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Pistol in Bedside Gun Safe -- What Condition?
Gordian Blade
Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was thinking of posting this in "Ask the Experts" but I decided it might make a good "General Discussion" topic.
Like many Americans, I was late to the party on firearms, but after 9/11 I'm trying to make up for lost time. I've read a lot of information about firearms for home security. The majority opinion is in favor of pump shotguns, but significant minorities favor pistols and even carbines for that task. So in my typical overkill fashion, I have at least one of each. But one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to store a rifle or shotgun in a safe manner (we have kids and they have friends) but also so that they can be accessed and ready to go quickly in an emergency. After viewing a video from the NRA, I decided that a loaded pistol in a small bedside gun safe (bolted inside the cabinet of a bedside table) would be the quickest thing to access. Having the pistol, if I had some time I could then deploy the shotgun. I figure about 3-5 seconds to open the gun safe and access the pistol, versus 30-60 seconds to get the shotgun shells and key from spot A, then go to spot B and take the shotgun from its hiding place, unlock it, and load 6 shells into the magazine.
To add some information, the pistol is a S&W 5906 9mm. It has a safety/decocking lever (some call it a "suicide switch") and it can be fired DA or cock the hammer manually and fire it in SA mode with a lighter trigger pull. My plan is to keep it fully loaded (including one in the chamber) with JHP self-defense ammo with the safety off, but not cocked, so it will be DA on the first shot. In my mind this is the closest condition to a loaded revolver, since in both cases you just take the gun and give the trigger a strong pull to fire the first shot. I know this may not be the optimum pistol for home defense, but I needed one pistol to fill a number of needs (in NY State each pistol needs a separate permission to buy from a judge) and I have confidence that this particular one is reliable. At least, I've had no problems with it at the range.
So the discussion is as follows: First question, is my basic pistol-then-shotgun strategy sound, or are there holes in it? Second question, what condition should be pistol be in when it is stored in the gun safe?
Like many Americans, I was late to the party on firearms, but after 9/11 I'm trying to make up for lost time. I've read a lot of information about firearms for home security. The majority opinion is in favor of pump shotguns, but significant minorities favor pistols and even carbines for that task. So in my typical overkill fashion, I have at least one of each. But one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how to store a rifle or shotgun in a safe manner (we have kids and they have friends) but also so that they can be accessed and ready to go quickly in an emergency. After viewing a video from the NRA, I decided that a loaded pistol in a small bedside gun safe (bolted inside the cabinet of a bedside table) would be the quickest thing to access. Having the pistol, if I had some time I could then deploy the shotgun. I figure about 3-5 seconds to open the gun safe and access the pistol, versus 30-60 seconds to get the shotgun shells and key from spot A, then go to spot B and take the shotgun from its hiding place, unlock it, and load 6 shells into the magazine.
To add some information, the pistol is a S&W 5906 9mm. It has a safety/decocking lever (some call it a "suicide switch") and it can be fired DA or cock the hammer manually and fire it in SA mode with a lighter trigger pull. My plan is to keep it fully loaded (including one in the chamber) with JHP self-defense ammo with the safety off, but not cocked, so it will be DA on the first shot. In my mind this is the closest condition to a loaded revolver, since in both cases you just take the gun and give the trigger a strong pull to fire the first shot. I know this may not be the optimum pistol for home defense, but I needed one pistol to fill a number of needs (in NY State each pistol needs a separate permission to buy from a judge) and I have confidence that this particular one is reliable. At least, I've had no problems with it at the range.
So the discussion is as follows: First question, is my basic pistol-then-shotgun strategy sound, or are there holes in it? Second question, what condition should be pistol be in when it is stored in the gun safe?
Comments
~Secret Select Society Of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets~
SSG idsman75, U.S. ARMY
"Respect my authority"
I like the way your fierarms are displayed on the wall.
By the way were do you live and what time do you go to work?
Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
I employ the same tactic (I used to keep it leaning next to the wall by the bed, but I've got Junior now...), but I use an AK47 with a 40 round mag inserted (loaded with 10 soft points, 10 FMJ's, 10 incendiary, and 10 tracer coming out of the barrel in that order...you never know!), safety off, no round chambered.
I've got a rechargeable Streamlight Stinger duct-taped to the foregrip. (I ain't paying $75 for a light mount that does the same damn thing as two feet of duct tape!)
I also keep my cocked and locked Springfield 1911A1 on the nightstand. Since it's my CCW weapon, it is always within arm's reach: No worries with the kid on that one. I'm a light sleeper, so I'll have ample time to get ahold of the 1911 then retrieve the AK from under the bed.
"The AK47. When you absolutely, positively gotta kill every MFer in the room, accept no substitutes!"
Stand And Be Counted
It sounds like you have a plan.The only thing that might be missing is a DOG.Me and my better half just adopted a terrier mix from the city pound.We are going on three weeks with him and he is growing
into a pretty good early warning system.He is also growing into a wonderful companion for both of us.A good dog,I'm sure,would also be welcomed by your children.
Gordian, put the shotgun in your 'safe room' (along with a phone) with its ammo and load it after you have taken up residence. Every home defense plan should include a safe room where you will retreat to and await developments. In addition to the supplies mentioned (gun, ammo, phone) this room should have a solid locking door.
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
Lets see if I can make a point here, I'm not good at it but I will try. First off, let's forget all the macho crap that we all like to play and be serious, we all know we aint gonna get up and shoot a 1/2 " group between someones eyeballs with that target model pistol you have, don't forget we are talking bedroom so unless your a nightowl or up to no good while the kids are outside, it's probably dark in there. Now some big ugly dude just broke into your house while you are laying there dreaming of Pamela Anderson naked on the beach with you. You get woke up hearing him crashing thru your house and wet yourself, you start to get scared and the last thing on your mind is that nickel plated .45 that you won the IPSC with last week, you are trying to figure out what the hell that noise is. Now you realize this big crack monster is in your house and he may want to hurt you, he sure aint there to be social. First instinct is to hide behind your wife, if she is anything like mine, when woke up in the middle of the night she would scare Frankenstien to death. Now your going nuts trying to remember what to do, you grab the pistol from the night stand, heaven forbid you need a combo to a safe right now! You got the gun but you are shaking trying to stay calm, dude walks into your door, all you see is a hardly visable outline, you stick the gun out in front of you and empty the mag, you winged him and made him mad, now you need a fresh mag but guess what, it's not where you wish it was! You may end up in big trouble here! Now if you had a good shotgun, when you saw that outline, all you needed to do was point at it and squeeze, dude now regrets breaking into your home.
We can all sit here and say what we would do but fact is, most people cannot and will not stay calm enough to shoot a pistol well in a dark and scary enviroment after getting woke up in the middle of the night. Yes some people can stay calm and focused but not everybody. Pistols have their place and so do shotguns, I agree with Massad Ayoob, when your scared shitless and cant see, you need a weapon that don't care how good of a shot you are. I'm not taking a chance that I will be as good of a shot in that situation as I may think I am on paper.
And Shootist, like I said. I do believe that shotgun will spread alot more that 1". I also use that gun for bunnies and at very close distance and low brass #6s it is quite impressive. The only problem I will have is the same one that Evil will have, any bbs that don't hit the bad guy, will go thru my drywall like like it was butter. Evil better hope he only needs one or two shots because if it turns into a big 'ol firefight and he does some missing, his neighbors won't like him anymore. Although I bet tracers would look cool at night going thru the house!
Shoot straight!
Like in the NFL, defense is the key.
A great rifle with a junk scope,....is junk.
Very true!
For the record, my home is set up in such a way that the backdrops of any corridors or paths a bad guy would take to get at me or my family are safe. My neighbors have nothing to fear from my AK.
I went with the AK instead of the 'ole 870 Police because I'm more concerned nowadays about 0300 BATF "visits" than I am about a common thief. Hence, the AK on steroids. I've got several thirty-rounders for the AK loaded the same way minus the tracers near the bed...just in case. :-)
Stand And Be Counted
Don't interpret that to mean a dislike for a shotgun as a primary home defense weapon, it is what I use, just be aware that you are not going to cover a door way with pellets - you will still need to aim.
I use the following load for my shotgun, 1st round up is 7&1/2's followed by 2 000 buck followed by 2 slugs. At household ranges, 7 & 1/2's will put an intruder down, if for some reason it doesn't, the next 2 000's will be able to penetrate an interior wall or most furniture (assuming the BG has taken cover and is returning fire (or armed and refusing to surrender). If he has taken cover behind something more substantial, the slugs will penetrate a refrigerator!!
However, despite the loading, I would NOT attempt to 'clear' the house, looking for the BG. As the LEO's here will advise, one man alone cannot safely clear a house (or even a room). Retreat to you safe room and call for backup.
Some advise that a shotgun is not the best for home defense because it protrudes and could be grabbed as you go around a corner - that is true BUT the answer is to not go around the corner!! As long as your family is safe, let the police (when they eventually arrive) chase the BG, you would not risk your family's only protection to save a TV set, would you?
Quod principi placuit legis habet vigorem.Semper Fidelis
Unfortunately, my house isn't very big so my wife and I made our bedroom upstairs. But, I am paranoid that if something happened my daughter would be downstairs alone. I do my "rounds" every single night, without exception, making sure that all the windows and doors are locked. And, we've got a Lady S&W .357 on her side and my Glock on my side. But, I still worry.....
Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
My wife woke me up early one AM because of a crash she heard on the first floor of our two floor Colonial.As I walked toward the hallway,Glock in hand,I just could not get my eyes to cooperate with me.Now I don't know if it was being woke up from such a deep slumber that had my eyes blurred and watery,or if it was the tremendous surge of adrenaline coursing through my veins.For the life of me I could not get a clear sight picture,even with the Glocks Trijicon night sights.See you can practice aimed fire,point shooting and do all the house cleaning drills you want but you never know how your body will react to such a stressfull situation.As I cleared the last couple of rooms and found the "Crash" to be a vase that had somehow vibrated its' way to the edge and off a floor speaker,I promised myself that I had to change something.That next morning I went out and bought myself a 12guage Mossberg Persueder with a pistol grip and a flashlight mounted under the barrel.With the shotgun I am more able to search and scan my surroundings without having to worry about hitting what I shoot at.I keep it in the same damn place I keep my home defense handgun(no I didn't abandon it entirely) except I mounted the Mossberg to the headboard with two rubber coated hooks.Needless to say we sleep a lot better now
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - Josey1 on 05/24/2002 16:02:25
"Respect my authority"
I am currently sleeping in my family room. I am the youngest person in my house, so I don't have a safe. I will get a large safe when I pick up a few more guns though.
I keep my SAR-1 loaded with JHP and at least one spare mag with FMJ on one side, and my Winchester 1300 on the other. I have my Ka-Bar stuck between the cushions of the couch in a manner that would allow me to draw it un-observed if someone was already that close. I am looking to purchase either a 1911 or a SIG in a month or so and will change my configuration some then.
worry at least a little.I think most of us do.And frankly,I think
it's healthy.You'll always be on your toes.
"Respect my authority"
You need to buy a Sense of Humor.
Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
Stand And Be Counted
I just stated the crapville stuff cause I'm finally gettin outta here. Plus I admire my wall too! Everybody does.
"Respect my authority"
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Edited by - Josey1 on 05/25/2002 08:08:50
If you confront the intruder directly- I like the 12ga. so I won't miss!
If you have others in the home (kids ect.) the 9mm might be the best choice because, if you find the intruder has one of the little ones, you can simply point at close range and hit the intruder in the head.
I practice this shot intensely at the range.
When Noah was building his arc, everyone kept telling him "Oh, your just paranoid", then it started to rain...
There are various ways to hide weapons. I hide my S&W .357 mag revolver (equipped with laser) on the top of my night stand in a large cut out phone book. I also like instrument cases. My 12 gauge 18" is hidden in a guitar "gig" case. Horn cases work good also. I like the shotgun for home defense. A shotgun pointed at you WILL get your attention. I would not recommend anyone using a pistol grip. I had one until I shot it. I couldn't hit my target and sold it at the next gun show. You'll be much more accurate with a gun that can be shouldered (including handguns). Controlling your weapon is EVERYTHING. Its also the reason I don't use magnum loads. If you can't hit your target, everything is else is just a loud bang. And the power 00 buck......think of it as a 9 round burst from a submachine gun hitting your victim all at once. I go for the hand gun only if the attacker is at my bedside. If a noise wakes me up, I have time to go for the shotgun and the wife takes the handgun to protect herself if I'm taken out. I highly suggest reading books from Massad Ayoob. I am much more prepared now regarding self protection and home defense.
Vipereater
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
Vipereater
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
My SAR-1 is relatively short and light and I've got 40 shots.
My Mosin-Nagant is heavy and a bolt-action. A 7.62x54 soft-point from short range would produce a dinner-plate sized hole in his middle. It also has a big honker of a bayonet, which is probably a great weapon all on it's own (I sharpened it . Sort of like a medieval polearm.
ADFree: Just so you know, every JHP I've ever used in 7.62x39 doesnt expand very well. I cant tell if they do it at all, to be honest. It's a very small hollow. Maybe if I drilled it out more and stuffed soap in there it'd expand better.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878