In order to participate in the GunBroker Member forums, you must be logged in with your GunBroker.com account. Click the sign-in button at the top right of the forums page to get connected.

Israel attacks USS Liberty in 1967 war

allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,690 ✭✭✭✭
edited August 2002 in General Discussion
During the 6-Day War of 1967 Israel attacked the spy ship Liberty, which was in international waters 13 miles off the coast of Egypt. The attack occurred in broad daylight at 2 pm. The ship was strafed and napalmed by jets. Then the ship was machine gunned by PT boats of the Israeli navy. One torpedo was fired at the Liberty and it blew a 40 foot hole in the ship. Thirty five Americans were killed. During the attack the ship was flying an enormous American flag. This is the fickle and treacherous ally we send 3 billion dollars a year to. Check out the story in first hand accounts by the US sailors who survived on the web site, USS Liberty.com

"Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

Edited by - allen griggs on 08/12/2002 10:15:31
«1

Comments

  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    The Goverment must have kept that one hushed,I consider myself a Novice US.Military Historian.But I havent heard that one,I guess thats why I am a Novice Military History (lover)thanks for the information.

    Best!!

    Rugster
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This was not hushed up, it was big news in 1967, you just had to have been old enough then to be paying attention.

    You guys have convinced me, it was definitely done on purpose. The Israelis were experts on Air/Sea operations, never had an incident of friendly fire in the history of Israel going back to Joshua, never misidentified a ship at sea, and couldn't care less about pissing off their biggest supporter. It was all done because the Liberty had secret information that Israel had mounted a pre-emptive strike planned days in advance. Only 2 billion other people knew that.
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I guess not being born until 1971 I wasnt around to hear about it.What was the US response to this aggression?

    Rugster

    Edited by - Rugster on 08/12/2002 11:36:05
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,690 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Johnson and McNamara covered it up. Six of the sailors were buried together in a sort of "unknown soldier" mass grave at Arlington, this was a jumble of body parts of guys blown to bits, they knew these 6 were on the ship but there wasn't anything big enough to id. On that headstone it gives the sailors' names and says, "Died in the eastern Meditteranean". Doesn't give the name of the ship or say a thing about the action in which they died. Survivors regard this headstone as indication of a coverup.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."

    Edited by - allen griggs on 08/12/2002 11:30:43
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I kind of thought that may be the case.Thanks.

    Best!!

    Rugster
  • dads-freeholddads-freehold Member Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    greetings, i remember and i also remember that isreal never apoligided for the incident or made any attempt to make it right. not that i think thereis a way to make it right outside of the arrest and trial of those responcible,it was ordered at the highest level of the isrealie government. and yes johnson and company did cover it up, infact the troops over seas were not informed until they returned to the us. respt submitted dads-freehold
  • BushobiBushobi Member Posts: 107 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I remember the Liberty Incident..was in the navy then..even talked to some of my comrads from the incident...also learned that Israel was about to get a payback from Uncle Sam. that made bagdad looks like kindergarten recess...but Uncle sam called back all the jets and bombers about five minutes before they dropped their payload...and you are correct they never did applogize....
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Some people are just too ignorant and Liberal to reach...

    Alan, this country is within a year of sending a vast number of soldiers to Iraq to remove the threat from an insane Arab dictator.

    The Iraqi army has vowed to fight it out from the roofs and windows of Baghdad. And under humanitarian regulations, the US cannot besiege the city. Saddam has also made it amply clear that he will use his nukes, germ bombs, or mustard gas on invading troops if he thinks his stock will be destroyed.

    Even the early predictions suggest that a lot of young men will fight and die to topple the reign of Saddam Hussein.

    It is once again time to redefine your loyalties.

    I dont care what you think of Ariel Sharon, Israel, or Jews in general (although I can probably guess). Because it really doesnt matter.

    The Arabs would like nothing better than you slit your throat, rape your wife, and burn this whole f***ing country to the ground in the name of Allah.

    You cannot ride the fence on this issue. We are on the cusp of proving to the world once again that Arab militancy and terrorism will not be tolerated.

    If you support the Arabs you are basically saying "I hope they kill our soldiers. I hope they destroy our country. I hope they get whatever they want. Because I'm such a self-loathing Liberal son of a b**** that I dont care anymore."

    So where do YOU stand, Alan?
  • RosieRosie Member Posts: 14,525 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Give em hell Bull!
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    If you want to read something that supports the contention that the attack was unintentional, you can start here:

    http://pnews.org/art/1ussliberty.shtml

    But if your mind is made up, don't bother. However, I would like to correct a factual mistake made above. Israel did apologize and pay reparations.

    I bet a lot of Iranians still think it was intentional that we shot down their airliner.
  • seamusseamus Member Posts: 96 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    This wrongful attack actually did get quite a bit of press at the time. A few years later, about 1974 as I recall, I worked with a federal law enforcement colleague who had previously served in the Navy. He was one of those who survived the attack on the Liberty. He worked on intercepting encrypted electronic signals (signals intelligence or SIGINT). His story convinced me that the Liberty was well marked as a U.S. Ship, and that previous intercepted Israeli military messages confirmed that the Israelies knew the Liberty's position and status. According to my colleague, the first thing the Israelies targeted and destroyed was the Liberty's radio tower. Fortunately, the Liberty was able to get off a quick distress message, sent in the clear (en clare), which various American vessels and stations picked up. The Israelies also picked up these distress signals, and therefor they stopped their attack, as they had apparenly hoped to destroy the ship before it could alert other American forces that it was being attacked by Israeli jets! The crew of the Liberty believed that if they had not sent the message before the Israelies destroyed the ships antenna, the attack would have continued until the Liberty was sunk. It is believed that the Israeli intention was to prevent the U.S. from monitoring the Israeli attack on the Arabs, and thus prevent the U.S. from seeing through the well crafted Israeli propaganda concerning their "justifications" for the conflict. Just to set the record straight, the Israeli government did apologize, but they claimed that the attack was caused by a military mistake, and said that those responsible would be delt with. No action against any Israeli military commanders was taken, however, apparently because the Israeli military was only following the orders of their civilian leaders. So, in the end, nothing was done about it. I do not think my colleague mentioned anything about the Israli PT boats taking part, and I do not recall ever hearing about that part of the attack.
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Whatever you think about the intentions of this or that party to the Liberty mess, there is no question that it was a SNAFU in many aspects. It appears that air support being called back was a plain and simple U.S. military mistake due to inadequate intelligence about what was taking place, the location and identity of the ship. There is no reason why the U.S. would have had any more trouble covering up a few dead Israelis due to U.S. air defenses than they did the dead Americans. I don't think the planes were called back for any reason other than SNAFU. Meanwhile, everyone on the ship said it was plain the Israeli pilots were close enough to see them face to face, and see their flag, and continued to attack regardless. Not the best moment for US-Israeli national relations.

    As for cover-ups, the military attitude in the 50s and 60s was much more rigid during the cold war. There were no briefings like we enjoy today, with sincere folks like Rumsfeld coming out and spilling the beans on this or that.

    Back then, the military spokesmen considered everything secret, and matters of national security, and when they got in front of a news camera they look intensely uncomfortable, stiff, and basically you could tell they were lying through their teeth every time their lips moved. The military spokesmen in those days were astonishingly poor public speakers, and you could tell they were giving you the "line." Those of you who are not old enough to remember those "briefings" don't know quite how bad it used to be. They covered EVERYTHING up back then. It was a way of life, a stand-off between the U.S. military and the American public/news outlets.

    I'm not saying we have no disingenuousness today, I'm sure we do, but you didn't have generals gleefully explaining tactics and operations in detail, with maps and video, as we do today. Nor did they easily take responsibility for screw-ups, friendly fire incidents, crashes, soldiers accidentally falling out of helicopters, and that sort of thing. Believe it or not, they have learned to tell a little more of the truth than they used to, in order to avoid the "hounds of investigation." At least in the more minor of cases, or in the more blatant of accidents.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,690 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Gordian, your information is coming from articles published in The Jerusalem Post. Do you suppose them to be a fountainhead of truth about this incident?

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • Gordian BladeGordian Blade Member Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I didn't say anything other than it supported the contention that it was not intentional, so it's the other side from yours. I've read both sides and I don't think either side is the fountainhead of truth, as both have rather large axes to grind. Truth, as we all know, is the first casualty of war. Personally, I favor SNAFU as the simplest explanation.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,690 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    There was a program last night on the History Channel which discussed this incident. They interviewed 7 or 8 survivors of the Liberty, as well as 2 Israeli officials. The sailors were unanimous in their belief that this was a deliberate attack. There were 12 reconnaisance flights made by Israeli aircraft the morning of the attack. The sailors saw the star of David on the tail of the planes, and the aircraft flew circles around the Liberty, so close the sailors could see the faces of the pilots, and they waved at the Israeli pilots, who in turn waved back at them. At that time there was an American flag flying from the ship. This dispels the contention of The Jerusalem Post that there was no flag flying. The Israelis, with one of the top intelligence operations in the world, would have had no doubt as to whose ship that was. Once the attack began, by jets that had no markings, sailors ran up a huge US flag on a different flag pole. It is the unanimous contention of the crew that the Israelis were trying to sink the ship. One American survivor said that the torpedo hit one of the I beam supports of the vessel, which caused the torpedo to stop and explode prior to entering the hull. He said that had the torpedo hit one foot to either side it would have gone inside the ship and virtually blown the ship in two. I am not sure why the veracity of these American veterans would be brought into question by members of this forum. On the day of the attack Syria had asked for peace with Israel. The US was in favor of immediate peace. However, Israel wanted the war to continue a bit so that they could get the Golan Heights. Israel knew that the Liberty was gathering intelligence which would make their intentions obvious in Washington. It is the best estimate of the survivors that this was a deliberate attempt to destroy the Liberty, and leave no survivors to tell the tale.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    I asked you a question, Alan.

    Are you going to answer it?

    Or should I judge from your purposeful silence that you've already put the diaper on your head and made your decision?
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Bullzeye: As you know, I disagree with your unilateral support for Israel but respect your right to it. I support the Palestinians and their right to a state.

    However, the manner in which you phrase your question (either you are for Arabs or you are against Americans) depicts an immature thought process. As you get older, you'll realize that the black and white issues you hold today become more grey (it's called wisdom). We'll patiently watch and hope for the best.

    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    quote:
    However, the manner in which you phrase your question (either you are for Arabs or you are against Americans) depicts an immature thought process.

    Oh, is that so? Well, how's this for an immature thought process: The VAST majority of the Arabs in the world would like nothing better than to see the US burned to the ground and it's citizens dragged into the street and shot like dogs.

    That's not hyperbole, that's not making assumptions, that's based on POLLING DATA IN ARAB COUNTRIES!

    "Do you hate the US?", "Do you hate Americans?", "Do you support Osama bin-Laden?", "Do you think America deserved the September 11th attacks?", "Do you support suicide bombings?".

    The results were well over 80% YES in all Arab countries polled, except for Jordan (I believe), where it was in the 70s.

    You can try and obfuscate the issue all you want. But the Arabs are the enemy. They admit it openly, they are proud of it, and they do not waver from it.

    They are the enemy of the United States of America, and so they are MY enemy.

    If you cant accept that, then you really ought to renounce your citizenship and move the hell somewhere else, because if do end up needing to reinstate the draft for the second war in Iraq, the idea of being forced to serve next to the likes of you would literally turn my stomach.
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,690 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Bullzeye, I don't think you meant all those mean things you said about me. You called me "ignorant, liberal, diaper-head, in favor of destruction of America." We may not see eye to eye on this issue, but can't we be friends?

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    Alan, I'm signing The Paper at the end of this week/beginning of next week. Based on my MOS and training I fully expect to end up in Iraq when the call comes. I'm fully expecting that the US is going to lose a lot of tough young men to take out Saddam, and I'm aware that one of them may be me.

    So no, you cant be my friend. And dont ask again.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Bulls: Please cite the source for your statistics. Thanking you.

    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Diaper-head. I'll have to add that to my list. Allen, that show was a re-run, and I've seen it too. They did a very good job of laying out the events step by step. I believe that because the ship was on an intelligence mission, the actually ran the flag up the pole as the action began. I think they also laid a second flag out on the deck. The nagging question still in everyone's mind is why the Israelis did not stop the attack once the ship was clearly identified. Assuming the Israelis got lucky because U.S. air power turned back on a fluke, why did the Israeli attack continue. I'm not actually asking, because I think the question is rhetorical. Your answer will form your opinion of the motives of the Jewish state at the time. I do not believe the Israelis were above attacking an American intelligence vessel close to its shores for nationalistic reasons. I'm not sure what that means about the way things should be today. I just don't know the current "significance" of what happened to the Liberty in '67, other than that it is certain the U.S. response was expedient but dishonorable to the men who died aboard her.

    I think it is abundantly clear to everyone that we, as the world's only current superpower, have remained friends with Israel even when they thumb their noses at us from time to time. Considering the fact that we would have little trouble laying waste to them, we can afford to be tolerant -- we are not bullies -- except when they directly attack a U.S. vessel and kill a number of U.S. nationals. That one has yet to be satisfactorily concluded. Of course the Somalians did it, but their warlords are not supposedly our friends. the Israeli government IS supposedly our friend. In fact, they count on that friendship, in the long run, for their continued existence.

    The ironic part is that while "the enemy of our enemy is our friend," Arabs are our enemies many times because they dislike the fact that Israel is our friend. Yet they help solidify the alliance with their hatred of us despite the fact that we have no designs on their country and do not wish to take over their countries. That pretty darn moral of the only superpower, considering where all that oil comes from. Nazi Germany would not act toward the oil-producing nations as we have acted, given the power we could call upon if we wished to be bullies and empire-builders.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Offeror: I think your comment that the Arab countries dislike us because Israel is our "friend" is somewhat mistaken.

    In my opinion, and based upon my discussions with Arabs, US Ambassadors, Europeans, etc., the dislike comes from our unbalanced support for Israel. For example, our Foreign Military Arms sales program precludes using the weapons we give, repeat give, for offensive use. Try getting the Pentagon to explain how the Israelis can use the aircraft, bombs, rockets, tanks, etc., against the Palestinians OUTSIDE Israel without penalty. I requested, in writing, an explanation over 25+ years ago--am still waiting for an answer!

    So, it seems to me, and others, that there is a valid, justifiable reason to be suspicious of US policy with reference to the Middle East.

    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    There was also a secondary purpose in attacking the Liberty. I recall when we first heard of the attack that the news reports said it was attacked by the Egytians. This disinformation was spread by the Isralies as they already knew in advance of the attack & were prepared to blame it on Egypt. This is why they had the PT boats machine-gunning the life rafts so that there would be no survivors.
    They intended to prevent anyone from knowing who started the fighting in Syria & incense the American people against Egypt. Two birds with one stone.
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    I proudly stand with Bullzeye on this matter. Why is this 35 year old event being discussed at this time? We are at a point in history when our resolve as a free and democratic people are being tested, and our existence threatened. Our young men are soon to go into harms way because a group of cowardly bastards attacked us for our beliefs. For those of you that want to link our assistance to Israel over the years as some sort of twisted valid reason for the attacks of 9-11 are no better than the cowards that attacked us. Some of you really need to decide were you stand on this.

    Boomer





    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Sorry, don't mean to confuse you with the facts. Bottom line is we have been in the wrong on this issue for 55 years. The Arabs hate us, gee, I wonder why?
    If there was any reason to create a Jewish state then it should have been carved out of Germany. They deserved it, that would have been their punishment & there would have been no need for reparations after that.
    What did the Palistinians do to deserve the disaster that has befallen them? The Third Reich lasted only 12 years, the Palistianians have suffered for 55 years & there is no end in sight.
  • BoomerangBoomerang Member Posts: 4,513
    edited November -1
    Gruntled - I AM NOT CONFUSED ABOUT THESE FACTS, THEY ARE JUST IRRELAVANT TO THE COWARDLY ATTACKS OF 9-11.

    Please help me to understand, are you indicating that the attacks of 9-11 were justified because we have supported Israel.

    FYI - The U.S. and the world has sent and spent BILLIONS to help the Palestinian people. However, their "leaders" believe it is better to fan the fires of hatred than itis to make life better for their people by improving their standard of living.

    Boomer


    "Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as it is by the obstacles which one has overcome while trying to succeed."NRA Life Member
  • BullzeyeBullzeye Member Posts: 3,560
    edited November -1
    quote:
    The Arabs hate us, gee, I wonder why?


    Spoken like a true socialist.

    I can bend on most issues, but those kinds of statements really honestly make me sick.

    I wonder if you'd feel different if one of your sons got the call to fight in Iraq?

    No, you'd probably pack up the car and head to Toronto, wouldnt you?
  • allen griggsallen griggs Member Posts: 35,690 ✭✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    This mideast situation is confusing to me.The story of the US veterans of the Israeli attack on the Liberty is disbelieved by many on this forum. Why these sailors would lie about this attack has not been explained.We are told that almost all Arabs are our enemies. I remember when that wasn't so, when we stationed US troops in our Arab ally, Saudi Arabia. That was so Americans could die to liberate the Arab state of Kuwait. That was just 11 years ago. Of course, in 1981 we sent millions of dollars in military aid to fundamentalist Muslim fighters in Afghanistan. Members of congress stood on the Senate floor and spoke words of praise about our military ally, the mujaheedin of Afghanistan.The middle east is a confusing mess to me, and I am glad that some of you have got it figured out. It looks like to me that any country over there will buddy up to America when it suits their needs. Then when it suits their purpose, they will turn around and kill Americans.

    "Not as deep as a well, or as wide as a church door, but it is enough."
  • NighthawkNighthawk Member Posts: 12,022 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    BullZEYE you sound like a true Patriot God BLess.

    Rugster
  • offerorofferor Member Posts: 8,625 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Pardon me, but as easy as it sounds to say "carve a Jewish state out of Germany," and I agree it sounds perfect if all that mattered was good real estate -- there's one slight problem with German. Jerusalem isn't in it. It's not holy land for Jews.

    As for the Liberty, the last thing I want to do here is argue about the Liberty. Allen, the only reason anyone questions the testimony of the sailors is that all they can say is how it appeared to them, not what orders were being radioed to the Israeli pilots, why they were attacking, or what they were thinking. I don't for a second doubt the testimony of the sailors. It's just that all the testimony on the raid has not seen the light of day. It would be nice to have the whole file -- i.e., all the reports from all sides, including the actual reportage of the governments involved. With a cover-up, one looses a large chunk of the truth. I'd like, now, to know the whole story, so that we could know WHY.

    - Life NRA Member
    "If cowardly & dishonorable men shoot unarmed men with army guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary...and not by general deprivation of constitutional privilege." - Arkansas Supreme Court, 1878
  • 4GodandCountry4GodandCountry Member Posts: 3,968
    edited November -1
    Anyone who justifies the attacks on innocent civilians by the palestinians, al qeda or any other terrorist group is a giant hemoraging a-hole and a true P.O.S.

    When Clinton left office they gave him a 21 gun salute. Its a damn shame they all missed....
  • 13FOX13FOX Member Posts: 61 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    I agree with 4G&C, the dispicable acts of these barbarians cannot be justified by any past actions our nation has taken. The targeting of innocent civilians is an unacceptable way to confront an enemy under any humane standards. If this is the way they choose to confront their adversaries then they should expect no different treatment in return. I say fry them all, send them to their beloved alla and make their dreams come true.
  • beachmaster73beachmaster73 Member Posts: 3,011 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Most of you know how I feel on this issue...and it hasn't changed much since the last time we had a Donnybrook on the USS Liberty attack. And while I sometimes really enjoy spinning up certain unnamed individuals I'm not going to this time. I will relate a story from one of my experiences when our surface guys blew the hell out of a couple of Iranian oil platforms in the Arabian Gulf. One of our F-14's came back to the ship and was reporting a small flotilla of "high speed cigarette boats(read Boghammers)" heading toward the battle group. We started prepping a strike package and the skipper(an S-3 driver) even got the S-3 bubbas excited when he let them load cannister bombs and equipped them with a grease pencil bomb sights. I think the A-6 bubbas were so excited about the possibility of bombing mayhem that they were approaching an orgasmic state!!! Imagine the let down onboard when the TARPs F-14 overflew this approaching enemy "Boghammer" formation and reported they were nothing more than a bunch of fishing boats DIW with their nets out. The disappointment of the crew was near biblical. Of corse the idiot F-14 driver who reported the "Boghammers" was teased unmercifully for the remainder of the cruise.
    I guess what I'm saying is that there is a small possibility(granted an exceptionally small one) that misidentification may have been the cause of the butchering of our American sailors by the Israeli airmen. I too don't remember anything but F-4s attacking the Liberty. I believe a real torpedo hit on a ship of that size would have resulted in immediate sinking. I think the torpedo boats came out after the attack and just looked the ship over..."Yep it's American...boy did we f*** up!!!!" Beach
  • hobbisthobbist Member Posts: 176 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    I remember this story in the news and my first reaction was:" what f*** up!!!!". But it is not important today. What is important that some people have so much hatred to the country, which try to survive. And these people will find any justification for themselves to extend their opinion to others.
    Yes I am American and I am veteran too.
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    http://ussliberty.org/
    Beach: Is that a big enough hole for you? Also check the reports of the PT boats machine-gunning the life rats.
  • HAIRYHAIRY Member Posts: 23,606
    edited November -1
    Hey gruntled: They just don't want to understand, do they?

    It's not what you know that gets you in trouble, it's what you know that just ain't so!
  • interstatepawnllcinterstatepawnllc Member Posts: 9,390
    edited November -1
    This whole deal can be summed up as easy as this little analagy. Remember the cartoon "Tom and Jerry"? There was a BIG * dog who made appearances in many of the episodes. You did not want to WAKE UP or MESS WITH this BIG * DOG. If you did, as Tom found out on a few occaisions, you got the mortal crap stomped out of you. WE ARE THE BIG DOG and it is high time we assumed this role and stopped placating the rest of the world. End of story!!
  • gruntledgruntled Member Posts: 8,218 ✭✭
    edited November -1
    Adlai Stevenson supported USS Liberty

    Senator Adlai Stevenson III in 1980, his last year as a United States
    Senator from Illinois, invited Jim Ennes to his Senate office for a
    private, two hour meeting to discuss the USS Liberty attack and
    cover-up. Following the private meeting, Ennes was invited back the
    next day to discuss the attack with members of Stevenson's staff, along
    with members of the staff of Senator Barry Goldwater and members of the
    Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

    In that meeting, staff members told Ennes that they found his story
    convincing, but that they would recommend to both senators that they not
    pursue an investigation because an investigation would only antagonize
    Israeli interests while "nothing good could come of it."

    Goldwater accepted that staff recommendation. Stevenson did not.
    Instead, Stevenson called a news conference in which he announced that
    he was convinced that the attack was deliberate and that the survivors
    deserved an investigation. He would, he said, spend the remaining few
    weeks of his Senate term attempting to arrange for an inquiry.

    Almost immediately, the government of Israel contacted the White House
    and offered to settle the outstanding $40-million damage claims for
    $6-million -- an amount equal to one dollar for each Jewish victim of
    the Holocaust.

    Vice President Walter Mondale quickly agreed to that offer just before
    Christmas while Congress and President Carter were on vacation. The
    Department of State followed immediately with a press release, reported
    on the front page of the New York Times, which announced, "The book is
    now closed on the USS Liberty." Indeed, from that point on, it was
    impossible to generate any congressional interest in the Liberty at all.
    Senator Stevenson's staff told me later that they felt the settlement
    was directly related to Senator Stevenson's announced plan to hold an
    inquiry, and was engineered to block forever any inquiry plans.

    Israel did subsequently pay $6-million in three annual installments of
    $2-million each. Secretary of State Dean Rusk said later that he
    considered the payments meaningless, as Congress merely increased the
    annual Israeli allotment by that amount.

    Adlai Stevenson later ran for Governor of Illinois. He was strongly
    opposed by Israeli and Jewish interests. He lost. Many feel it was his
    support for the Liberty that cost him the election. Many also feel it
    was Stevenson's experience with the Liberty that has intimidated other
    Members of Congress who might otherwise support the survivors.
  • elmos608elmos608 Member Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    edited November -1
    Allen, this is old news, someone has already brought this event up. I hate it when people catch a show on the History Channel or Discovery and then act like it's big news and that they know all the fact. No one has ever told you to only believe half of what you see and hear?

    And while were on the subject let me just say, * happens in war! It's not like we the US, haven't blown something up on accident. Christ, look at Vietnam. I wonder what really happened in the Gulf of Tonkin. Oh, and didn't the US Navy blow a civilian jet liner out of the sky some years ago? How easily we forget.


    Edited by - elmos608 on 08/14/2002 01:54:30
Sign In or Register to comment.