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As long as you're not engraving "Big Daddy Bullzeye's Killin' Machine" on the side of your SAR-1, you're not going to face any more criminal liability than if you were to use a shotgun.
Use what you're best with, wether it's an AK or a shotgun, but don't select your defense weapon based on what may or may not happen in a courtroom after the fact.
"ADFree: Just so you know, every JHP I've ever used in 7.62x39 doesnt expand very well. I cant tell if they do it at all, to be honest. It's a very small hollow. Maybe if I drilled it out more and stuffed soap in there it'd expand better."
I didn't think they would expand much. I figured JHPs would have a slightly less chance of over-penetrating the walls and getting one of my neighbors.
Evil,I really do not like it either but this is a fact of life in this day and age.To ignore this fact would be self destructive as what is true with all self defense shootings,shooting is the easy part but afterwards is when the trouble starts.There is a reason that Masaad Ayoob gets$5,000-$20000 as a expert defense witness.An AK-47 is a FANTASTIC firearm but it is by no means the best choice for home defense.You must recognize the inherant legal nightmare shooting someone with an AK-47 will bring,this is not opinion this is a fact of todays society.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
The only way I could reduce the risk to my neighbors (apartment) via overpenetration or total miss would be to back myself up into my bathroom across the hall from my bedroom. I am surrounded on three sides by neighbors. I never hear them because our walls are so well-insulated but I am constantly debating between the Glock 23 with Glaser Safety Slugs or the Mossberg 835 with light target loads. If I shot someone in self-defense in my own apartment, would they confiscate ALL of my guns pending the investigation?
Yes, they would. Keep dating the Chief's daughter though...otherwise store some gear offsite. Don't forget the ammo, cash and a change of clothes. You never know.
Josey:
I see your point, but I still disagree. If you're involved in a clean shoot, you'll either be nailed to the wall or let go depending on your locale. Choice of weaponary is irrelevent.
Again, customization of the firearm is all that will get you in trouble. No "Rambo" or "Fecalator" engravings on the firearm, please. Also, take down all the signs on your fence that say "Trespasser's will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.", etc. Put up a "Beware Of Dog" and call it a day.
You're either on every mailing list on the Net or you have a knack for research, Josey. I'm not sure which.
However, I'd challenge you to put your resources to work and find me some good old fashioned case law where the guy was hung out to dry on a clean shoot simply because of the legal (no M79's, Josey!) weapon he selected to do the job with.
If you can post even one link, I'll buy the beer if we ever meet.
RugerNiner, I have no idea why. If you go back up to the post in question, you will realize that that part of the post is in parentheses. Bullzeye posted the stuff about the soap.
here his part of a quote from 7mmnut. It seems fairly accurate but I see an excellent chance of a sad ending. Fear can make you see things that are not there.
"Lets see if I can make a point here, I'm not good at it but I will try. First off, let's forget all the macho crap that we all like to play and be serious, we all know we aint gonna get up and shoot a 1/2 " group between someones eyeballs with that target model pistol you have, don't forget we are talking bedroom so unless your a nightowl or up to no good while the kids are outside, it's probably dark in there. Now some big ugly dude just broke into your house while you are laying there dreaming of Pamela Anderson naked on the beach with you. You get woke up hearing him crashing thru your house and wet yourself, you start to get scared and the last thing on your mind is wet yourself, you start to get scared and the last thing on your mind is that nickel plated .45 that you won the IPSC with last week, you are trying to figure out what the hell that noise is. Now you realize this big crack monster is in your house and he may want to hurt you, he sure aint there to be social. Now your going nuts trying to remember what to do, you grab the pistol from the night stand, heaven forbid you need a combo to a safe right now! You got the gun but you are shaking trying to stay calm, dude walks into your door, all you see is a hardly visable outline, you stick the gun out in front of you and empty the mag"
you can be sure your mind will be moving at light speed. While waiting for the monster to open your bedroom door you may even think of all the wonderful posts you will be able to put on this bulletin board. You can imagine yourself a hero for doing what you have been talking about for such a long time. you are finally going to get that opportunity you were so sure was coming.
You will probably wonder for the rest of your life whether it was the unearthly noises coming from your wife or the flash of the gun that lit up the little face of your son that made you realize the awful truth. Where you imagined the monsters coming down your hall, he imagined monsters in his closet and was coming to you for help. Bumping into things along the way.
It should be obvious that you have not had to protect your family against a mortal threat up until now and the odds that you will need to do it in the future are extremely low. Give some thought to the advice you have received here. You have at least one person suggesting you use a shotgun because your target will be hard to see or identify and it is best to use a weapon that does not require accuracy. There is one crazy idiot that suggest you use tracer rounds. That is white hot phosphorus and there may be no better way to set your house on fire or maybe your neighbors. At the least that would bring help (the fire department).
You have the right to bear arms, you also have the right to live with the result of their use. Reality can be a real *.
Guardian505, you make some good points, there are a lot of stories in the news about someone who shot an "intruder" only to find out it was a family member who was either drunk or fooling around or whatever. There are also lots of stories about people who defended themselves against real intruders. And there was a recent story near me about a murdered young woman who didn't have a firearm to defend herself, for whom a call to 9-1-1 was tragically ineffective for various reasons (mostly police mishandling of the incident). Who knows if she would still be alive if she had a gun and was prepared to use it?
The town where I live used to be very safe when I was a kid. People would leave home for hours and not bother to lock their doors. Things have been slowly changing over the years, now we have rare (so far) incidents of guns brought to school, a case of a child pornographer luring girls from the middle school my son attends, drugs, burglaries, and assaults. The major city in my county, within about an hour's walking distance of my house, has increasing incidents of drug-related murders. So I don't think I'm wrong to take prudent precautions.
Now, to allay your concerns, which I appreciate in the spirit they were given, I wake up very quickly and completely in an emergency (comes with having kids), and I never do anything without thinking it through completely and having the facts. Neither my wife nor I are prone to taking pot shots at things that go bump in the night, and we keep our weapons safely stored against unauthorized use. As for some of the others posting here, they'll have to make their own determinations whether their preparations are more harm than help.
PS -- I don't think tracer ammo is such a great idea either.
"There is one crazy idiot that suggest you use tracer rounds. That is white hot phosphorus and there may be no better way to set your house on fire or maybe your neighbors. At the least that would bring help (the fire department)."
Well, call me crazy. You'll notice, if you read what I posted, that the tracer rounds in my SAR are the last ten rounds that will be coming out of the weapon.
If I have not eliminated the threat(s) with the previous 30 rounds in the magazine, then a house fire is the least of my worries.
If nothing else, I'll set the kevlar-wearing bastards on fire.
I am pleased you took my post in the spirit to which it was intended. I have never advocated gun control only "For every right there is a responsibility". You sound like a very responsible person. Because of that, my post was unnecessary for you but maybe it will give pause for thought from some of the more radical members. Probably not!
Comments
As long as you're not engraving "Big Daddy Bullzeye's Killin' Machine" on the side of your SAR-1, you're not going to face any more criminal liability than if you were to use a shotgun.
Use what you're best with, wether it's an AK or a shotgun, but don't select your defense weapon based on what may or may not happen in a courtroom after the fact.
Live to fight another day.
Stand And Be Counted
I didn't think they would expand much. I figured JHPs would have a slightly less chance of over-penetrating the walls and getting one of my neighbors.
"If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
Why would you stuff a hollow point with Soap?
Is it so you produce a Clean Wound?
just kidding.
Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.
Yes, they would. Keep dating the Chief's daughter though...otherwise store some gear offsite. Don't forget the ammo, cash and a change of clothes. You never know.
Josey:
I see your point, but I still disagree. If you're involved in a clean shoot, you'll either be nailed to the wall or let go depending on your locale. Choice of weaponary is irrelevent.
Again, customization of the firearm is all that will get you in trouble. No "Rambo" or "Fecalator" engravings on the firearm, please. Also, take down all the signs on your fence that say "Trespasser's will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.", etc. Put up a "Beware Of Dog" and call it a day.
You're either on every mailing list on the Net or you have a knack for research, Josey. I'm not sure which.
However, I'd challenge you to put your resources to work and find me some good old fashioned case law where the guy was hung out to dry on a clean shoot simply because of the legal (no M79's, Josey!) weapon he selected to do the job with.
If you can post even one link, I'll buy the beer if we ever meet.
Stand And Be Counted
BTW, that "clean wound" joke was amusing.
"Lets see if I can make a point here, I'm not good at it but I will try. First off, let's forget all the macho crap that we all like to play and be serious, we all know we aint gonna get up and shoot a 1/2 " group between someones eyeballs with that target model pistol you have, don't forget we are talking bedroom so unless your a nightowl or up to no good while the kids are outside, it's probably dark in there. Now some big ugly dude just broke into your house while you are laying there dreaming of Pamela Anderson naked on the beach with you. You get woke up hearing him crashing thru your house and wet yourself, you start to get scared and the last thing on your mind is wet yourself, you start to get scared and the last thing on your mind is that nickel plated .45 that you won the IPSC with last week, you are trying to figure out what the hell that noise is. Now you realize this big crack monster is in your house and he may want to hurt you, he sure aint there to be social. Now your going nuts trying to remember what to do, you grab the pistol from the night stand, heaven forbid you need a combo to a safe right now! You got the gun but you are shaking trying to stay calm, dude walks into your door, all you see is a hardly visable outline, you stick the gun out in front of you and empty the mag"
you can be sure your mind will be moving at light speed. While waiting for the monster to open your bedroom door you may even think of all the wonderful posts you will be able to put on this bulletin board. You can imagine yourself a hero for doing what you have been talking about for such a long time. you are finally going to get that opportunity you were so sure was coming.
You will probably wonder for the rest of your life whether it was the unearthly noises coming from your wife or the flash of the gun that lit up the little face of your son that made you realize the awful truth. Where you imagined the monsters coming down your hall, he imagined monsters in his closet and was coming to you for help. Bumping into things along the way.
It should be obvious that you have not had to protect your family against a mortal threat up until now and the odds that you will need to do it in the future are extremely low. Give some thought to the advice you have received here. You have at least one person suggesting you use a shotgun because your target will be hard to see or identify and it is best to use a weapon that does not require accuracy. There is one crazy idiot that suggest you use tracer rounds. That is white hot phosphorus and there may be no better way to set your house on fire or maybe your neighbors. At the least that would bring help (the fire department).
You have the right to bear arms, you also have the right to live with the result of their use. Reality can be a real *.
...from my cold dead fingers!!
The town where I live used to be very safe when I was a kid. People would leave home for hours and not bother to lock their doors. Things have been slowly changing over the years, now we have rare (so far) incidents of guns brought to school, a case of a child pornographer luring girls from the middle school my son attends, drugs, burglaries, and assaults. The major city in my county, within about an hour's walking distance of my house, has increasing incidents of drug-related murders. So I don't think I'm wrong to take prudent precautions.
Now, to allay your concerns, which I appreciate in the spirit they were given, I wake up very quickly and completely in an emergency (comes with having kids), and I never do anything without thinking it through completely and having the facts. Neither my wife nor I are prone to taking pot shots at things that go bump in the night, and we keep our weapons safely stored against unauthorized use. As for some of the others posting here, they'll have to make their own determinations whether their preparations are more harm than help.
PS -- I don't think tracer ammo is such a great idea either.
Well, call me crazy. You'll notice, if you read what I posted, that the tracer rounds in my SAR are the last ten rounds that will be coming out of the weapon.
If I have not eliminated the threat(s) with the previous 30 rounds in the magazine, then a house fire is the least of my worries.
If nothing else, I'll set the kevlar-wearing bastards on fire.
To each his own.
Stand And Be Counted
The best home defense weapon is a 410ga. Pump Shotgun.
Remember...Terrorist are attacking Civilians; Not the Government. Protect Yourself!
NRA Lifetime Benefactor Member.