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GLOCKS.. What's so special?
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Member Posts: 168,427 ✭
I realize I am going to get slammed up, down, across and probably backwards for this.. but what the heck is so special about a Glock?
We went to a gun store today, and I asked to see a Glock... this was after I examined the Springfield 45.. (whhhhhhoooooooo NICE)
Imagine my surprise when I picked it up and found NOTHING...I told Classic it reminded me of a water pistol I used to play with.. all bleedin plastic.. 700 bucks for a piece of plastic?.. I think not.. Okay granted it may be a quality gun.. but I want something substantial in my hand.. something with some weight..and I dont like the safety on it.. Yucky.. *LOL.. Couldnt resist the yucky.. *L*..
So this is your chance guys.. let me know what the heck is so special about them.. now a Colt.. S&W.. Springfield.. oh yeaaaaaa..
Forgot to mention the Glock was a 45 as well..
Just my two cents worth..
Edited by - BlackRoses on 06/13/2002 18:24:34
We went to a gun store today, and I asked to see a Glock... this was after I examined the Springfield 45.. (whhhhhhoooooooo NICE)
Imagine my surprise when I picked it up and found NOTHING...I told Classic it reminded me of a water pistol I used to play with.. all bleedin plastic.. 700 bucks for a piece of plastic?.. I think not.. Okay granted it may be a quality gun.. but I want something substantial in my hand.. something with some weight..and I dont like the safety on it.. Yucky.. *LOL.. Couldnt resist the yucky.. *L*..
So this is your chance guys.. let me know what the heck is so special about them.. now a Colt.. S&W.. Springfield.. oh yeaaaaaa..
Forgot to mention the Glock was a 45 as well..
Just my two cents worth..
Edited by - BlackRoses on 06/13/2002 18:24:34
Comments
I Refuse to be a VictimGrumpy old man
when you pull the trigger.
JBB
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them.
Edited by - jdb123 on 06/13/2002 18:41:50
Well, even as a huge Glock fan I'll admit that they don't have the same appeal as a nice 1911. But, again, they're light, reliable, easy to breakdown and clean and can withstand a lot of abuse if necessary.
As our old friend Dano might say, "The "ONLY" bad thing about owning "A GUN" is....not owning two or more!"
Gun Control Disarms Victims, NOT Criminals
As for the Glocks being ugly.. yes, I admit they are..but they have an appeal for a lot of people and I was wondering just what that appeal was.. accuracy? weight?.. or is it like Harley Davidson.. name appeal?...
They run and go bang?????????? Come on..!!!!!!
Save, research, then buy the best.Join the NRA, NOW!Teach them young, teach them safe, teach them forever, but most of all, teach them to VOTE!
A lot of people are not mechanically inclined; they don't want to think, "Is the safety 'on' or 'off'?" "Is the hammer cocked?".
People like the idea of just loading a magazine, putting it in the gun, chambering a round by racking the slide (something EVERYONE knows how to do already from seeing it in movies), and pulling the trigger. It's a simple A B C gun--that's reason for the popularity.
And for those of us more "into guns"; there's the quality, the durability, and overall mechanical simplicity--it is a "form following function" designed gun.
I like my Glock.
I can depend on it. Yes it's ugly in it's own right but so is a tank, but it's performance that counts. I have several pistols/revolvers and the glock shoots the best for me. The tenifer finish is indestructable, the barrel groves are quite differant, which is the beauty part of it.
The glock has 3 safteys and the stories you hear of one going off by itself are just cover stories. OH!- a glock will fire under water ( not to be used for fishing though).
To each their own!
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
"It was like that when I got here".
Gun control is hitting your target
They kept writing these torture test articles and saying the Glock was tough and reliable out of all proportion to their expectations. They were talking shooting rounds by the hundred thousand. They were talking dropping it from a helicopter 30 feet off the ground. They were talking 6 months in salt water. They were talking throwing sand and dirt all over it. They talked about trying to scratch that impervious black slide finish.
And, much like the Kalashnikov, it always still fired reliably. They also talked about the lower slide profile and the polymer grip making for less felt recoil, and the rather novel method of rifling the barrel. Then there's the fact that every round has the same 5.5 lb. trigger pull; no double/single segue to worry about. People began pressuring Glock for more calibers, and more sizes. They couldn't keep up with the demand. The .45 compact was one of the most highly-anticipated (and slowest to market) guns of its time.
I bought my first Glock 17, and I've been buying and trying them ever since. They are unusual-looking but all business. I don't care if Berretas or Colts are prettier. The Glock 30 may be the ugliest model of all - it's very blocky. The full size .45 and 10mm are impressive and handsome, but I like compacts, so I kept buying smaller models in bigger calibers, until I finally settled on a G27 with Trijicons for easiest carry in the most situations.
I'm not averse to other brands, but when I first started buying Glocks they were $200 or more cheaper than a Sig or a Smith & Wesson, for example. They were a solid value given the reputation vs. the price.
I think it depends on how you get started. I didn't start on the government model. I shot revolvers a bit, and the occasional war relic. The Glock was my second serious defense handgun, after a Charter Arms Bulldog Pug .44 I bought because it also was a big punch in a compact package. The Glock, however, has never hurt the web of my hand, though I've shot it a lot more than the Pug.
I also have a nice Star PD, my second one, which I know isn't "the same" as a 1911, but I like it a lot and so did the critics for a long time. I recently bought a PT145 Taurus that is almost exactly the same size as my G27 but shoots 10 rounds of .45 ACP and fits most of my G27 holsters if the triggerguard area is relieved.
So I'm not a Glock purist, but as everyone says, they work and they're great tools to bet your life on. The more you shoot them, the more confidence they instill. You begin to think less about "plastic" and more about how solidly it operates and how well the follow-ups aim.
It's not as unique now, maybe, given the mag restrictions and the competitors' polymer-framed guns, but I still have a number of hi-caps for mine and the Glock is still cleverly simple and reliable to operate with few controls needed. By contrast, a review of the Walther claims it's a whole different drill.
And the polymer science is taking off, so there are many new entries in many markets, including the Land Warrior system. I do understand the attraction of fine metals in a gun, and the beauty of the engineering design of many of them. But the Glock is lightweight, carries all day without dragging you down or gouging you, has no sharp edges (I use an emery board to touch the corners of the mag release just a bit) and you know it will go boom when needed.
Glock was not alone, of course. Stoner came from the aircraft industry and started using polymers on the early ARs too (after he got past the fragile Bakelite stuff). All because they're strong, weather resistant, need little care, and make for a lightweight product.
This is not to say there will be as many polymer collectibles in 50 years as there will be steel and alloy fine heirlooms. Frankly, one of the dangers of plastics is that they can dry out over time and become brittle, so we'll have to see what these guns are truly made of in the long haul. But again, they're tools. My two-tone Star PD is the more likely heirloom.
But I do know that if I were betting my life on a gun in a sustained situation, the Glock would likely hold up to a lot of shooting, where my old Star PD needs a new shock buffer every 200 rounds or so and only holds 6+1 per mag anyway. My Bulldog is a nice backup, but for putting a lot of fire down, the Glock, with extra mags, will hold up to the abuse. That's not to say it's the only gun that will perform well; but it's one that will.
I like Glocks, but there are other guns I'm just as interested in. I don't believe in taking sides on guns unless we're talking Jennings or Hi-Point or maybe some of the old non-customized Detonics jam-o-matics. But I can tell you the Glock shoots and shoots, and you'll never forget to flick off the safety just when you need it most.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
If I knew then, what I know now.
cbxjeffIt's too late for me, save yourself.
...from my cold dead fingers!!
lets all be responsible! shoot a criminal! Remember 0% of firearms pull there own trigger!
I believe it's plant 5 on Tibbs. Don Nix is his name. My stepfather,
Leo Nix, retired from there in 74 with a medical retirement due to heart trouble. I'm sure you know some of the people down this way that worked or work up there as well.
I am not one for "appearance" in the gun I use.. but more of what feels "right" in my hand...There are already a few I just dont like the feel of.. the Colt Police Positive.. and the Glock to name two..
I also dont like the weight or lack of with the Glock.. but for firing and accuracy.. well that is an area I wont comment on but leave it for later when I do fire the Glock..
This is for 4GodandCountry.. that was the price in the gun shop we went to... actually 695.00 for the compact 45... Other models were higher.. but that was the lowest price..
Thanks again everyone..
One woman's opinion
BlackRoses--I own a Glock simply because it feels good in my hands. Who was the last person here to take a chemistry class? Plastic Vs. Polymer....DISCUSS
Anyhow. Every trigger pull feels the same which can be critical in a stressful situation. You don't have a double-action and then a single action pull. You don't have a single-action pull when you are poised to squeeze off a round in double-action and accidentally discharging that round too early. Yes, even the most highly-trained can encounter a situation like that when the trigger pull is not the same EVERY TIME you pull the gun from the holster.
Hmm...the gun FEELS right (not flimsy and cheap when there is a loaded magazine in the well), it goes bang every time I pull the trigger, it points incredibly well for me and it is accurate. Who cares if it is black?
Of course I have a 21 and a 30 (both .45) ... but we wont go there ...
On the serious side, they are simple, rugged, dependable, reasonably accurate and safe ... those 5 points cover a lot of shooters needs ... even if they are BUTT UGLY!
=================================
The only bad thing about choosing a Kimber ...
... there are so darn many models to choose from!
kimberkid@gunbroker.zzn.com
Edited by - kimberkid on 06/15/2002 09:28:03
? otherwise, you'll find an excuse.
Lord Lowrider the LoquaciousMember:Secret Select Society of Suave Stylish Smoking Jackets She was only a fisherman's daughter,But when she saw my rod she reeled.
Charlie the Glock lover
"It's the stuff dreams are made of Angel"NRA Certified Firearms InstructorMember: GOA, RKBA, NJSPBA, NJ area rep for the 2ndAMPD. njretcop@copmail.com
doing up the paper work, when the fellow standing next time started sighing and shaking his head. He then told me about how the gun I was buying was all wrong, a plastic piece of junk sure to melt if left in a car on a hot day, and was a simplistic gun designed for stupid police officers. The gunsmith then walked out of the back and greeted the guy by name. The fellow pulled out his 1911 and began telling the gunsmith how it needed MORE work, that the gun kept stovepiping and this didn't work right and that was a bit off and so on. Hmmmm, I thought to myself.
Keep in mind also that Glocks have something like 35 parts and that they can be fixed by simply replacing the broken part. Something breaks--and we all know how rare that is with a Glock--and a new part simply has to be dropped in. With a 1911 the gunsmith will have to spend hours carefully fitting this and that into place.
Glocks are pure and simple functionality. They work well, are well thought out, and are extremely simple to shoot and clean. They are everyman's pistol, and the 1911 snobs just hate how happy and content we are with them.
But seriously, you're right about the amount of fiddling some other guns need. I've had a number of 1911-based variations and among the weak points is always the mag feed lips. Ever had a gun where the top round pops out when it's not supposed to? Then there's the old story about loading Hi-Power mags one round less than maximum for reliable action. The guys in Nam used to say they loaded their M-16 mags 4 rounds under 20, by the way, to keep the springs from wearing out. Lots of guns are great, except for a weak point or two, which can be a killer. I have sold perfectly good guns because their mags were poorly designed, or they were hard to strip in the field, or, or, or...
Glocks tend to hold up equally well on all counts.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
"If you ain't got pictures, I wasn't there."
Margaret Thatcher
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
Mark Twain
The Glock was designed to win the Austrian military pistol contract, and did so going away. (It beat my beloved Steyr GB badly.) The simplicity of operation, high magazine capacity and light weight find favor with may user groups. I do not think the simple operation means those who favor them are too simple to handle a more complex handgun. Simplicity is almost always a virtue. Of course, that simplicity allows any idiot who knows you pull a trigger to fire a gun to be able to shoot a Glock with no safety to first defeat. To me, that feature makes the Glock less desirable for law enforcement use, not more, because most cops are shot with their own snatched guns as I understand it. Ayoob did a study on this issue years ago and found many saves attributable to an activated safety, and no cases where an officer failed to fire due to inability to operate the safety under stress.
I think Glocks are probably the most reliable handguns ever designed. Looks has nothing to do with function, but I find Glock looks consistent with their rugged function. There is a certain beauty in their functional design. Whether Glocks will be collectable in the future is irrelevant to their purpose. However, I find interest by Glock lovers in my early M17 with the smooth grip frame and its box that will allow a cocked pistol to be placed in it. It is now 17 years old, older than some Glock lovers who now champion the design. It has malfunctioned once on a reload, probably due to the lack of sufficient case crimp. (Reloads and Glocks BAD. KABOOM sometimes!)
That said, I do not like Glocks for the reasons I have stated before. At the top of my dislike list is the grip angle. I prefer the M1911 angle. Another poster found the grip angle to be to his liking over the more common M1911 angle. I like an active, manual safety, which the Glock does not have.
I have a M21 that I bought when they came out to get 13+1 rounds of .45ACP. My love of a high capacity .45 did not overcome the things I do not like about the Glock. Now I have a Para-Ordnance LDA 14-45 and have 14+1 rounds of .45ACP in a M1911-style pistol with an active safety. With an extended floor plate on a pre-ban .45 magazine, the magazine capacity can be increassed up to 16 rounds! The latest LDA pistols have ambidextrous safeties, as I think all guns should. I am waiting for an alloy frame with a stainless slide and other parts on the 14-45. Then I want the 6-45 LDA with an alloy frame and stainless parts. Both would be close to ideal for me. Come on P-O, get with it! Why do you refuse to do this simple thing?
Ms. BlackRoses, if you like the feel of a heavy handgun, you will not like the Glocks. Apparently, you like the M1911-style pistols the best. I suggest you take a look at a Para-Ordnance LDA. I really like them and I think you might as well. Weight issues aside, the stainless LDA 14-45 is a beauty.
I gather you do not carry if you like heavy handguns. Correct? If you do carry heavy handguns, how do you carry? Probably off-body if weight is not an issue?
I really havent decided which handgun I prefer, I am still in the process of trying them all.. I admit I do like the Colt 1911A1, the 38 Detective Special, and I do like the Beretta hand guns as well.. I had heard so much about Glocks, and wondered why they were so liked... I admit I like the weight in my hand, but it also has to "feel" like its part of me.. something I didnt experience with the Glock.. nor have I had that with the Police Positive..nor the CZ.. there are a number of guns I dont likr strictly because they dont feel right in my hand..
I also dont carry right now as I havent found one I truly prefer over any other, plus I am very new to handguns and am taking my time deciding which one to claim as "mine"
I will try the one you suggested, as well as many others before I decide... Classic told me when I first used a handgun, that it should feel like an extension of my arm...I have found that to be true with a few, others have not felt like they even belong in my hand..
Glocks are ugly granted, but I have only handled the compact 45.. and I do not judge on appearance alone..and to answer the question about carrying off body.. I will be doing both.. in my purse and on my person if I can find the right holster... I am still looking for a bra holster.. I did see a pic of one, liked the style.. It had a holster for a small automatic attached to the bra, just under the arm and forward a bit...all reports claimed to be very comfortable..
One woman's opinion
You are doing the right thing. Try everything. You need to find someone like me who is trying to get one of everything and then you can compare many different guns for feel and firing efficiency in your hands.
I am surprised that you do not like the Police Positive if you like the Detective Special. They are the same butt frame (unless the PP was REALLY old), although perhaps you tried a later DS with the larger stocks, and the PP was an older one with the small stocks.
For a bra holster, you will probably want to consider one of my favorite carry guns, the Kel-Tec P32. It weighs only about 6.5 ounces empty, and is very small and flat. (I am talking about the Kel-Tec now!)
My secretary carries in her purse, and originally carried a steel Smith J-frame. Even though the J-frame is a relatively small and light gun, especially compared to the ones you are considering, she could really notice the weight in her purse. What with all the other "essentials" in there, the J-frame just added too much. She now has a Kel-Tec P32 in there, and does not even know it is there. (She has a holster purse, which I recommend.)
True, the P32 is not as powerful, but a J-frame with hot loads is a difficult gun to control, recoil is fierce, and blast is substantial. The P32 avoids all that as the tradeoff for less power. Because of how difficult it is to shoot the J-frame with defense loads, she feels more confident with the P32. She almost went with a Kel-Tec P11 in 9x19, but the extra weight put her off again.
My personal preferences on the size-weight-power continuum are:
NAA Mini-Revolver .22LR
Kel-Tec P32
Colt Pony Pocketlite (carry a 7-round Mustang magazine for backup)
Kel-Tec P11 (carry a 17-round Mec-Gar/S&W magazine for backup)
Steyr GB (with 19 rounds, does one need an extra magazine?)
Para-Ordnance LDA 14-45 (with 14-round magazine with 2-round extension)
or (not sure which, keep going back and forth)
H-K USP .45 (with 12-round magazine with 3-round extension)
USAS-12 with 20-round drum
Barrett M82A1
(Opps, did it again! The last two are NOT handguns!)
I choose these over anything else available at any price. They best fit my needs. Others have different preferences. I urge you to try them in your search. However, be careful of the Steyr GB. It will ruin you for any other full-size pistol, if you can live with the 9x19 power level. (I can.) What a pistol!
Remember, it is acceptable to have more than one gun for different purposes and carry methods. (If you can carry the GB in your bra holster, I am sure the males here would all like to meet you!) It is also acceptable to change your mind. Most of us have changed carry guns over the years as our needs and the guns available changed. (All those who have only carried a cocked-and-locked M1911-pattern pistol since 1911, no need to respond! You know who you are.)
Keep us posted on your progress.
SUBMARINE SAILOR,TRUCK DRIVER,NE'ER DO WELL, INSTIGATOR,AND RUSTY WALLACE FAN
Buy a 1911 style .45. These POS Glocks have been around 100 years and are still working I might consider buying one for my dog.
KC
P.S. Remember, double action and double action only (?) pistols are the solution for a problem that didn't exist.