE HARD WORK YOU HAVE BEEN DOING (this is a sarcastic remark for you that don't get it). HAVE THEM CALL ME AND WE WILL SET UP A APPOINTMENT FOR ALL OF US TO SIT DOWN AND GO OVER YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS FOR THE MONTH. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT NO ONE WANTS TO JOIN DURING CHRISTMAS IT'S BOLOGNA THE REST OF THE BN IT ALMOST BOXED. I'LL HAVE MY WIFE SEND YOU ALL THANK YOU NOTES FOR HER HUSBANDS PRESENT OF BONUS WORK HOURS ALSO. AGAIN SIOUX CITY IS THE ROCK IN THE RUCK OF THE BN. AT ATC EVERYONE WAS "PUMPED UP AND MOTIVATED" ABOUT THE COMPANY DOING WELL. WHAT HAPPENED??? I'LL TELL YOU, WE CONSTRUCTIVELY HAVE RETURNED TO THE COMPLACENT ATTITUDE THAT HAD US IN THE BOTTOM LAST YEAR. I TOLD YOU ALL THAT THIS COMPANY WAS MOVING UP AND YOU WOULD EITHER CONTRIBUTE OR LEAVE, GUESS WHAT THERE WILL BE SOME LEAVING IN 90 DAYS, RCTRS AND SCs. I CAN COUNT ON ONE HAND THE NUMBER OF RCTRs IN THE COMPANY THAT THIS DOES NOT APPLY TOO. YOU ALL HAD BETTER GET HOT AND GET THE PEOPLE TO THE FLOOR IN THE NEXT 6 DAYS OR YOU WILL BE SPENDING CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS AT WORK. THIS IS NOT A THREAT IT IS SIMPLY A FACT. 1SG XXXXX X XXXXX Is it just me or would the last two sentences of the message have stood alone just fine?

Mom Mom · December 2001

sig-man: There is one exception that I know of to the age rule: nurses and physicians (maybe some other specialities) at the present time have until age 48 ( no thats NOT a typo 48!!!!!!!) to join the Air Force, with I believe an officer commission. At least thats the info on their health services recruiting page.

robsguns · December 2001

idsman,Why dont you print this thread up and leave it on your 1stSgts desk, cause I'd like him to know that as a professional, military Staff NCO, I believe that the statement he made in his memo is about the most demoralizing, morale lowering, unprofessional statement of a desperate, unqualified leader, who should have been paying closer attention to the numbers, and makeing plans for this time of year, further out. His lack of leadership is only surpassed by his total lack of his ability to convey his thoughts in a positive manner that will bring about positive results, instead of the almost undoubtable failure of his men. Now he will have to carry through with his threat or be seen as the weak piece of crap that he is. I only hope that someone in your command is strong enough of mind and soul to tell him how screwed up he is, as a human and as a leader, if not, just leave this on his desk.

SSgt Ryan E. Roberts, USMC

beachmaster73 · December 2001

SSGT Roberts, X-ring!!! Idsman, please accept my condolences, I'll tell you who the rock in the rucksack is......It's your Company First Sergeant. His gross lack of professionalism in the memo is probably reflective of his own inability to lead...I noticed he took no responsibility for his own poor leadership in providing guidance earlier in the month to achieve goal for your station. I'd send a copy of the memo as well as this thread to the LtCol who runs recruiting for your state and see what happens. If the Col has no class you might get burned but if he has half a brain he should recognize the fatally sarcastic tone of the memo. All the best to you, Beach[This message has been edited by beachmaster73 (edited 12-13-2001).]

will270win · December 2001

A First Shirt like that couln't lead drunks to a bar! He's way outta line. I had a Sergeant that would talk to my Lance Corporals like that, he's now a lot better leader as a Corporal. I can't stand that kinda crap, leadership if not performed by example, is as worthless as a bag of dead worms and a broke cane pole. Idsman, I really hope things turn out for you. I've been on the mean streets before and it sucks!I got relieved for my poor performance and 12 hour days. I hope someone comes up with a better way. God bless the military and best of luck to you idsman.

Eat healthy, exercise, avoid smoking........Die anyway. will270win@aol.com ~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~

Matt45 · December 2001

Idsman-Sounds like Top is a ROAD NCO with little better to do than intimidate his people with his diamond. Or maybe he just really wants a star in it's place, and needs to use your backs as a replacement for his own effort and initiative .At any rate, the Army National Guard will accept you with open arms, no matter what your NCOER has to say about you, or what you say about us. Just have an RE-3 or better and a good narrative."Don't sweat the big stuff, it's the little things that kill ya."MattSpokane R&RO,WAARNG

Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!

idsman75 · December 2001

I appreciate your words of support. I don't look down on any of the other services. We all have our role but the rivalry combined with a bit of misplaced pride causes my brain to get the cart before the oxen at times. The Army National Guard out here goes by annual numbers instead of monthly and quarterly numbers. The Air Force office next door and the Marine Corps office next door make their numbers VERY early in the month and come into work in civilian clothing once that happens. They don't put on the uniform until the next month begins and then they are in jeans and polo shirts as soon as they make their numbers again. This proves to be very effective because they can show their applicants that they are actually human beings with lives. Our hours have effectively changed from 0800-2000 to 0700-2200 as a result of this most recent edict from the 1SG. He came from what recruiters call a "walk-in market". Here in the midwest there are just as many people willing to join. We just have to go out and build relationships with them and earn their trust. There's a lot of damn fine people out here. It just takes time to get them from point A to point B. The 1SG doesn't comprehend this and was even quoted by one of my peers as saying, "Why do all these kids have to talk it over with their parents first?" He's used to the rebellious type with few family values where he came from on the "left coast" (no insult to West Coast people here). I find it absolutely hilarious that the most liberal state (California) is the easiest state in which to recruit. One of my former soldiers join the Army just to p!ss off his millinaire father after a dispute. He was an aweful soldier but he knew his job to the "T". I managed to turn him around and start sending him to soldier-of-the-month boards where he started learning the values of excellence and the rewards that they bring. He has been recruiting in California for exactly one year now and has earned his gold badge. It takes 2 - 3 years to do that here in the midwest on average. I'm sure he's a damn good recruiter but I was talking to him on the phone the other day and he had to get off the line because four people just walked in wanting to join the Army. Such is life. I appreciate everyone here letting me vent and get it off my chest. 80-hour work weeks don't permit me to have many local friends and the people I work with don't care to hang out on the weekends because we see eachother's bright shiny faces constantly during the week. That pretty much leaves me with one or two real solid local friends when they aren't off with their significant others and then there's you guys. I thought I knew it all when it came to firearms before I arrived at this place and now my hungry minds absorb your posts with a passion. Which of our founding fathers would have ever conceived that the past-times created by our 2nd Ammendment freedom would have evolved into something like this. These things will truly be a great past-time for me which I will hold with fondest memories.In the words of one of the Old Testament prophets, "Here I am. Send me!"

martinjmpr · December 2001

Idsman:I feel for you, man. I don't know why the Army treats its recruiters the way it does. Every story I've heard has been just about identical to yours. Maybe they set the quotas high on purpose just to keep everyone moving. Personally, I'd hate it. The worst thing about it is that I'll bet the ones that do best (at least in the areas where its hard to recruit) are the amoral BS'ers who tell folks whatever they want to hear. What kind of ethical behavior is encouraged when the liars and cheats are the only ones getting commended? The Army needs to realize that the pressure on recruiters is counterproductive to the mission of getting high quality people in the service. Think of it this way: The recruiter is almost always the first one-on-one contact a soldier has with the Army. If that leaves a bad taste in his mouth, it's probably going to have a very detrimental effect on how that soldier relates to the Army once he gets in. I was an E-6 at 10 years, 33 years old and single, and I could see the writing on the wall back in '95. After being told that my future would definitely include either a tour as a recruiter or as a drill instructor (if my warrant packet wasn't accepted - which it wasn't), I chose a third path:1. Got out. (stayed in the reserves)2. Finished college. 3. Am now halfway through law school. Unfortunately, driving good people out seems to be what the active army is good at. On the plus side, going to school and being a weekend warrior can be pretty cool if you're in a decent unit. So don't let it get you down. And try to have a nice Christmas.Martin

idsman75 · December 2001

I am doing some debating here. I have leave locked in for December 24 - 27 and Sunday the 23rd is a guaranteed day off. I'm the only one in my office that requested leave for those dates and I'm wondering if I should cancel my leave just to hang tough with the guys that will still be here in the office. I'm sure my family would disown me (not literally) but it might send a message that the NCO's that get the job done are a team that sticks together.

Gene B. · December 2001

What does a Physical for the army include?

Mom Mom · December 2001

What kind of incompetant idiot expects to do ANY recruiting on Christmas? He thinks families are going to finish dinner and say, hey lets skip the eggnog and football or whatever, and go see what the Army has to offer! Boy, what a neat family tradition, spend the day with a recruiter, yeah, right. Any NCO or other so- called leader, civilian included, only has one reason to take away Christmas from their employees for no valid reason- petty revenge.

idsman75 · December 2001

Gene B. An Army physical includes everything you can possibly conceive of except a colonoscopy. Height/Weight, Vision, hearing, various physical activities that demonstrate range-of-motion for all of your joints and a complete head-to-toe inspection to name a few.Chat with an Army recruiter at www.goarmy.com and all of these types of questions can be answered (or just email me at idsman75@peoplepc.com)[This message has been edited by idsman75 (edited 12-14-2001).]

Gene B. · December 2001

I dont want to sound disrespectful, but will he have to stick his finger up my butt?

idsman75 · December 2001

No, but he gets a good look at it. There was no "touching" in that region when I got my exam.

Matt45 · December 2001

Idsman-Are you traveling away for Christmas Exodus or staying local? If you wanted to demonstrate that you are a team player,you can still go on leave, but go into the office in civvies to support your fellow NCO's if they are forced to work. I don't know what the command enviroment is there,(I think I've got a good idea!), but, I don't think the NCOIC would have enough stones to flip you to much crap about being out of uniform, especially with a DA-31 in hand.WAARNG Recruiters wear the "soft" uniform year round, even for school visits and, yes, the quota is set at the beginning of the calender year. I have a recruiter in my station who has his share bagged as of 17 October, so anyone he enlists is cross-leveled over to a another recruiter for reporting purposes, that way everyone gets to keep their jobs.

Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!![This message has been edited by Matt45 (edited 12-16-2001).]

J.John · December 2001

You military guys just answered a question I had for a number of years. A good friend from school days retired out of the navy several years ago as a E5 after 21 years service. He was a recruiter for nearly a complete hitch, and regular job was a aviation machinest mate.I couldnt understand the E5 after that much service, but can now.

7mm_ultra_mag_is_king · December 2001

idsman75, let's see if I can help you out but you have to tell me what I need to hear. Does the Army reserves have any use for a 31 year old high school drop out truck driver who is outa shape(not overweight) and chain smokes? I DO NOT want to go infantry! I want to continue to drive a truck and I want an m-16. My father is an army lifer who served during the southeast asia crisis and has been in the reserves for the last 15 years and has not made it past e5 even with an excellent record. I can get a G.E.D but I already know what I want in life. I have a family and tons of bills so I'm not some 17 year old looking for his calling. I simply am thinking about reserves just so my pops will lay off of me and also so I can say "been there done that", Let me know and I will park my big 'ol truck in front of your office and come see you.

when all else fails........................

idsman75 · December 2001

Get the GED and see your local Army recruiter. If you are looking for a specific job in the Reserves, ask what is available in your area.

idsman75 · December 2001

Matt45--What do you mean by "Soft uniform"? I personally think that BDU's are much more comfortable than greens and blues. National Guard recruiters get an annual mission. Ours fluctuates from quarter to quarter. The Nat'l Guard recruiters around here bag their number ASAP and then are permitted to just loaf and take vacation the rest of the year.

Matt45 · December 2001

Idsman-By "soft" I mean truly soft. Dockers or casual dress pants and boat shoes, the shirts must be the Army Nat'l Guard embriodered variety of which each recruiter must pay for his own, but is also able to select from a variety of styles and colors.I'm not even positive AR 670-1 is in full effect judging from the Air Force hair-do's I see. (Sorry all you USAF personnel, but I call 'em like I see 'em)

Reserving my Right to Arm Bears!!!!

Military recruiter

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