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Israel attacks USS Liberty in 1967 war
allen griggs
Member Posts: 35,690 ✭✭✭✭
During the 6-Day War of 1967 Israel attacked the spy ship Liberty, which was in international waters 13 miles off the coast of Egypt. The attack occurred in broad daylight at 2 pm. The ship was strafed and napalmed by jets. Then the ship was machine gunned by PT boats of the Israeli navy. One torpedo was fired at the Liberty and it blew a 40 foot hole in the ship. Thirty five Americans were killed. During the attack the ship was flying an enormous American flag. This is the fickle and treacherous ally we send 3 billion dollars a year to. Check out the story in first hand accounts by the US sailors who survived on the web site, USS Liberty.com
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
Edited by - allen griggs on 08/12/2002 10:15:31
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
Edited by - allen griggs on 08/12/2002 10:15:31
Comments
Best!!
Rugster
You guys have convinced me, it was definitely done on purpose. The Israelis were experts on Air/Sea operations, never had an incident of friendly fire in the history of Israel going back to Joshua, never misidentified a ship at sea, and couldn't care less about pissing off their biggest supporter. It was all done because the Liberty had secret information that Israel had mounted a pre-emptive strike planned days in advance. Only 2 billion other people knew that.
Rugster
Edited by - Rugster on 08/12/2002 11:36:05
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
Edited by - allen griggs on 08/12/2002 11:30:43
Best!!
Rugster
Alan, this country is within a year of sending a vast number of soldiers to Iraq to remove the threat from an insane Arab dictator.
The Iraqi army has vowed to fight it out from the roofs and windows of Baghdad. And under humanitarian regulations, the US cannot besiege the city. Saddam has also made it amply clear that he will use his nukes, germ bombs, or mustard gas on invading troops if he thinks his stock will be destroyed.
Even the early predictions suggest that a lot of young men will fight and die to topple the reign of Saddam Hussein.
It is once again time to redefine your loyalties.
I dont care what you think of Ariel Sharon, Israel, or Jews in general (although I can probably guess). Because it really doesnt matter.
The Arabs would like nothing better than you slit your throat, rape your wife, and burn this whole f***ing country to the ground in the name of Allah.
You cannot ride the fence on this issue. We are on the cusp of proving to the world once again that Arab militancy and terrorism will not be tolerated.
If you support the Arabs you are basically saying "I hope they kill our soldiers. I hope they destroy our country. I hope they get whatever they want. Because I'm such a self-loathing Liberal son of a b**** that I dont care anymore."
So where do YOU stand, Alan?
http://pnews.org/art/1ussliberty.shtml
But if your mind is made up, don't bother. However, I would like to correct a factual mistake made above. Israel did apologize and pay reparations.
I bet a lot of Iranians still think it was intentional that we shot down their airliner.
As for cover-ups, the military attitude in the 50s and 60s was much more rigid during the cold war. There were no briefings like we enjoy today, with sincere folks like Rumsfeld coming out and spilling the beans on this or that.
Back then, the military spokesmen considered everything secret, and matters of national security, and when they got in front of a news camera they look intensely uncomfortable, stiff, and basically you could tell they were lying through their teeth every time their lips moved. The military spokesmen in those days were astonishingly poor public speakers, and you could tell they were giving you the "line." Those of you who are not old enough to remember those "briefings" don't know quite how bad it used to be. They covered EVERYTHING up back then. It was a way of life, a stand-off between the U.S. military and the American public/news outlets.
I'm not saying we have no disingenuousness today, I'm sure we do, but you didn't have generals gleefully explaining tactics and operations in detail, with maps and video, as we do today. Nor did they easily take responsibility for screw-ups, friendly fire incidents, crashes, soldiers accidentally falling out of helicopters, and that sort of thing. Believe it or not, they have learned to tell a little more of the truth than they used to, in order to avoid the "hounds of investigation." At least in the more minor of cases, or in the more blatant of accidents.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
Are you going to answer it?
Or should I judge from your purposeful silence that you've already put the diaper on your head and made your decision?
However, the manner in which you phrase your question (either you are for Arabs or you are against Americans) depicts an immature thought process. As you get older, you'll realize that the black and white issues you hold today become more grey (it's called wisdom). We'll patiently watch and hope for the best.
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
However, the manner in which you phrase your question (either you are for Arabs or you are against Americans) depicts an immature thought process.
Oh, is that so? Well, how's this for an immature thought process: The VAST majority of the Arabs in the world would like nothing better than to see the US burned to the ground and it's citizens dragged into the street and shot like dogs.
That's not hyperbole, that's not making assumptions, that's based on POLLING DATA IN ARAB COUNTRIES!
"Do you hate the US?", "Do you hate Americans?", "Do you support Osama bin-Laden?", "Do you think America deserved the September 11th attacks?", "Do you support suicide bombings?".
The results were well over 80% YES in all Arab countries polled, except for Jordan (I believe), where it was in the 70s.
You can try and obfuscate the issue all you want. But the Arabs are the enemy. They admit it openly, they are proud of it, and they do not waver from it.
They are the enemy of the United States of America, and so they are MY enemy.
If you cant accept that, then you really ought to renounce your citizenship and move the hell somewhere else, because if do end up needing to reinstate the draft for the second war in Iraq, the idea of being forced to serve next to the likes of you would literally turn my stomach.
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
So no, you cant be my friend. And dont ask again.
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
I think it is abundantly clear to everyone that we, as the world's only current superpower, have remained friends with Israel even when they thumb their noses at us from time to time. Considering the fact that we would have little trouble laying waste to them, we can afford to be tolerant -- we are not bullies -- except when they directly attack a U.S. vessel and kill a number of U.S. nationals. That one has yet to be satisfactorily concluded. Of course the Somalians did it, but their warlords are not supposedly our friends. the Israeli government IS supposedly our friend. In fact, they count on that friendship, in the long run, for their continued existence.
The ironic part is that while "the enemy of our enemy is our friend," Arabs are our enemies many times because they dislike the fact that Israel is our friend. Yet they help solidify the alliance with their hatred of us despite the fact that we have no designs on their country and do not wish to take over their countries. That pretty darn moral of the only superpower, considering where all that oil comes from. Nazi Germany would not act toward the oil-producing nations as we have acted, given the power we could call upon if we wished to be bullies and empire-builders.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
In my opinion, and based upon my discussions with Arabs, US Ambassadors, Europeans, etc., the dislike comes from our unbalanced support for Israel. For example, our Foreign Military Arms sales program precludes using the weapons we give, repeat give, for offensive use. Try getting the Pentagon to explain how the Israelis can use the aircraft, bombs, rockets, tanks, etc., against the Palestinians OUTSIDE Israel without penalty. I requested, in writing, an explanation over 25+ years ago--am still waiting for an answer!
So, it seems to me, and others, that there is a valid, justifiable reason to be suspicious of US policy with reference to the Middle East.
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
They intended to prevent anyone from knowing who started the fighting in Syria & incense the American people against Egypt. Two birds with one stone.
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
If there was any reason to create a Jewish state then it should have been carved out of Germany. They deserved it, that would have been their punishment & there would have been no need for reparations after that.
What did the Palistinians do to deserve the disaster that has befallen them? The Third Reich lasted only 12 years, the Palistianians have suffered for 55 years & there is no end in sight.
Please help me to understand, are you indicating that the attacks of 9-11 were justified because we have supported Israel.
FYI - The U.S. and the world has sent and spent BILLIONS to help the Palestinian people. However, their "leaders" believe it is better to fan the fires of hatred than itis to make life better for their people by improving their standard of living.
Boomer
"Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
The Arabs hate us, gee, I wonder why?
Spoken like a true socialist.
I can bend on most issues, but those kinds of statements really honestly make me sick.
I wonder if you'd feel different if one of your sons got the call to fight in Iraq?
No, you'd probably pack up the car and head to Toronto, wouldnt you?
"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
Rugster
As for the Liberty, the last thing I want to do here is argue about the Liberty. Allen, the only reason anyone questions the testimony of the sailors is that all they can say is how it appeared to them, not what orders were being radioed to the Israeli pilots, why they were attacking, or what they were thinking. I don't for a second doubt the testimony of the sailors. It's just that all the testimony on the raid has not seen the light of day. It would be nice to have the whole file -- i.e., all the reports from all sides, including the actual reportage of the governments involved. With a cover-up, one looses a large chunk of the truth. I'd like, now, to know the whole story, so that we could know WHY.
- Life NRA Member
"If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
I guess what I'm saying is that there is a small possibility(granted an exceptionally small one) that misidentification may have been the cause of the butchering of our American sailors by the Israeli airmen. I too don't remember anything but F-4s attacking the Liberty. I believe a real torpedo hit on a ship of that size would have resulted in immediate sinking. I think the torpedo boats came out after the attack and just looked the ship over..."Yep it's American...boy did we f*** up!!!!" Beach
Yes I am American and I am veteran too.
Beach: Is that a big enough hole for you? Also check the reports of the PT boats machine-gunning the life rats.
It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
Senator Adlai Stevenson III in 1980, his last year as a United States
Senator from Illinois, invited Jim Ennes to his Senate office for a
private, two hour meeting to discuss the USS Liberty attack and
cover-up. Following the private meeting, Ennes was invited back the
next day to discuss the attack with members of Stevenson's staff, along
with members of the staff of Senator Barry Goldwater and members of the
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
In that meeting, staff members told Ennes that they found his story
convincing, but that they would recommend to both senators that they not
pursue an investigation because an investigation would only antagonize
Israeli interests while "nothing good could come of it."
Goldwater accepted that staff recommendation. Stevenson did not.
Instead, Stevenson called a news conference in which he announced that
he was convinced that the attack was deliberate and that the survivors
deserved an investigation. He would, he said, spend the remaining few
weeks of his Senate term attempting to arrange for an inquiry.
Almost immediately, the government of Israel contacted the White House
and offered to settle the outstanding $40-million damage claims for
$6-million -- an amount equal to one dollar for each Jewish victim of
the Holocaust.
Vice President Walter Mondale quickly agreed to that offer just before
Christmas while Congress and President Carter were on vacation. The
Department of State followed immediately with a press release, reported
on the front page of the New York Times, which announced, "The book is
now closed on the USS Liberty." Indeed, from that point on, it was
impossible to generate any congressional interest in the Liberty at all.
Senator Stevenson's staff told me later that they felt the settlement
was directly related to Senator Stevenson's announced plan to hold an
inquiry, and was engineered to block forever any inquiry plans.
Israel did subsequently pay $6-million in three annual installments of
$2-million each. Secretary of State Dean Rusk said later that he
considered the payments meaningless, as Congress merely increased the
annual Israeli allotment by that amount.
Adlai Stevenson later ran for Governor of Illinois. He was strongly
opposed by Israeli and Jewish interests. He lost. Many feel it was his
support for the Liberty that cost him the election. Many also feel it
was Stevenson's experience with the Liberty that has intimidated other
Members of Congress who might otherwise support the survivors.
And while were on the subject let me just say, * happens in war! It's not like we the US, haven't blown something up on accident. Christ, look at Vietnam. I wonder what really happened in the Gulf of Tonkin. Oh, and didn't the US Navy blow a civilian jet liner out of the sky some years ago? How easily we forget.
Edited by - elmos608 on 08/14/2002 01:54:30